Velocity Diet To 10/10 Transformation

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    i would think you would spend a good deal of time on the toilet after pizza, whoppers, ice cream. It kinda doesn't make sense to restrict yourself so much, get into healthy mode and then gorge on such blatantly UNHEALTHY foods. I understand your reasoning that it will rev you up, but it will also make your butt sore i think.

    Never had an issue with that. I'm not convinced that one day of eating like this will do any harm...


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Most of the people that failed the diet tried to get away without Casein.

    Yup. Whey is just too fast. It doesn't fill you up for ****. casein "gels up" in the stomach and is anti-catabolic, and is much better at filling you up.

    The original Fat Fast Diet was with just whey....let's just say it was miserable and even the author of the diet on T-Nation didn't make it through the planned diet... lol
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    Yup. Whey is just too fast. It doesn't fill you up for ****. casein "gels up" in the stomach and is anti-catabolic, and is much better at filling you up.

    The original Fat Fast Diet was with just whey....let's just say it was miserable and even the author of the diet on T-Nation didn't make it through the planned diet... lol
    Little bit of interesting, random trivia. The guy that 'turned' Shugart onto the diet was Bruce Kneller aka 'Brock Strasser' aka 'Red Star Labs'. He was the R&D guy for Gaspari at the time, responsible for 'SizeOn'.

    It was a diet reserved for the morbidly obese, a VLCD, typically 500 cals/day. I think he only made it like 3 or 4 days on it...
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    What protein did you go with? If you are not using MD, TP's 'Team Skip' blend is a decent substitute, but I didn't think it tasted as good.
    yeah Xodus that's what i used its a great product i like how they throw some egg protien in the mix, but spend the extra dime and get the premium flavors, that or use Davinci sweetner, **** kicks asss

  5. Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post
    Sweet bro, good luck!

    Are you going to be logging everything in this thread? In a thread at all? Just want to know cuz I'd like to see how this works out for you.
    yeah man thanks for the support. I will be logging on this thread should be good im really pumped
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  6. Ok. So its peridioc whey/casein ingestions, fish oil. Shrink the stomach, have enough protein and good oil to keep you goin. I can see where the 10lb fat loss is coming from but where is the 10lb muscle coming from?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by methodice View Post
    Ok. So its peridioc whey/casein ingestions, fish oil. Shrink the stomach, have enough protein and good oil to keep you goin. I can see where the 10lb fat loss is coming from but where is the 10lb muscle coming from?
    Two different things going on there.

    The V-Diet is for rapid fat loss.

    The 10/10 diet/workout is different. I don't know the specifics of the 10/10 diet though.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  8. LIke i said earlier this week ive been giving the first phase workouts a trial run, just to see where i am, what weight to use etc.
    I'm not gunna lie i lost a little bit of strength, but lets be realistic hear, a little aint bad for such an extreme diet, such as the v-diet. I ran the second workout of the first phase today. Looks like this:

    Circuit training; Sets: 5; Reps: 8; rest 45 seconds
    A1 Push Press
    A2 Rows
    A3 Dumbbell Romanian Deadlifts
    A4 Zercher Squats (CRUCIAL)

    Notes: This workout kicked my ass; started alittle too heavy, but i'll tweak the weights around for next week. I made it through four circuits with the strict rest, i went to start my fifth circuit when my calf crampped up! Which brings up another point, what do u guys think of potassium supplementation? effective? i was also thinking of supplementing with some taurine and beta alanine; i did notice some lactic acid build up but nothing substantial. The zercher squats are pretty crucial have done them in a while, deff. a good exercise if u wanna check your ego.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by cranghel099 View Post
    LIke i said earlier this week ive been giving the first phase workouts a trial run, just to see where i am, what weight to use etc.
    I'm not gunna lie i lost a little bit of strength, but lets be realistic hear, a little aint bad for such an extreme diet, such as the v-diet. I ran the second workout of the first phase today. Looks like this:

    Circuit training; Sets: 5; Reps: 8; rest 45 seconds
    A1 Push Press
    A2 Rows
    A3 Dumbbell Romanian Deadlifts
    A4 Zercher Squats (CRUCIAL)

    Notes: This workout kicked my ass; started alittle too heavy, but i'll tweak the weights around for next week. I made it through four circuits with the strict rest, i went to start my fifth circuit when my calf crampped up! Which brings up another point, what do u guys think of potassium supplementation? effective? i was also thinking of supplementing with some taurine and beta alanine; i did notice some lactic acid build up but nothing substantial. The zercher squats are pretty crucial have done them in a while, deff. a good exercise if u wanna check your ego.
    I think B-Alanine is essential. The affects aren't felt immediately, but the increased endurance does show up.

    I use bulk taurine as my 'filler' for bulk supps that I cap, not sure how much I get, but it was enough to stave off back/calf pumps on SD.

    For potassium, eat a banana or two!
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  10. Sounds kinda like the ABCDE diet of years ago...

    Although the V-Diet would make that MUCh more successful, and using a more timed carb approach ala Poliquin, DiPasquale, or Berardi would make the bulking phase better, too....

  11. What brand protein are most of you using?

    I may give this a go later on in the spring..

  12. I used my own mix from trueprotein.com

  13. Neil, how would you diet to lose 10lb fat and gain 10lb muscle.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    What brand protein are most of you using?

    I may give this a go later on in the spring..
    I used mostly Biotest Metabolic Drive. Mix of flavors (except chocolate). The banana kicks ass. Orange, not so much, mixed with vanilla it was better.

    Team Skip by trueprotein is a decent alternative, not much cheaper and I thought the flavor and mouthfeel was a little lacking, more chalky and a little less 'filling'. If I ever do it again, it will be ALL Metabolic Drive.

    If you go the Biotest route, they actually have a 'V-Diet Special' where it knocks like $50 or so off of the entire diet. MD, Surge, Flameout, Hot-Rox and BCAA's. You will still need Natty PB, milled flax seed and fiber tabs.
    Last edited by Xodus; 01-31-2008 at 12:10 AM.
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    I think B-Alanine is essential. The affects aren't felt immediately, but the increased endurance does show up.

    I use bulk taurine as my 'filler' for bulk supps that I cap, not sure how much I get, but it was enough to stave off back/calf pumps on superdrol.

    For potassium, eat a banana or two!
    haha yeah i ate half a banana before the workout, i think my body is still tryin to recover from the amount of stress caused by the v-diet, i followed up my workout with some chicken breasts in a wrap, to get some more potassium. Speaking of superdrol, what do u guys think of running prohormones on the v-diet??? I was thinking something not too stessful on the body like high dosage of furazadrol

  16. Quote Originally Posted by cranghel099 View Post
    haha yeah i ate half a banana before the workout, i think my body is still tryin to recover from the amount of stress caused by the v-diet, i followed up my workout with some chicken breasts in a wrap, to get some more potassium. Speaking of superdrol, what do u guys think of running prohormones on the v-diet??? I was thinking something not too stessful on the body like high dosage of furazadrol
    I think you'd go hypo if you ran superdrol with it.

    Something a little milder might not be bad, but you are already stressing your body pretty good as it is...
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  17. Quote Originally Posted by methodice View Post
    Neil, how would you diet to lose 10lb fat and gain 10lb muscle.
    The idea behind the 10/10 transformation is do it in phases, first u lose approx. five pounds of body fat, next phase u gain five pounds of muscle, followed by another fat loss, phase, and last another muscle building phase. Each phase is 3 weeks long. Waterbury includes tactical training methods to induce as much fat loss and muscle gain as possible such as, circuit training, High frequency training, asymmetrical training, and last modified high frequency training

  18. Xodus what is your dosage recommendation of beta alanine i was thinking anywhere up to 10 grams a day, i know that sounds a bit high, but some coaches like poliquin suggest that its pretty effective at high dosages

  19. I do 3-5g/day. It's definitely a cumulative supplement.

    Personally, I like Poliquin and his 'wacky' principles and ideas. One of the better performance coaches out there IMHO...
    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  20. Quote Originally Posted by methodice View Post
    Neil, how would you diet to lose 10lb fat and gain 10lb muscle.

    I'm not entirely sure on this, really. However I would say it depends on bodyfat. If someone is quite chubby I don't think doing a 2 week bulk would be very productive, even after 2 weeks on the V diet. I'd probably jump start it with a month of V-Diet and then maybe look to do some muscle gain once leaner so insulin can properly do its job to help gain muscle.

    I think people should get reasonably lean before worrying about bulking up. When you're fat and you try to bulk, it's usually pretty worthless (from a bodybuilding point of view) because you gain way too much fat compared to muscle.

    I'd have to read up more on Waterbury's 10/10 program.

    I rather like Poliquin's Super Accumulation Program for the fastest mass possible without using steroids. Although the results may even rival the juice...hello, 10 lbs in 6 weeks? Sheesh. Poliquin has mentioned 8 lbs in 3 weeks. I've done 5 lbs per 3 weeks, done twice. That was with only whey protein and food...I want to push the limits and see if I can hit that 8 lbs in 3 weeks mark he has mentioned with supplements like very high dose BCAAs, hydrolyzed whey/WMS shakes, Anabolic Pump, and some others. I don't think most people can handle the eating required for this to work, though, let alone the 9 full body workouts per week for two weeks....

    So I guess when it comes down to it, the fastest fat loss diet I've seen is the Velocity Diet. The fastest program for gaining lean mass is the Super Accumulation Program. I've read lots of stuff on forums about the SAP with people saying they were doing it...well guess what? Not many people actually did the whole thing, and many complained it didn't work if they "finished" it. I just don't think they trained hard enough or ate enough. Seriously we're realistically talking 10,000 calories plus per day for the recovery week. The perpetual pump you have that week is absolutely insane...my shoulders felt so tight that my range of motion seriously was very restricted.

    So yeah, depending on your BF, 3-4 weeks of V-Diet (with a big cheat day after 2 weeks) and then 2 cycles of the SAP. I'd throw in some recovery time between the two I think, like a week tapering up calories. That way realistically you'd have 9-10 weeks to lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, or better. If anyone thinks they have the balls to attempt this please start a log! I'd love to see that lol.
  21. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    I was pondering doing a true protein blend of 40% isolate, 40% micellar casein and 20% fiber from psyllium husks
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    I'm not entirely sure on this, really. However I would say it depends on bodyfat. If someone is quite chubby I don't think doing a 2 week bulk would be very productive, even after 2 weeks on the V diet. I'd probably jump start it with a month of V-Diet and then maybe look to do some muscle gain once leaner so insulin can properly do its job to help gain muscle.

    I think people should get reasonably lean before worrying about bulking up. When you're fat and you try to bulk, it's usually pretty worthless (from a bodybuilding point of view) because you gain way too much fat compared to muscle.

    I'd have to read up more on Waterbury's 10/10 program.

    I rather like Poliquin's Super Accumulation Program for the fastest mass possible without using steroids. Although the results may even rival the juice...hello, 10 lbs in 6 weeks? Sheesh. Poliquin has mentioned 8 lbs in 3 weeks. I've done 5 lbs per 3 weeks, done twice. That was with only whey protein and food...I want to push the limits and see if I can hit that 8 lbs in 3 weeks mark he has mentioned with supplements like very high dose BCAAs, hydrolyzed whey/WMS shakes, Anabolic Pump, and some others. I don't think most people can handle the eating required for this to work, though, let alone the 9 full body workouts per week for two weeks....

    So I guess when it comes down to it, the fastest fat loss diet I've seen is the Velocity Diet. The fastest program for gaining lean mass is the Super Accumulation Program. I've read lots of stuff on forums about the SAP with people saying they were doing it...well guess what? Not many people actually did the whole thing, and many complained it didn't work if they "finished" it. I just don't think they trained hard enough or ate enough. Seriously we're realistically talking 10,000 calories plus per day for the recovery week. The perpetual pump you have that week is absolutely insane...my shoulders felt so tight that my range of motion seriously was very restricted.

    So yeah, depending on your BF, 3-4 weeks of V-Diet (with a big cheat day after 2 weeks) and then 2 cycles of the SAP. I'd throw in some recovery time between the two I think, like a week tapering up calories. That way realistically you'd have 9-10 weeks to lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, or better. If anyone thinks they have the balls to attempt this please start a log! I'd love to see that lol.
    I could see why u would think that a bulking phase would be unproductive for somebody with a high BF% to start with, but waterbury's diet plan EVEN ON THE BULK PHASES which last 3 WEEKS in length, require you to eat really clean, with the exception of some cheat meals. I think the idea behind waterbury's bulk phase is to take in just enough calories to stimulate (MAXIMIZE) lean muscle mass, while reducing the chances of fat gain. Taken directly from his ebook:
    "The key, however, is to not eat so much that you gain fat. If you gain a little, it’s fine, but we want to minimize fat gain at all costs."
    "I’ve never been a fan of high calorie diets because they’re too difficult for most people to follow and they tend to, of course, make people fat."



    You speak of the Super Accumulation Program which sounds like an awesome program; 9 full body workouts in one week. That's High frequency training at its best; but to be honest, do you really think most traniees would have the work capacity to handle such a routine? I think most traniees who lack the experience as well as work capacity (keep in mind, this is assuming these traniees have done at least 3 total body workouts a week) would experience some real gains on waterbury's bulk phase which require 5 FULL BODY workouts a week; just a step up but not too overwhelming. Also, based on a High Frequency Training article i read over at t-nation, according to Waterbury it takes weeks to progress to over 8 full body workouts a week.
    But don't get me wrong, the Super Accumulation Program prob. is a very successful program, especially if its only run for two weeks. There's just so many variables to consider set/rep volume, a.m./p.m. workouts etc.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    I'm not entirely sure on this, really. However I would say it depends on bodyfat. If someone is quite chubby I don't think doing a 2 week bulk would be very productive, even after 2 weeks on the V diet. I'd probably jump start it with a month of V-Diet and then maybe look to do some muscle gain once leaner so insulin can properly do its job to help gain muscle.

    I think people should get reasonably lean before worrying about bulking up. When you're fat and you try to bulk, it's usually pretty worthless (from a bodybuilding point of view) because you gain way too much fat compared to muscle.

    I'd have to read up more on Waterbury's 10/10 program.

    I rather like Poliquin's Super Accumulation Program for the fastest mass possible without using steroids. Although the results may even rival the juice...hello, 10 lbs in 6 weeks? Sheesh. Poliquin has mentioned 8 lbs in 3 weeks. I've done 5 lbs per 3 weeks, done twice. That was with only whey protein and food...I want to push the limits and see if I can hit that 8 lbs in 3 weeks mark he has mentioned with supplements like very high dose BCAAs, hydrolyzed whey/WMS shakes, Anabolic Pump, and some others. I don't think most people can handle the eating required for this to work, though, let alone the 9 full body workouts per week for two weeks....

    So I guess when it comes down to it, the fastest fat loss diet I've seen is the Velocity Diet. The fastest program for gaining lean mass is the Super Accumulation Program. I've read lots of stuff on forums about the SAP with people saying they were doing it...well guess what? Not many people actually did the whole thing, and many complained it didn't work if they "finished" it. I just don't think they trained hard enough or ate enough. Seriously we're realistically talking 10,000 calories plus per day for the recovery week. The perpetual pump you have that week is absolutely insane...my shoulders felt so tight that my range of motion seriously was very restricted.

    So yeah, depending on your BF, 3-4 weeks of V-Diet (with a big cheat day after 2 weeks) and then 2 cycles of the SAP. I'd throw in some recovery time between the two I think, like a week tapering up calories. That way realistically you'd have 9-10 weeks to lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, or better. If anyone thinks they have the balls to attempt this please start a log! I'd love to see that lol.
    I could see why u would think that a bulking phase would be unproductive for somebody with a high BF% to start with, but waterbury's diet plan EVEN ON THE BULK PHASES which last 3 WEEKS in length, require you to eat really clean, with the exception of some cheat meals. I think the idea behind waterbury's bulk phase is to take in just enough calories to stimulate (MAXIMIZE) lean muscle mass, while reducing the chances of fat gain. Taken directly from his ebook:
    "The key, however, is to not eat so much that you gain fat. If you gain a little, it’s fine, but we want to minimize fat gain at all costs."
    "I’ve never been a fan of high calorie diets because they’re too difficult for most people to follow and they tend to, of course, make people fat."



    You speak of the Super Accumulation Program which sounds like an awesome program; 9 full body workouts in one week. That's High frequency training at its best; but to be honest, do you really think most traniees would have the work capacity to handle such a routine? I think most traniees who lack the experience as well as work capacity (keep in mind, this is assuming these traniees have done at least 3 total body workouts a week) would experience some real gains on waterbury's bulk phase which require 5 FULL BODY workouts a week; just a step up but not too overwhelming. Also, based on a High Frequency Training article i read over at t-nation, according to Waterbury it takes weeks to progress to over 8 full body workouts a week.
    But don't get me wrong, the Super Accumulation Program prob. is a very successful program, especially if its only run for two weeks. There's just so many variables to consider set/rep volume, a.m./p.m. workouts etc.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I was pondering doing a true protein blend of 40% isolate, 40% micellar casein and 20% fiber from psyllium husks
    that may work but how many grams of fiber does that calulate out to? Shugart suggests like 20-25 total dietary fiber

  25. Quote Originally Posted by cranghel099 View Post
    I could see why u would think that a bulking phase would be unproductive for somebody with a high BF% to start with, but waterbury's diet plan EVEN ON THE BULK PHASES which last 3 WEEKS in length, require you to eat really clean, with the exception of some cheat meals. I think the idea behind waterbury's bulk phase is to take in just enough calories to stimulate (MAXIMIZE) lean muscle mass, while reducing the chances of fat gain. Taken directly from his ebook:
    "The key, however, is to not eat so much that you gain fat. If you gain a little, it’s fine, but we want to minimize fat gain at all costs."
    "I’ve never been a fan of high calorie diets because they’re too difficult for most people to follow and they tend to, of course, make people fat."



    You speak of the Super Accumulation Program which sounds like an awesome program; 9 full body workouts in one week. That's High frequency training at its best; but to be honest, do you really think most traniees would have the work capacity to handle such a routine? I think most traniees who lack the experience as well as work capacity (keep in mind, this is assuming these traniees have done at least 3 total body workouts a week) would experience some real gains on waterbury's bulk phase which require 5 FULL BODY workouts a week; just a step up but not too overwhelming. Also, based on a High Frequency Training article i read over at t-nation, according to Waterbury it takes weeks to progress to over 8 full body workouts a week.
    But don't get me wrong, the Super Accumulation Program prob. is a very successful program, especially if its only run for two weeks. There's just so many variables to consider set/rep volume, a.m./p.m. workouts etc.

    Well I'm still not convinced that trying to gain muscle is a good idea when pretty fat, cause insulin sensitivity sucks, regardless of calories eaten.

    Trust me man the SAP with 9 workouts a week is a world of difference from Waterbury's 5-8 full body workouts per week. SAP every set is balls to the walls to failure...Waterbury is non-failure. I did work into it slightly by doing 3 full body workouts a week, but that's about it. I'm no god of recovery myself here. The point is it will bury you in those 2 weeks. You walk around constantly feeling like you got jumped the night before... lol

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    Well I'm still not convinced that trying to gain muscle is a good idea when pretty fat, cause insulin sensitivity sucks, regardless of calories eaten.

    Trust me man the SAP with 9 workouts a week is a world of difference from Waterbury's 5-8 full body workouts per week. SAP every set is balls to the walls to failure...Waterbury is non-failure. I did work into it slightly by doing 3 full body workouts a week, but that's about it. I'm no god of recovery myself here. The point is it will bury you in those 2 weeks. You walk around constantly feeling like you got jumped the night before... lol
    Yeah a BF% of 9 to 16 percent seems like the ideal range to where you would see the most results, anything above that you would have to take into consideration insulin sensitvity, but genetics play a huge role as well, even at a low bodyfat the occasional cheat meal could set back someone with inferior metabolism genes.
  27. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by cranghel099 View Post
    that may work but how many grams of fiber does that calulate out to? Shugart suggests like 20-25 total dietary fiber
    I think it was right at 4.5g per shake, with 23ishg of protein, and 1g of fat, maybe 1g of carbs on top of that. I did it with the ion exchange whey. came to under $10 a pound that way.
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  28. I'm sorry to take this thread of track, but for this cheat day after 2 weeks on the v-diet I'm planning on eatting 15,000+ cals. Is there a limit or can I go crazy?

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Simpfan1278 View Post
    I'm sorry to take this thread of track, but for this cheat day after 2 weeks on the v-diet I'm planning on eatting 15,000+ cals. Is there a limit or can I go crazy?
    Why the f*ck would you want to do that?

    Read the diet, Shugart considers the 'cheat' a restaurant meal, like a salad w/oil & vinegar and a lean steak with steamed veg. This diet is about as simple as it gets, no thinking required. Why do people constantly want to change stuff?

    “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.”

  30. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think it was right at 4.5g per shake, with 23ishg of protein, and 1g of fat, maybe 1g of carbs on top of that. I did it with the ion exchange whey. came to under $10 a pound that way.
    Sounds solid go for it, but put in the extra dime and get premium flavors, true protien original flavors are god aweful
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