Tweaking my Diet - Having some questions...
10-13-2003 03:48 AM
Tweaking my Diet - Having some questions...
Ive been gaining mass for about two years now. I though about cutting, but Ive decided to go for another 20lbs (crowd goes wild!). Im more strict on my diet than Ive ever been, but I have a few questions to help tweak it for maximum lean gains.
Im 225, about 12ish% bodyfat. I know that in order to get to my goal weight of 245, and maintain a decent appearance, Ive got to minimize the chunk. The amount of calories Im going to have to take in will be in the neighboorhood of 4300 - 5000 per day on the 35/45/20 plan. At that rate, Im going to have to really specific about what Im eating and when Im eating it to achieve my goals, so without further ado:
1.)Most of my carbs come from Low GI sources like brown rice and oatmeal. The only sugar Im getting is from my NLarge2 shakes. I usually drink 1.5 servings (6 scoops) a day with 3 cups milk. (one after breakfast and two while Im at work). Is there a better gainer than NLarge in terms of complex carbs? Any good homemade recipes? I tried mixing ON Whey with powdered oatmeal, gave me stomach cramps. I dont mind drinking sludge, though.
2.)NLarge2 has 100mg of cholesterol per serving. So, just from the gainer Im getting 150mg a day, 50% of what I should be taking in(according to the FDA). Is this the 'bad/LDL' cholestrol or the 'good/HDL' cholesterol?
3.)Is the timing of the food Im getting in important. I know all about the window after training - but say my goal for carbs is 450g, and its 1am, and Ive only got 400g in so far. Is eating a bowl of oatmeal and 2 servings of mixed veggies along with my protien (usually canned tuna) right before bed a bad idea? Will the low GI carbs cause increased insulin?
4.)Speaking of insulin - Ive read that the body cannot produce HGH and insulin at the same time. Is this true?
5.)Is a spot fat reducer (like lipoderm-Y) of any use at all to keep fat minimized at problem areas while bulking, or is this just a pipe dream and waste of money?
6.)Is this book any good? http://www.musclebuildingnutrition.com/
I really want to get a little more scientific about my diet - right now, I write down everything I eat, do a good job of hitting the right macronutrient ratios, and stay away from high GI carbs, except post workout. I take my flax oil and dessicated liver, and of course my multivitamin. But, Im doing all these things because I read that I should. Yes, its worked quite well. But I know I can do better, I know I can optimize. And in order to do this I need to know exactely whats going on in my body when this food is taken in, and exactly how thats helping me to build muscle.
If any of you more knowledgeble could point me to some good books or sites Id really appreciate it.
10-13-2003 12:34 PM
kudos on your plan to continue to gain as lean as possible, as well as your attitude towards getting even more specific bro. very awesome. will try to address this again when I have more time and get more in depth with things but off the bat I would say ditch NLarge, there are some decent homemade recipes around here for better gainer solutions that contain actual complex carbs, not poser bull**** complex carbs like Nlarge, especially for taking to work (this situation is just crying for some Wardog Bar intervention )
10-13-2003 06:18 PM
1) The only other gainer that I know of with a better profile is Beverly Mass Maker w/ around 40-45 g carbs and 2or3 g of sugar. I mix my own with protien (isolate/casien mix) with oatmeal, which I feel is the best, sorry it doesn't settle with you.
2) Cholesterol is cholesterol, but being a lipid it has to be "packaged" as a lipoprotein to be soluble in water (blood) for transport. I'm not sure about the mechanism exactly, but HDL (high density lipoprotein containing cholesterol) doesn't get absorbed by arterial walls, so no danger of artherosclerosis. LDL (low dens. lipopr. also containing cholest) can be absorbed by arterial walls, so it can pose a danger of artherosclerosis over time. I do know excess choles. contributes to LDL formation, but someone else will have to step in on that one.
3) Even protein causes an insulin response to some degree. If you are bulking (clean as possible) I would maybe not do as much oatmeal and add some flax for your calories, and keep the veges fiberous, not starchy. Thats just my opinion.
4) Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it by nature causes the "building" of things. Glucose to Glycogen, AA's to structural protein. HGH is also anabolic, so the two would seem to go hand in hand, but I don't know that one for sure. The only inhibitory HGH hormone I could find is somatostatin. Anybody?
5) I have no experience, and the science seems logical enough, but it usually doesn't work that easy, although skeptical, I'm keeping my eyes open.
6) You have an excellent start and plan, if you stick to it and continue to pick up knowledge here and on your own, I would save my money. I'm sure it has some good stuff in it, but I haven't read it. I did find Bodyopus pretty facinating. May be a good read none the less.
I like your ideas, thats how I try to model my own thoughts and goals with nutrition. Good luck, anybody fill in the holes?
10-13-2003 11:48 PM
I've been doing CFM whey protein isolate w/ ground oatmeal post workout for about 6 months. A few weeks ago, there was a low GI post workout thread at bb.com that got ugly (as usual). One post that stood out was John Benz's post about his post workout shake (30g whey and 20g egg) with 1/2 cup COOKED oatmeal. A few posts later he went on to talk about digestive problems with uncooked oatmeal. Since Bobo's low GI posts/rants had convinced me on the ground, uncooked oatmeal in postworkout shake I posted this: Originally posted by BigVrunga 1.)Most of my carbs come from Low GI sources like brown rice and oatmeal. The only sugar Im getting is from my NLarge2 shakes. I usually drink 1.5 servings (6 scoops) a day with 3 cups milk. (one after breakfast and two while Im at work). Is there a better gainer than NLarge in terms of complex carbs? Any good homemade recipes? I tried mixing ON Whey with powdered oatmeal, gave me stomach cramps. I dont mind drinking sludge, though.
His reponse back was:
Last spring, your responses to Draven's post on low GI post workout over at AM won me over to low GI post workout. I've been using uncooked old fashioned oatmeal after running it through a coffee grinder. However, JohnBenz, Hogbeast, and a few other guys in this post have bashed uncooked oatmeal, and I was wondering about your thoughts?
Maybe cooked oatmeal will help with your digestive problem, and reduce the chance of high GI carbs spilling over to fat.
Uncooked oatmeal can cause digestive problems for some people. Cooking it doesn't effect the GI so no worries there. I grind uncooked oats in a coffee grinder and it wokrks just fine for me. But techincally ther are correct in that uncooked for the majority of people might be better. But if you haven't experienced any problems, I wouldn't worry about it.
10-14-2003 12:05 AM
Im wondering if I could toast it in the oven first, and then powder it? Cooking it with water increases the volume, the shake would probably be horrendously thick. Or...cook it with water, add your protien blend after it cools for a bit, and then eat slup down like a porridge. That would eliminate the milk, and most of the sugar. Throw some PB or flax seed in, that would definately be a quality gainer.
I just got a 10lb tub of NLarge, so Im going to go through that first. Im not knocking it - Its a fine product and helped me gain a stack of quality mass. (nearly 60lbs in two years). But with a little more work (and probably less money), I can do better.
Thanks for the responses guys...Im totally psyched about pushing the envelope that much further. Cant' wait to learn more.
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