Citric acid/ ketosis

Rhapsody · 08-11-2003, 08:04 PM

Why does citric acid knock some people out of ketosis???

Does it have anything to do with the KREB cycle?

Sheesh · 08-11-2003, 10:31 PM

Citric acid plays a key part in the Kreb Cycle (aka the "Citric Acid Cycle"), simply because it the 6-carbon molecule that pretty much starts the cycle is indeed Citric Acid (acetyl-coa combines with oxaloacetate to form the citric acid, and this is the first step of the cycle).

But, no, it's not going to knock you out of ketosis.

spike1205 · 08-12-2003, 12:56 PM

Sheesh--from what ive read (or atleast rememebr) citric acid does/can knock you out of ketosis. I dont know the research on it and tend to believe it is more likely other ingredients in foods containing citric acid (ie aspartame in diet sodas) but i have read repeatedly that citric acid does and can --Rhaps--i sont have a clue how

Sheesh · 08-12-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spike1205
Sheesh--from what ive read (or atleast rememebr) citric acid does/can knock you out of ketosis. I dont know the research on it and tend to believe it is more likely other ingredients in foods containing citric acid (ie aspartame in diet sodas) but i have read repeatedly that citric acid does and can --Rhaps--i sont have a clue how

If anyone has any more information on this, or some sort of logic behind how this could happen, I'd be very interested in you sharing it with the rest of us. Thanks.

LunaHotel · 08-12-2003, 06:54 PM

Ketosis, voluntary ketosis like you have on a ketogenic diet and not diabetes-induced ketoacidosis, relies on the Cori cycle, and lets the Krebs cycle completely collapse. That is the "alternative" cycle which is the object of "metabolic adaptation period" prior to feeling really good on a ketogenic diet. From these facts it appears logical that too much citric acid may well re-activate the krebs cycle and thus have gluconeogenesis kick in, which WILL take you of of ketosis.

That's my theory. Research the Cori cycle and it will probably make some kind of sense...

Sheesh · 08-12-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LunaHotel
Ketosis, voluntary ketosis like you have on a ketogenic diet and not diabetes-induced ketoacidosis, relies on the Cori cycle, and lets the Krebs cycle completely collapse. That is the "alternative" cycle which is the object of "metabolic adaptation period" prior to feeling really good on a ketogenic diet. From these facts it appears logical that too much citric acid may well re-activate the krebs cycle and thus have gluconeogenesis kick in, which WILL take you of of ketosis.

I know the Cori cycle pretty well, and I understand what you're saying. However, I just haven't seen any evidence that just the presence of Citric Acid could interfere with ketosis, especially as the main source of oxaloacetate is Pyruvate. Many people in ketosis drink alot of diet soda, which contains citric acid, and these people (including myself) haven't been kicked out of ketosis by it.

Sheesh · 08-12-2003, 08:31 PM

Ok...did some research, and all I could find was some anecdotal evidence.

From http://www.geocities.com/whooshfriends/FAQ3.htm

Quote:

Keep in mind that not everyone is the same. Some of the following suggestions may be the culprit for some stalls, but not for everyone. The best thing to do is to eliminate one thing at a time for a short period to see if you have any positive reaction. If nothing comes from it, then go to the next item and eliminate it. You just have to test it and see.

Citric acid is one thing mentioned for causing stalls. It's most commonly found in diet sodas. Diet Dr. Pepper is one of the few diet drinks that do not contain citric acid.

From http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/faq.htm

Quote:

. They say that caffeine raises insulin levels, can I still use the
ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin (ECA) stack?

I'm supremely tired of arguing the caffeine and insulin debate. Look,
the studies people are referring to find that, in some individuals,
caffeine intake will lead to greater insulin release if carbs are
eaten. Caffeine by itself DOES NOT RAISE INSULIN at least not
through any possible mechanism I can find. So please quit
asking. The ECA stack will definitely improve your results on this
diet. I took it and never had a problem. So has everyone else I've
talked to or coached on the diet. Yes, Atkins says no caffeine but
here's what I think happened: Some individuals are sensitive
to the citric acid (and/or Nutrasweet) in diet sodas. I think
some early Atkins dieters were drinking lots of diet soda and
couldn't get into ketosis. Atkins concluded that caffeine was the
problem when the real culprit was something else in the soda (again,
citric acid and nutrasweet seem to keep some people out of ketosis).

From http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/ar...03/02/4/215926

Quote:

MiniColemans does citric acid keep one out of ketosis or not?

will drinking diet coke screw up my Ckd diet?
opinions please

serge it effects some, but not others. you should experiment and see how your body reacts, another point to keep in mind, is at first it will be harder for you to get into ketosis so citric acid might be problamatic, while after your body enters ketosis a few times (after a few cycles) it will reach ketosis with more ease, so at that point citric acid might not cause any disturbances. experiment and see how your body reacts

Scottyo · 08-12-2003, 08:31 PM

Ive heard of people who are very sensitive to citric acid being kicked out of ketosis as per keto sticks. Others get the same thing with diet soda whether from the citric acid or aspartame is unknown...but Ive heard of it happening to some people.

chi_town · 08-13-2003, 07:58 AM

From The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald.......

Quote:

Citric acid and aspertame

In all likelihood, problems with diet soda relate to one of these two compounds, both of which are used as artifical sweeteners in diet producs. Citric acid may inhibit ketosis and diet sodas containing citric acid or apertame are not allowed for epileptic children on a ketogenic diet(14). However, there is some debate over this point(15). Possibly citric acid might affect ketosis by effecting liver motabolism, primarily the Krebs cycle. Some individuals report that citric acid prevents them from entering ketosis but does not affect ketosis once it has been established. One study, examining very low-calorie diets, found that the consumption of citric acid inhibited ketosis and increased appetite in many individuals(16). Ultimately, individuals will have to determine for themselves whether citric acid or aspertame has any effect on ketosis, appetite or fatloss on a ketogenic diet.

References....

14. Gash At. Use of the traditional ketogenic diet for treatment of intractable epilepsy. JAm Diet Assoc (1990) 90:1433-1434.

15. Brunett A. Should diet soft driniks be restricted on a ketogenic diet[Letter]. J Am Diet Assoc (1991) 91:776.

16. Krietman S. Factors influencing body composition during very low-calorie diets. Am J Clin Nutr (1992) 56 (suppl):217S-223S.

PEACE

LunaHotel · 08-13-2003, 10:40 AM

Sheesh, do you know of a web page that explains the cori cycle well? I did the research many years ago and I'm a little foggy... Now that the question has been brought up, I feel I need to brush up a little

Sheesh · 08-13-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LunaHotel
Sheesh, do you know of a web page that explains the cori cycle well? I did the research many years ago and I'm a little foggy... Now that the question has been brought up, I feel I need to brush up a little

'

I learned from a book, but a little googlin' always does a guy well...

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...coricycle.html

is a fairly good resource.