[Socrates44]

A buddy of mine came to me trying to get my GNC discount for Hydroxycut Hardcore....he also has panic disorder. Being the good friend that I am, I told him that he would freak on hydroxycut and probably end up in the ER.

My question is what non-stim aid is out there. I have heard good things about RK's. I wanted to get some advice from the peanut gallery and see if it was good and if there were decent products (DCP?)

Thanks guy, and have a Merry Christmas!!

...Or Chrismahanakwanzakahyule

[ozarkaBRAND]

what are his goals?

if it's fat-loss then DCP should be a solid choice.

[asianbabe]

For fat loss/recomp get him to try a low dose of DCP to see how he does. Otherwise, some other non stims he can try are green tea or sesamin/thin, fish oils, ala.

[strategicmove]

Going back to the title of your thread, raspberry ketones, as you know have the same chemical structure as capsaicin and synephrine, and like both of them, trigger the secretion of norepinephrine, the body's main endogenous thermogenic/lipolytic hormone. Raspberry ketones do not have the sides associated with capsaicin (gastrointestinal issues) and synephrine (cardiovascular insults).

DCP, as you also know, contains raspberry ketones, but you may want to add extra raspberry ketones to DCP.

Besides that, as asianbabe suggested, you should definitely look into green tea extract with high (>45%) EGCG content. Green Tea should support norepinephrine secretion (due to catechol-o-methyl-transferase (COMT) inhibition, serve as nutrient partitioner, and appetite suppressant (via stimulation of the secretion of the peptide hormone cholecystokinin (CCK)), and protein synthesis (also via the CCK pathway).

You may also want to consider Forskolin for cAMP-boosting/norepinephrine synthesis.

Clinicals have shown that sesame lignans (Sesame/Sesathin) and Fish Oil demonstrate significant synergy when consumed together.

Bioavailable Chromium is also worth mentioning.

[Socrates44]

yes, I apologize for being so vague, he is wanting to utilize it for weight loss. He is a pretty big boy, but he used to powerlift with me, so I know his diet will be in check and training is not a problem.


I dont believe that capsaicin, synephrine and RK's have the same molecular structure though. Coming from a pharmaceutical background if the structures were identical they would exude identical effects. (structure=activity.)...anyways, Im really trying to keep him from freaking out too much (he cant even take sudafed).

I have him on a 45% ECGC for inhibition of COMT. But I have to watch that because when he lifts he listens to heavy metal and goes hard with increases endogenous cats like Epi and NE, and if i cut out too much of the enzyme that degrades it, he is will freak.

I seriously have never seen anyone this sensitive.


ps. Does ECGC also decrease grhelin or is that still on the endocanniboid receptor blockers?

[strategicmove]

Originally Posted by Socrates44

...
I dont believe that capsaicin, synephrine and RK's have the same molecular structure though...

I respect that point of view. Yet, I still think capsaicin, synephrine, and raspberry ketones have the same molecular structure. Nevertheless, I would very much appreciate evidence that this is not the case. That way, I will be wiser

[Socrates44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synephrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_ketone


Capsaicin is an entirely different type of molecule, belong to a class of capsaicinoids (sp?). Raspberry Ketones and Synephrine however are pretty close in structure, however the presence of different groups will make their activity different. Which is what you had stated (Synephrine causing jitters and cardiac problems) and RK's causing massive amounts of thermogenesis.

All in all you were correct with the different activities, or so it would seem. But it appears that all 3 molecules are different.


I know the links are from wikipedia, but I have used the scientific portion of wikipedia numerous times with great results.