[kraftkid]

I have used variations of aitkens diets in the past that have worked well for weigth loss, but they also ruin my gym workouts.

I am interested in trying carb cycling, but of all the programs i have found via search etc, they vary WIDELY in terms of carbs suggested, days at each intake level, fish oil inclusion, etc.

Does anyone have real life experience with a specific approach, the results they attained, mistakes made, etc?

I know there are a lot of people interested in this topic and would really appreciate you sharing your experience.

[LilPsychotic]

This is what works for me when I start dieting in the spring. I sort of diet in the off season, but cheat more frequently around the holidays and such. I tend to start serious dieting around spring break (March). The idea behind cycling carbs is the body will burn off fat when glycogen is depleted. However there is a trick to it, you can't go low carb everyday or else you will lose significant muscle mass and just generally feel like sh*t. So in order to avoid or at least minimize that factor, you need to cycle carbs. For simplicity, say you start on a Monday. Now this is what I do, depending on your body weight, you may have to modify it. Now, I weigh 180ish, but will drop down to 165ish in the spring. Monday-Wed Moderate carb days 150-200g/day range. Thurs/Fri Low carb <30g. Saturday/Sunday High carb > 500g/day and perhaps a cheat on either of these days. Now you can get deeper into it to achieve greater fat loss more rapidly, for example go 4 low days, tues-fri then bring glycogen stores back up over the weekend with two high carb days, do a moderate on monday, and go low again for the remainder of the work week. The more low days you have, the more drastic the effects will be. However 2 low days is sufficient for me to keep fat off. The key to carb cycling is the high days, that bring everything back up. You do feel like sh*t on the low days however, that is unavoidable. This method works though, if you stick with it. Great for contest prep.

[rpen22]

I imagine from the fish oil comment that you've read about Twin Peak's carb cycling. I actually just started that version today.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by rpen22

I imagine from the fish oil comment that you've read about Twin Peak's carb cycling. I actually just started that version today.

That and some Dr Dipasquale talkes about it.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by LilPsychotic

This is what works for me when I start dieting in the spring. I sort of diet in the off season, but cheat more frequently around the holidays and such. I tend to start serious dieting around spring break (March). The idea behind cycling carbs is the body will burn off fat when glycogen is depleted. However there is a trick to it, you can't go low carb everyday or else you will lose significant muscle mass and just generally feel like sh*t. So in order to avoid or at least minimize that factor, you need to cycle carbs. For simplicity, say you start on a Monday. Now this is what I do, depending on your body weight, you may have to modify it. Now, I weigh 180ish, but will drop down to 165ish in the spring. Monday-Wed Moderate carb days 150-200g/day range. Thurs/Fri Low carb <30g. Saturday/Sunday High carb > 500g/day and perhaps a cheat on either of these days. Now you can get deeper into it to achieve greater fat loss more rapidly, for example go 4 low days, tues-fri then bring glycogen stores back up over the weekend with two high carb days, do a moderate on monday, and go low again for the remainder of the work week. The more low days you have, the more drastic the effects will be. However 2 low days is sufficient for me to keep fat off. The key to carb cycling is the high days, that bring everything back up. You do feel like sh*t on the low days however, that is unavoidable. This method works though, if you stick with it. Great for contest prep.

Thanks LilP. Actually a Bengals fan, but was pulling for you against the Pats.

How do you match up your carb days with workouts? Both weights and cardio. I don't mind cardio at all. I am 230 and want to get to 215. I have my workouts dialed in, supps etc. Just a novice at c cycling.

[rpen22]

Well, if you haven't already, I suggest reading through these. TP lays his version out pretty well.


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par30.htm

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...rate_cycling_2

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par49.htm

[Botch]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

That and some Dr Dipasquale talkes about it.

That is the perfect place to start. Dr Dipasquale is very knowledgable. Most of the cyclic carb diets you see are variations of the Anabolic Diet which he created. If you haven't already checked this out, you should start reading it.. (even the first 20 or so pages is PACKED with info. and will teach you a great deal) http://www.t-nation.com/tmagnum/read...58379&pageNo=0 Here you will learn a LOT about the anabolic diet if that is the lifestyle you choose to pursue.. and I for one, love eating this way.

[LilPsychotic]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Thanks LilP. Actually a Bengals fan, but was pulling for you against the Pats.

How do you match up your carb days with workouts? Both weights and cardio. I don't mind cardio at all. I am 230 and want to get to 215. I have my workouts dialed in, supps etc. Just a novice at c cycling.

Yeah, you just reminded me to change my avatar. New England is just too damn good. Certainly a team that I love to hate. Anyway, about the fish oils, depending on how you drop your fat cals on this diet supplementing a healthy oil is not a bad idea. On my low carb days, I basically eat egg whites, xtra lean ground beef of turkey, and a couple pieces of cheese. My skin dries out if I don't take flaxseed oil several times a day because of the lack of fat in the diet. The less fat you eat, the leaner you'll become. I just choose flaxseed over fish because I hate the fish burps, but either is fine. I take about 6g/day. Also, a tablespoon of a good peanut butter will give add some healthy fats, and help with the carb cravings.

[LilPsychotic]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Thanks LilP. Actually a Bengals fan, but was pulling for you against the Pats.

How do you match up your carb days with workouts? Both weights and cardio. I don't mind cardio at all. I am 230 and want to get to 215. I have my workouts dialed in, supps etc. Just a novice at c cycling.

I workout the smaller muscle groups on low days arms and shoulders, and save legs for the high days. Cardio depends. On the off season I do 20 min 3x/week. In the spring I do up to 5 hours/week. 1/2 hour 1st thing in the morning, and last thing at night 5 days a week, usually monday through friday.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by Botch

That is the perfect place to start. Dr Dipasquale is very knowledgable. Most of the cyclic carb diets you see are variations of the Anabolic Diet which he created. If you haven't already checked this out, you should start reading it.. (even the first 20 or so pages is PACKED with info. and will teach you a great deal) http://www.t-nation.com/tmagnum/read...58379&pageNo=0 Here you will learn a LOT about the anabolic diet if that is the lifestyle you choose to pursue.. and I for one, love eating this way.

Botch, what schedule are you on? I just read like 80 pages and am only a third of the way thru. Seems like there are lots of variants on that link.

what ratios are you using for protein/carbs/fats? And your overlying calorie goals when cutting?

Help would be much appreciated since you have real experience with it.

[Botch]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Botch, what schedule are you on? I just read like 80 pages and am only a third of the way thru. Seems like there are lots of variants on that link.

what ratios are you using for protein/carbs/fats? And your overlying calorie goals when cutting?

Help would be much appreciated since you have real experience with it.

First of all, I am not an expert on this diet and I have only been AD'ing for a little over 6 weeks. However, I have been reading TONS of research on the subject. This diet is still very new to me I am still playing with the ratios. Also, keep in mind what works for me may not work for you.. you've gotta find your own sweet spot.

I started the diet eating a ratio of 35%Pro/60%Fat/5%Carbs but after gaining a few lbs of fat at the beginning and since then learning that this diet is extremely protein sparing I have cut the ratio back to 25%Pro/70%Fat/5%Carbs. I also cut back processed foods such as bacon and sausage and upped my extra virgin olive oil intake. Since making these changes I have noticed a reduction in bodyfat while in a caloric surplus. I have also been experimenting with different types of carbs and eating different amounts of carbs on the weekend (for example, last weekend I ate ~12,000 calories ). I am currently bulking so unfortunately I will not be of too much assistance with cutting.

Regardless of whether your goal is to bulk or to cut with this diet, you should follow the diet strict for the first 4 weeks at maintainance cals and then you can start to cut and manipulate parts of the diet (such as pro/fat ratios, sources of fats, daily carb intake, types of food eaten during the carb-ups, duration of carb-up, etc.). First your body must become fat adapted. Since I have no real world experience with cutting on this diet you must take my advice with a grain of salt. But what I have seen work very well for other people who cut on this diet is to do caloric cycling during the week and limiting your carb-up to only one day a week.

I hope that was at least semi-helpful.. let me know if you have any more questions since there are a lot of different aspects of this diet to be covered.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by Botch

First of all, I am not an expert on this diet and I have only been AD'ing for a little over 6 weeks. However, I have been reading TONS of research on the subject. This diet is still very new to me I am still playing with the ratios. Also, keep in mind what works for me may not work for you.. you've gotta find your own sweet spot.

I started the diet eating a ratio of 35%Pro/60%Fat/5%Carbs but after gaining a few lbs of fat at the beginning and since then learning that this diet is extremely protein sparing I have cut the ratio back to 25%Pro/70%Fat/5%Carbs. I also cut back processed foods such as bacon and sausage and upped my extra virgin olive oil intake. Since making these changes I have noticed a reduction in bodyfat while in a caloric surplus. I have also been experimenting with different types of carbs and eating different amounts of carbs on the weekend (for example, last weekend I ate ~12,000 calories ). I am currently bulking so unfortunately I will not be of too much assistance with cutting.

Regardless of whether your goal is to bulk or to cut with this diet, you should follow the diet strict for the first 4 weeks at maintainance cals and then you can start to cut and manipulate parts of the diet (such as pro/fat ratios, sources of fats, daily carb intake, types of food eaten during the carb-ups, duration of carb-up, etc.). First your body must become fat adapted. Since I have no real world experience with cutting on this diet you must take my advice with a grain of salt. But what I have seen work very well for other people who cut on this diet is to do caloric cycling during the week and limiting your carb-up to only one day a week.

I hope that was at least semi-helpful.. let me know if you have any more questions since there are a lot of different aspects of this diet to be covered.

No worries Botch, dont expect you to be an expert. Did you use weight x's 18 at your maintanence calories?

How did you have to manage your workouts the first few weeks as you got used to it?

[Botch]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

No worries Botch, dont expect you to be an expert. Did you use weight x's 18 at your maintanence calories?

How did you have to manage your workouts the first few weeks as you got used to it?

I did start at 18x bodyweight. For the first week I stuck with my normal routine and didn't have any problems putting up my usual numbers until the end of the week when I felt the need to go a little lighter on squats. The second week I was doing fine with my normal routine until Thursday hit and suddenly I became a sloppy mess. I could barely get myself up to go to school or do anything. My workout suffered that day but I just did what I could. By the next day I was feeling 100% better and able to do my normal workout. Overall during the first two weeks workouts I noticed an increase in sweating and an increase in muscle soreness after workouts. But workouts were easier than I initially thought they would be during the break-in period.. until you crash, which will only last for about a day (and a lot of people don't get hit as hard as I did anyway).

[Botch]

I see you've done atkins type diets in the past. Are you currently low-carbing right now? If so, you will have a much easier time with the break-in period than I did. I went from a diet of 500+ carbs a day straight into the AD, which made the transition rather difficult.

[Ubiquitous]

Try and see how different variations work on you as an individual.

I have been doing a manner of low carb, CKD dieting for many years. When I started doing it, I didn't even realize what was working or what the science was behind it. I just did it out of intuition..

There was a time where I was in ketosis for months on end. I was emaciated, extremely low body fat. I started using refeeds and after a while my LBM shot back up. Ketosis doesn't necessarily ruin your workouts, it ruins your muscular endurance.. just drop the volume, but keep the intensity and frequency the same. You will feel lethargic during the first stages of ketosis but trust me your energy levels will come back if you keep at it. When you do it in a cyclical manner, unfortunately you will have one day a week of lethargy.

Some people do well with a 5 day deplete, 2 day recomp. Dan Duchaine and Lyle McDonald used this type of approach. Dr. Pasquale is indeed very knowledgeable in regards to diets as well.

Usually I vary my diet depending on my ever-changing goals. Sometimes I prefer to be leaner, other times I prefer to gain more LBM. You can do both at the same time, but to do so will just slow the speed of progress. If you're patient, then it's perfect.