Poobah On the Road to 405 with John Pinder.

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  1. no offense to poobah but go to www.irongame.com find someone with the same build as you and watch them deadlift.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    I'm new to deads but after watching your video, are you supposed to have a slight hunch or is the back supposed to stay ridged and straight through the motion? Also, at the top do you stop where you go or pull through and back stopping with the trap/upperback contracting?

    Not sharpshooting your form but i'm new and the only guidence i've had is looking at still pictures for form so I don't know if i'm adding more movement to the DL than I need to.
    Good questions, I suggest you do what guyfromkop2 suggests.

    As for me, I'm far from perfect.. but getting a bit better everytime outthere. As for the back, it definately doesnt' have to be perfectly straight, and frankly it's damn near impossible for someone with a long torso (like me). Although you do want to keep your head up and shouldes pointed for the sky as best as possible...

    I think my third rep in that video was pretty spot on (well for me at this point). The first rep, I got out over my toes a bit to much, which forced me to use alot of back, and I wasn't able to captilize on leg drive...

    I should also straighten up my lockout a bit more.. and when I'm pulling I should try to get a bit more on my heels, and almost pull back instead of up.

    But everyones different.. right now my weekness is upper end lockout, and John's going to work on that with me.. off the floor I'm strong.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Poobah
    Good questions, I suggest you do what guyfromkop2 suggests.

    As for me, I'm far from perfect.. but getting a bit better everytime outthere. As for the back, it definately doesnt' have to be perfectly straight, and frankly it's damn near impossible for someone with a long torso (like me). Although you do want to keep your head up and shouldes pointed for the sky as best as possible...

    I think my third rep in that video was pretty spot on (well for me at this point). The first rep, I got out over my toes a bit to much, which forced me to use alot of back, and I wasn't able to captilize on leg drive...

    I should also straighten up my lockout a bit more.. and when I'm pulling I should try to get a bit more on my heels, and almost pull back instead of up.

    But everyones different.. right now my weekness is upper end lockout, and John's going to work on that with me.. off the floor I'm strong.
    actually your body has to be locked out, hips and knees have to be locked, basically stand up straight and that's how you have to be

  4. Thanks, i've been adding deads and other lifts the last couple of months and the gym owner came over a couple of times throwing a couple of pointers my way but hell if I know if he's telling me good info or not

    I do know my weight went down by a good bit when he told me I wasn't to drop the weight between reps :P

  5. Friday - Chest

    Band Lockouts (approximately 6" off chest)

    2 #3 (blue) dbld x 5 (warm up)
    185 + 2 dbld blue's x 3
    185 + 2 dbld blue's x 3
    185 + 2 dbld blue's x 3
    190 + 2 dbld blue's x 3


    Lots of work, but solid performance.. No overtraining in sight as of yet.

    Lockouts (4" short of lockout and up)

    385 x 3
    395 x 2
    385 x 2.75
    380 x 3


    Third set, I lost balance a bit and ended up coming down... couldn't budge it after that. Grrrr... Over all good improvement though.

    Generally these keep surprising me at how quickly I loose stamina.. Still seems to be something in the shoulders that's giving it up first.

    External Rotator on Knee 9-12 oclock

    15 x 20 r
    15 x 20 l


    I can keep a better pace.. but these were harder then I thought they would be today.

    Propped External Rotator 6-12 oclock

    15 x 20 r
    15 x 20 l


    Also a harder then I expected??

    Shoulder stretches

    #3 (blue) band x 25


    Grip work with 200lb grippers

    4 sets each hand


    Love hate.. love hate.. No just hate.

    Cardio (Treadmill)

    30 minutes


    Got my ass to cardio only twice this week.. I should really try to get at least 3... Me bad.

    Conclusion:

    Good stuff... as I sit here, my chest has a nice dull ache to it.

    Also my formily sore back really felt alot better once I got moving some weights around. I'm 100% better right now.

    Peace.
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  6. Monday - Legs

    Squats

    275 x 20


    Probably biting off more then I can chew... I got 15, and could barely even stand there.. I was starting to lose balance, and oxygen was at a severe deficit. I had to hang it up for 30 seconds, as I gasped for some air.. got back under it and did 5 more. Probably don't count?

    What should I do next week?

    Hypers

    bw+10# x 20 x 2


    I tried some ghr's from the ground with ankles hooked on something... and damn it.. I couldn't even prevent my decent.. although I slowed it decently an the dude watching me said it looked like one of my hams were about to blow.. anyway, I ended up giving myself a little push with my hands as I tried like hell to pull myself up with hams.. but it's obvious I'm a very long way from doing these.. and again it's sort of like abs.. I have a huge proportion of my weight in my upper body.

    So on to with the hypers.

    Added 10 pound plate to my chest and got my first and second set without much of a rest pause.. although I couldn't do another rep in the second set.. I just died fall down, and had to rest a bit before getting off the machine.. lol

    Abductors

    180 x 25


    Up 10... but slow, and steady. Rest pauses on the last 5 or so.

    Adductors

    205 x 25


    I maxed out, plus added 15 pounds.. and I was still slamming these together pretty good up till near the end... at 20 my abs flared quickly... and because of that 21-25 proved to be a bit more challenging.

    Abs

    bw x 12
    bw x 8


    Did these the old fashion way... hooked my feet under a machine, and just did them the best I could.. sad I can only do 12 huh? I might stick with these.

    Seated Calves (45 degree Press)

    675 x 20
    675 x 17


    Moved up significantly... and I swear by the 20th rep and the 17 in the second set, it felt like my calves were just going to break in two. Just insane..

    Sadly after my first set, my cousin came in and informed me my grandfather passed away with in the hour. I did my second set, and called it quits.

    Conclusion...

    I think I'm improving well.. but I continue to disappoint myself, by not hitting my marks in a way that satisfy's me where the squats are concerned. I feel like i'm not doing very well. But in reality I'm doing alright, just not what I'd hope I would.

    The next days are now up in the air... wakes and funerals to be sceduled etc... I'll work around it as best I can. My grandfather died at the age of 93, of old age.. He truly did live a remarkable life. Everyone had a beer apparently after died today.. (9 sons and daughters.. etc.).

    peace.

  7. Sorry to hear about your grandfather Poobah.. I wish your family well with prayer.


    Oh and thats a lot of weight on calf raises....

  8. Quote Originally Posted by NiteHawk
    Sorry to hear about your grandfather Poobah.. I wish your family well with prayer.


    Oh and thats a lot of weight on calf raises....
    Thanks nite.. Visitation will be thursday and the funeral friday. When a man gets to 93, generally people aren't so sad to see him go.. Everyone of course is taking it very well.

    and for 20 damn reps it felt like a ton.

  9. Yes, 93 years is a good, long life.

    But yes, Im sure that weight felt like a ton.

    You still getting full reps up and down, right??

  10. Quote Originally Posted by NiteHawk
    Yes, 93 years is a good, long life.

    But yes, Im sure that weight felt like a ton.

    You still getting full reps up and down, right??
    first 15 yea.. but after that it gets touch and go... If was getting a full 20 with full range, I'd need to be doing more weight. Personally I don't mind falling off form a bit on the last few.

  11. Tuesday - Chest, shoulders, grip.

    Paused BB Bench

    320 x 3 (last forced)
    320 x 2
    315 x 3


    I think I'm hitting the over training wall.

    I got the first 2 of the first set completely on my own, no hands in site. But I needed a nudge in the third set. The second set, I failed to get 1 rep, and I reset and was able to get 2 with some assistance. Dropped down in the third set and got 3 but it was really tough.

    I'm not sure what it is... I am unstable for one.. Bringing the weight down all of a sudden seems much more difficult, specially the last 4" or so. My lift off has lost alot of it's former power... and everything just creeps along. My shoulders hurt.. my forearms hurt. And generally I run out of steam in a real hurry. I have a feeling this is what overtraining feels like..

    Paused DB Bench

    120 x 5 - All me
    100 x 7


    I wanted to use the 120's so I did.. I was happy with 5 considering how tapped I feel lately.

    Front Raises

    Blues - both hands - 10 x 2

    Side Raises

    Reds - One hand - 10 x 2

    Left arm continues to come around.

    Pull-a-parts

    Reds - 20 x 2

    BB static Holds

    365 x 0

    Man this pissed me off.. I could not even lift the bar off the rack longer then a second without my hands completely unravelling. On top of that, I couldn't even straighten my back... I felt like a little boy out there. I was not happy.

    Conclusion..

    Ruff day... felt weak.. I hate feeling weak. I took vids of the first 2 sets of flat bench, but forgot my camera. The guy that spotted me is huge, but short he could of swore I could bench 450 from looking at me... he says this cause he benches 405 for 12 reps.. I make the guy look like a dwarf, a very s trong and muscle dwarf.. but he's got me by a mile.

    I think I'm over trained right now, and about to take a step backwards? Whats to do?

  12. That's how I felt after doing WSB for 3 months, I took time off and now I'm feeling great and my lifts are wayyyyyy up.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by ktw
    That's how I felt after doing WSB for 3 months, I took time off and now I'm feeling great and my lifts are wayyyyyy up.
    I was warned that 4-5 weeks is usually the most people can take of band lockouts, before they over train thier chest... looks like my trainer was right.. (damn he's smart).

  14. Yah, for me about 5 to 6 weeks is where progress slows and overtraining sets in, especially when doing lots of heavy triples and such.

  15. The workload you've been doing would have buried me by now. You are going to want to take a week or two off and come back with lower volume.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    The workload you've been doing would have buried me by now. You are going to want to take a week or two off and come back with lower volume.
    Thanks for stopping in.. I'm honored. been watching your ugly mug now for a few years.

    SOunds good to me, but John won't have it.. he wants me to take my next chest day off, then adjust as follows:

    This coming Tuesday:

    Paused Bench off 2board 3x3reps
    Paused Floor Press 2x5reps
    Front raise w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Side raises w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Pull-a-parts 2 x 20reps
    Grip work static holds w/bb dbl overhand 4 sets

    Every other Tuesday:

    Paused bench w/bb. 3 x 3reps
    Flat db pause bench hammer grip 2 x 8reps
    Front raise w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Side raises w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Pull-a-parts 2 x 20reps
    Grip work static holds w/bb dbl overhand 4 sets

    This coming Friday:

    Board Press off 4 board 3x3reps
    Board Press off 5 board 3x3reps
    Seated Military Press 2x5reps
    Rotator work your choice
    Shoulder stretch w/band 25 reps
    Grip work, plate pinches 4 sets ea hand

    Every other Friday:

    Band lockouts off rack. 4x3 reps - 6 and up (middle finger)
    Lockouts off rack 4x3reps 4 from lockout and up.(prings)
    Rotator work your choice
    Shoulder stretch w/band 25 reps
    Grip work, plate pinches 4 sets ea hand

    --

    Basically, bands every other week now to cut down on OT... and a slight change to paused work, preventing me going right to bottom every other week. perhaps to prevent over training in the muscle in questions that are giving me problems lately at chest level. (but I'm just speculating here.)

    Do to the wake today, and family get togethers, I'll probably also have to take today off.. which is 4 days off.. till monday.

    Looks good.. can't wait to get at it.

  17. ya that would still overtrain me, thats a whole lot of heavy low volume high weight work.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ktw
    ya that would still overtrain me, thats a whole lot of heavy low volume high weight work.
    the same guy trains me(as you can tell from my log) and it's really not that much volume, all the accessory stuff isn't suppose to be super hard

  19. by volume i mean volume of high intensity low volume work like the heavy triples. id have to take a week off every 5 or 6 weeks at least. When I was on WSB my squat max moved from 275 to 285 in 3 months, but doing less heavy triples and singles and taking breaks has gotten my 10rm up to 275 and my max should be around 365, so I think for me going that low and intense all the time isnt a good idea. accesory work never really burns me out.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Poobah
    Thanks for stopping in.. I'm honored. been watching your ugly mug now for a few years.

    SOunds good to me, but John won't have it.. he wants me to take my next chest day off, then adjust as follows:

    This coming Tuesday:

    Paused Bench off 2board 3x3reps
    Paused Floor Press 2x5reps
    Front raise w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Side raises w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Pull-a-parts 2 x 20reps
    Grip work static holds w/bb dbl overhand 4 sets
    Out of curiosity, what percentage of your maximum are all those lifts at? I could see that working fine if it were laid out like so:

    Paused Bench off 2board 3x3reps (~85%)
    Paused Floor Press 2x5reps (~80%)
    Front raise w/bands 2 x 10reps (~70%)
    Side raises w/bands 2 x 10reps (~70%)
    Pull-a-parts 2 x 20reps (whatever)
    Grip work static holds w/bb dbl overhand 4 sets (whatever)

    Honestly the most important thing is that you not go to failure on more than maybe one heavy set per workout. You can go to failure on multiple 15-20 rep sets for conditioning purposes as well if you so desire. I also think it's a bad idea to go to failure on the same exercise more than once every two to three weeks. From looking at your log I would say you're just being slightly too aggressive with the weights you're using.

    Also, where's your back work man? I know you do deads but besides that? You should be hitting your back religiously...

    Quote Originally Posted by poobah
    Every other Tuesday:

    Paused bench w/bb. 3 x 3reps
    Flat db pause bench hammer grip 2 x 8reps
    Front raise w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Side raises w/bands 2 x 10reps
    Pull-a-parts 2 x 20reps
    Grip work static holds w/bb dbl overhand 4 sets

    This coming Friday:

    Board Press off 4 board 3x3reps
    Board Press off 5 board 3x3reps
    Seated Military Press 2x5reps
    Rotator work your choice
    Shoulder stretch w/band 25 reps
    Grip work, plate pinches 4 sets ea hand

    Every other Friday:

    Band lockouts off rack. 4x3 reps - 6 and up (middle finger)
    Lockouts off rack 4x3reps 4 from lockout and up.(prings)
    Rotator work your choice
    Shoulder stretch w/band 25 reps
    Grip work, plate pinches 4 sets ea hand

    --

    Basically, bands every other week now to cut down on OT... and a slight change to paused work, preventing me going right to bottom every other week. perhaps to prevent over training in the muscle in questions that are giving me problems lately at chest level. (but I'm just speculating here.)

    Do to the wake today, and family get togethers, I'll probably also have to take today off.. which is 4 days off.. till monday.

    Looks good.. can't wait to get at it.
    So you're trying for 405 raw I gather. What is your sticking point currently? The majority of your work should be aimed to bringing up the sticking point.

    If your strength has gone down lately, it'll take about two weeks before you'll be able to make any PRs again in all likelyhood. If you feel fine but your strength has been bad, one or two light workouts then returning to full speed with a slightly lower volume will work fine. If you feel fatigued, you will need at least a week of rest.

  21. I ended up getting my best gains from backing off and going light while focusing on form and the muscle worked. I hit my 405 bench when I got frustrated from not bumping past 385 and started working out with a buddy who had shoulder issues and never went over 225. I would stay at the weights with him and varied a lot of the workout based off that weight and under. One day walked in and after a couple of warm up sets I put up 405 once with what felt like little effort. I didn't continue because I was scared of shoulder injuries. I think it was about 3 weeks between the change up.


    Either way, good luck and keep up the good work but don't forget to know your body and respond.

  22. Yah I would be hitting the lats a whole lot more than that, and i agree with the posters above me completely, if you push yourself too hard sometimes you get less out than you put in.

  23. exnihilo i'll let poobah answer all your questions, but if you dont recognize the name of who trains him, he used to be exmgq over at ironaddicts board.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by guyfromkop2
    exnihilo i'll let poobah answer all your questions, but if you dont recognize the name of who trains him, he used to be exmgq over at ironaddicts board.
    Oh, no ****? Exmgq is a good guy. Hard as nails, just my type. At the very least he'll make you tough as hell.

    Still, listen to your body Poobah. If you feel "drained" all day after a workout or you just start to feel fatigued all the time, lower your volume, intensity or both slightly till you feel better. When I first started training with Ryan Girard and Max Higgins, I stagnated because I took the workout they set me up with and overdid the intensity. When I eased off slightly things started moving again...

  25. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Oh, no ****? Exmgq is a good guy. Hard as nails, just my type. At the very least he'll make you tough as hell.
    yes he is, he's over at teamsniffy.com if you ever want to stop by and say hi, his name is 11819-056
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