[0x29a]

I was wondering if someone could give me some advice. I am currently trying to drop some fat and I am using a timed carb style diet. I only eat carbs with a shake after work outs M, W, F.

I want to try to keep as much muscle as I can, but honestly do not care if I lose a few. How critical is it to have carbs after a workout? I am obviously taking into reduced calories so I doubt I am build much muscle. The issue is that I seem to feel run down the days after using carbs. It is almost like I am starting the phase-in process over again.

I current eat @ 2100kCal (10% CHO, 40% FAT, 50% PR0). My PWO shakes consist of about 60 CHO. My total CHO intake is about 30g on off days and 90-100g on workout days.

Stats are 200 (23% BF) down from 280 (?? BF) 38" waist. 15.5 neck. My goal is to get to at least 15%. It would be nice to get lower, but I honestly do not desire to get below 10% or maintain a lower BF %.

I am losing about 2 lbs per week and have been in the 2-4 range per week since August. I started supplementing with BCAAs this week, but otherwise I have not taken any supplements besides whey protein.


Is it alright to just drop the carbs totally, or do I need some sort of re-feed? Also if something seems off with my program any advice would help.

[slyfox115]

I would suggest at least having one carb up MEAL once a week just to keep the metabolism revving, restore some glycogen, and restore leptin levels. I tried to PWO carbs as well and when I took them out, i noticed a difference in fat loss and the recovery wasn't hindered so I stuck with no carbs PWO. Try it and see if you notice a difference. I also replaced my PWO shake with sipping on 5-6 scoops of Xtend during the workout. Honeslty I havent lost any lean mass whatsoever and I have been preparing for a contest the past 10 weeks.

Check out this web site, it should clear up alot of questions

c-k-d.com

[Jim Mills]

Take a look at this site... I've been on it for 8 weeks and I'm down from 187 to 171... Best diet by far... http://stronglifts.com/anabolic-diet/

[Jim Mills]

Forgot to mention.... If you google it, you can download the whole book.

[EasyEJL]

carbs aren't necessary for your health. So you can drop them entirely.

[justing]

hey im no pro. but i think the statement carbs arnt needed for ur health is a bit extreme. that means no veggies or fruit. both of which are a great source of health.

[EasyEJL]

I'm not saying its easy to maintain good health that way, as there are lots of nutrients you need to add as supplements, but its even used in the medical field (diets without carbs)

http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/Epilepsy/keto.html

but all of your organs are capable of functioning without any carbs given enough proteins + fats. Takes a week or so of adaptation, then your brain even is at full capacity

[Heat Miser]

You will be just fine without carbs all day long and post workout. Keep your calories and protein sufficient and you will be fine.

At your bodyfat you can get by without a refeed as long as you see that the weight and fat is still coming off.

Once things stall give yourself a good and hardy refeed meal (usually feast at a buffet) of primarily complex carbohydrates and a good amount of protein. Avoid sugars. Try not to consume too much fat during that meal.

Ideally you should place that meal within a 12-18 hours window prior to your next workout, which should be planned to be of moderate to high intensity. Not a bad idea to follow it with a 30 mins cardio session as well.

Then cycle back into your restriced carbs diet. You can probably get by with doing this every two or three weeks but gage your progress ofter your week following the refeed. You may not need it as often. Usually after you get leaner you will need it more frequently, but right now I would think that you will do fine with a larger period between them.

Note that you will hold a lot of water weight and the scale will probably move upward afterwards and stay that way for a day or two or more. Once you get depleted again you will drop out the weight and you will be on your way to continued fat loss for a while. gage your progress and repeat when desired.

[Socrates44]

The statement that carbs are not necessary for healthy functioning is maybe a little extreme, but it is true that carbs are not as necessary as everyone thinks. They only part of your body that runs solely on glucose are red blood cells. However your body can break down gluconeogenic amino acids like alanine to produce glucose for red blood cells. However there have been some studys stating that staying on a ketogenic diet for too long is hard on your heart.

Another common misconception is that dietary fats lead to fat storage. It is actually glucose and insulin that cause fat storage. Excess glucose is converted into something called a chylomicron. This huge molecule is similar to LDL's and HDL's and carries almost 90% of its weight as Triacylglycerides. There molecules are bind to adipose tissue and deposit there nasty little payload: TG or fat.

[warvictim]

Hello all: I have a question. I know that we should incorporate into our diets cheat-meals (refeed-meals) as part of our weight loss regimen, as a tool to give us a rest, give us some fuel into our tired and hungry depleted systems and brain. And as a relaxation, anti-depressant tool.

However, wouldn't 1 cheat refeed meal a day hinder the caloric-deficit that we are trying to work so hard for.

I mean isn't it better to have 1 refeed cheat meal once a month, instead of once a week?

warvictim

Originally Posted by slyfox115

I would suggest at least having one carb up MEAL once a week just to keep the metabolism revving, restore some glycogen, and restore leptin levels. I tried to PWO carbs as well and when I took them out, i noticed a difference in fat loss and the recovery wasn't hindered so I stuck with no carbs PWO. Try it and see if you notice a difference. I also replaced my PWO shake with sipping on 5-6 scoops of Xtend during the workout. Honeslty I havent lost any lean mass whatsoever and I have been preparing for a contest the past 10 weeks.

Check out this web site, it should clear up alot of questions

c-k-d.com

[Heat Miser]

Originally Posted by warvictim

Hello all: I have a question. I know that we should incorporate into our diets cheat-meals (refeed-meals) as part of our weight loss regimen, as a tool to give us a rest, give us some fuel into our tired and hungry depleted systems and brain. And as a relaxation, anti-depressant tool.

However, wouldn't 1 cheat refeed meal a day hinder the caloric-deficit that we are trying to work so hard for.

I mean isn't it better to have 1 refeed cheat meal once a month, instead of once a week?

warvictim

How do you define the difference between a cheat meal and a refeed. There is a difference and the difference can determine whether it is beneficial or not.

Anything done daily whether of poor food choice or that creates a surplus of calories is going to be counter productive.

[slyfox115]

Originally Posted by warvictim

Hello all: I have a question. I know that we should incorporate into our diets cheat-meals (refeed-meals) as part of our weight loss regimen, as a tool to give us a rest, give us some fuel into our tired and hungry depleted systems and brain. And as a relaxation, anti-depressant tool.

However, wouldn't 1 cheat refeed meal a day hinder the caloric-deficit that we are trying to work so hard for.

I mean isn't it better to have 1 refeed cheat meal once a month, instead of once a week?

warvictim

Yes that is exactly right. Refeeds allow us to keep our sanity, and if done the right way, can enhance fat loss even further. For that day you might be at a caloric surplus, but the increased metabolism and regulation of fat burning hormones will outweigh the other 6 days of the week.

I would never advacate a CHEAT meal. People think, "cheat", they think pizza and ice cream. If you were to cheat, my advice would be to cheat with amounts of food. Instead of one cup of oats, have two cups, with raising and natural peanut butter thrown in.

The problem I had with having CHEAT days was it made the rest of the 6 days miserable for me because I awakened my taste buds again into thinking all that tasted so good. Just my two cents.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by slyfox115

The problem I had with having CHEAT days was it made the rest of the 6 days miserable for me because I awakened my taste buds again into thinking all that tasted so good. Just my two cents.

the problem with never having cheat days though is that it clips you out of social functions. Family parties, etc you have to bring your own food or eat right before and right after, etc. wedding receptions are a good example

[slyfox115]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

the problem with never having cheat days though is that it clips you out of social functions. Family parties, etc you have to bring your own food or eat right before and right after, etc. wedding receptions are a good example

Easy I totally agree. I guess it comes down to how serious you want to take it. I think the best way is to find that perfect balance between bodybuilding and life in general. Unless you are preparing for a competition then you shouldnt hesitate to live life a little once in awhile. Just dont get carried away, most of us bodybuilder have that "all or nothing" mentality, and a cheat is like a 3000 calorie meal .

[Heat Miser]

We have a lot of speculations and theories and casual terms like cheat meals being used here.

A refeed (or a carb-up) is a strategic plan with a purpose.

Lyle McDonald BodyOpus Infomation
Lyle McDonald BodyOpus Infomation
Lyle McDonald BodyOpus Infomation
This is probably the most critical part of the CKD. The carb up phase
accomplishes two things:
1. rebuilds any muscle that might be lost during the week due to the
anabolic processes related to cell hydration
2. refills muscle glycogen stores for the first workouts of the next week
allowing you to train intensely enough to avoid muscle loss while on low
calories

There are two approaches to the carb-up phase:
1. Subjective approach: with this approach, you simply carb to your hearts
content UNTIL you begin to feel yourself spilling water over to the skin
(i.e. you'll get bloated and smooth). This indicates that muscle glycogen
stores are full and additional carbs will go to the fat cells. The types
of carbs you consume (simple sugars vs. complex carbs) will, to a great
degree, determine how quickly your muscle cells become full.
This approach also allows you to dial in your pre-contest carbing up to
see how your body will respond and what type of carb-up will make you look
the best. To enhance fat loss, it is recommended that you do not carb for
more than 24-36 total hours. This turns the diet into 6 days of low carb
and 1 day of carbing. And, again, more days in ketosis means more fat
lost.
For those who need to lose fat very quickly, carbing every other weekend
can have very positive results although it's not as much fun. In this
case, I'd suggest one concentrated carb meal one hour in length right after
Friday's workout and then go immediately back to low carbs. Unless you
really overdo it, you will probably spike yourself back into ketosis by
Saturday morning. The training structure for this approach might be:
Mon: chest and back
Tue: legs and abs
Wed: cardio
Thu: delts and arms
Fri, Sat, Sun: cardio (have your once concentrated carb meal on one of
these days)
Mon: legs, back and bis
Tue: chest, delts, tris, abs
Wed: cardio
Thu: cardio
Fri: high rep depletion workout, begin carbing

The benefits of such an approach are relatively greater fat loss since you
spend proportionally more time (10 days out of 14 vs. 8 days out of 14 if
you carb every weekend) in ketosis. The cons are that it's rather boring
and there may be a greater potential for muscle loss. Again,
experimentation (and frequent body composition measures are key).

2. Objective approach: this approach is much more specific. After glycogen
depletion, the muscles can handle 16 grams of carb/kg of lean body mass
during the first 24 hours and 9 grams of carbs/kg lean body mass during the
second 24. In terms of amounts and quality of carbs, you should emphasize
lots of high glycemic index carbs at the beginning of the carb load and
shift to lower amounts of lower glycemic index carbs towards the end. For
very specific recommendations as to quantity and quality of carbs during
the carb-up, check out Dan Duchaine's Bodyopus book.

During the carb-up phase, several other things are important:
1. Protein: you should consume 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight
(or per pound of lean body mass) divided evenly across each 24 hours.
2. Fat: you should consume approximately 15% of your total calories as
essential fatty acids (flax oil, olive oil and walnuts are good sources)
especially near the end of the carb up to slow digestion.
3. Water: for every gram of carbs you consume, you need to consume 3-4
grams of water for optimal refilling of the muscles. This works out to 10
cups of water for a carb intake of 600 grams per day. Unless you're doing
the final carb-up for your contest, I suggest drinking as much water as you
can put down.

185lb = 1300g of carbs in 1st 24 hours = 5200 additional calories from carbs alone in the first 24 hours
185lb = 750g of carbs in 2nd 24 hours = 3000 additional calories from carbs alone in the second 24 hours

Unless there is some sort of order or strategy all that is being achieved with a cheat meal is a break from discipline and the ability to just eat whatever you want because you feel like it without any real structure or goal or intention. /end rant