- 12-10-2007, 09:22 AM
I have used variations of aitkens diets in the past that have worked well for weigth loss, but they also ruin my gym workouts.
I am interested in trying carb cycling, but of all the programs i have found via search etc, they vary WIDELY in terms of carbs suggested, days at each intake level, fish oil inclusion, etc.
Does anyone have real life experience with a specific approach, the results they attained, mistakes made, etc?
I know there are a lot of people interested in this topic and would really appreciate you sharing your experience.
- 12-10-2007, 10:26 AM
This is what works for me when I start dieting in the spring. I sort of diet in the off season, but cheat more frequently around the holidays and such. I tend to start serious dieting around spring break (March). The idea behind cycling carbs is the body will burn off fat when glycogen is depleted. However there is a trick to it, you can't go low carb everyday or else you will lose significant muscle mass and just generally feel like sh*t. So in order to avoid or at least minimize that factor, you need to cycle carbs. For simplicity, say you start on a Monday. Now this is what I do, depending on your body weight, you may have to modify it. Now, I weigh 180ish, but will drop down to 165ish in the spring. Monday-Wed Moderate carb days 150-200g/day range. Thurs/Fri Low carb <30g. Saturday/Sunday High carb > 500g/day and perhaps a cheat on either of these days. Now you can get deeper into it to achieve greater fat loss more rapidly, for example go 4 low days, tues-fri then bring glycogen stores back up over the weekend with two high carb days, do a moderate on monday, and go low again for the remainder of the work week. The more low days you have, the more drastic the effects will be. However 2 low days is sufficient for me to keep fat off. The key to carb cycling is the high days, that bring everything back up. You do feel like sh*t on the low days however, that is unavoidable. This method works though, if you stick with it. Great for contest prep.
- 12-10-2007, 10:30 AM
I imagine from the fish oil comment that you've read about Twin Peak's carb cycling. I actually just started that version today.
12-10-2007, 11:05 AM
12-10-2007, 11:08 AM
How do you match up your carb days with workouts? Both weights and cardio. I don't mind cardio at all. I am 230 and want to get to 215. I have my workouts dialed in, supps etc. Just a novice at c cycling.
12-10-2007, 11:10 AM
Well, if you haven't already, I suggest reading through these. TP lays his version out pretty well.
12-10-2007, 11:26 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/tmagnum/read...58379&pageNo=0 Here you will learn a LOT about the anabolic diet if that is the lifestyle you choose to pursue.. and I for one, love eating this way.
12-10-2007, 12:07 PM
12-10-2007, 12:13 PM
12-10-2007, 07:04 PM
what ratios are you using for protein/carbs/fats? And your overlying calorie goals when cutting?
Help would be much appreciated since you have real experience with it.
12-10-2007, 08:07 PM
I started the diet eating a ratio of 35%Pro/60%Fat/5%Carbs but after gaining a few lbs of fat at the beginning and since then learning that this diet is extremely protein sparing I have cut the ratio back to 25%Pro/70%Fat/5%Carbs. I also cut back processed foods such as bacon and sausage and upped my extra virgin olive oil intake. Since making these changes I have noticed a reduction in bodyfat while in a caloric surplus. I have also been experimenting with different types of carbs and eating different amounts of carbs on the weekend (for example, last weekend I ate ~12,000 calories ). I am currently bulking so unfortunately I will not be of too much assistance with cutting.
Regardless of whether your goal is to bulk or to cut with this diet, you should follow the diet strict for the first 4 weeks at maintainance cals and then you can start to cut and manipulate parts of the diet (such as pro/fat ratios, sources of fats, daily carb intake, types of food eaten during the carb-ups, duration of carb-up, etc.). First your body must become fat adapted. Since I have no real world experience with cutting on this diet you must take my advice with a grain of salt. But what I have seen work very well for other people who cut on this diet is to do caloric cycling during the week and limiting your carb-up to only one day a week.
I hope that was at least semi-helpful.. let me know if you have any more questions since there are a lot of different aspects of this diet to be covered.
12-10-2007, 08:29 PM
12-10-2007, 09:07 PM
12-10-2007, 09:12 PM
I see you've done atkins type diets in the past. Are you currently low-carbing right now? If so, you will have a much easier time with the break-in period than I did. I went from a diet of 500+ carbs a day straight into the AD, which made the transition rather difficult.
12-10-2007, 09:27 PM
Try and see how different variations work on you as an individual.
I have been doing a manner of low carb, CKD dieting for many years. When I started doing it, I didn't even realize what was working or what the science was behind it. I just did it out of intuition..
There was a time where I was in ketosis for months on end. I was emaciated, extremely low body fat. I started using refeeds and after a while my LBM shot back up. Ketosis doesn't necessarily ruin your workouts, it ruins your muscular endurance.. just drop the volume, but keep the intensity and frequency the same. You will feel lethargic during the first stages of ketosis but trust me your energy levels will come back if you keep at it. When you do it in a cyclical manner, unfortunately you will have one day a week of lethargy.
Some people do well with a 5 day deplete, 2 day recomp. Dan Duchaine and Lyle McDonald used this type of approach. Dr. Pasquale is indeed very knowledgeable in regards to diets as well.
Usually I vary my diet depending on my ever-changing goals. Sometimes I prefer to be leaner, other times I prefer to gain more LBM. You can do both at the same time, but to do so will just slow the speed of progress. If you're patient, then it's perfect.
12-10-2007, 09:30 PM
12-11-2007, 02:38 PM
this is the info ive been looking for, thaks guys. I think im going to give carb cycling a try
12-11-2007, 02:48 PM
I found Twin Peak's Carb Cycling plan to be effective and very easy to follow...without my workouts suffering much at all.
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12-11-2007, 05:06 PM
I had been on The Metabolic Diet for years, before a short time off of it for about a month. It really sucked when I was off of it. Anyway, The Metabolic Diet is great. I am back on it now, on The Assesment Phase. Yes Anabolic Diet is its former name. Dr. Di Pasquale is great. I recommend purchasing The Metabolic Diet book. There is more to the diet than you think, a lot of details are in the book. The time I was on the diet Mauro will help you out through emails, and you can read a lot on the website. He even helped me out a few times on the phone personally. That is pretty impressive to me. It didn't cost any money to get his personal advice either. He has a few variations of the diet. He also has a book specific to bodybuilders, and one specific to powerlifters. The Metabolic Diet book is the core of the rest of the diets though. I truely stand behind this diet. Can't say enough good things about it.
12-11-2007, 08:15 PM
12-11-2007, 08:43 PM
12-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Steve is very friendly as well and was kind enough to look over my plan through PMs.
12-12-2007, 07:07 AM
Although i had bacon for the first time in literally ten years this AM and i thought i was in heaven!
12-12-2007, 09:21 AM
12-12-2007, 11:37 AM
Fantastic discussion fellas!
Any of you ever use carb cycling for recomp?
Ubiquitous eluded to patience in this case. I'm currently recomping with 40/40/20 ratio and about 12 or 13 cals per pound at 200 pounds (around 2250 cals). The gains are seeming to slow and I'm just browsing for a bit of a boost.
12-12-2007, 01:12 PM
12-12-2007, 01:14 PM
The way I'm doing it is for somewhat of a recomp/mass phase effect. Really, with Twin Peak's style, it's pretty much the same diet set up, just a different amount of High/Low/No carb days per week making the difference between cut and mass phase.
12-12-2007, 03:40 PM
Another sub 20gm carb day today. I'm pretty used to low carbs, so I am hoping I don't crash during the initial shift to using fats for energy. Ten days to go!
12-12-2007, 05:50 PM
12-12-2007, 06:22 PM
12-12-2007, 06:22 PM
12-12-2007, 06:25 PM
12-12-2007, 06:32 PM
Nothing wrong with red meat. Steak once a week, nothing wrong with that either. The sodium filled meats are what you have to watch out for. Processed meats.
"Buy food that spoils, eat it before it spoils" or something like that is the quote anyway. You just have to be creative and eat a variety of meats. Mix it up, sure you can have some processed meats, just limit it. The more variety the better. Try buffalo meat, duck, pork loin, pork chops. Also eat tons and tons of brocolli. Brussels sprouts are good too. I like red meat but I can't always afford my favorite steak...guess what it is?. Oh yeah, cube steaks are good too. Also I eat Wild Salmon, it is much better for you than the farm raised and has less mercury content. Lamb is pretty good too. Sorry now you got me hungry!.
12-12-2007, 06:33 PM
I wish Nutra would carry The Metabolic Diet Supplements. I have tried the Low-Carb Meal Replacement and they are great mixed with low carb milk. Thick as a real milkshake and almost as good, they also keep you full for hours.
12-12-2007, 06:54 PM
T-Bone, I was wondering about how good Dr. DiPasquales supplement line was. Thank you for the input. I've looked at some of the supplements ingredients and it seems they have a very good ingredient profile, the only problem is the high price.
kraftkid, I do experience small carb cravings the day after the carb up. And its not that I really even crave them but more a habit of unconsciously reaching for carbs when I'm hungry, since I had been used to eating them for the two days prior. I don't have any problem putting down the carbs. In fact, come the last night of the carb up I'm really craving fatty foods and can't wait to get back to my scrambled eggs the next morning.
12-12-2007, 07:15 PM
12-13-2007, 11:25 AM
12-15-2007, 01:16 PM
I'm deep in ketosis according to the ketone strips I've got. My pee is turns it several shades darker than the darkest shade on the little chart on the bottle. I feel so good and full of energy I kinda don't want to carb up tommorow!.
12-16-2007, 11:06 AM
Also, I've found getting a couple tablespoons of whole flax seeds is great for keeping the pipes right. Works likes a charm and not nearly as harsh on me as Metamucil, etc.
No question I have lost a lot of fat, enough that it is easily visible (and water). I expected this since Atkins tore fat off me.
12-16-2007, 11:31 AM
Ketosis is not a good thing. After 6 weeks on this diet there should be no ketones in your urine as long as you are sticking to the ~30g of carbs per day and eating enough fats.
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