[Botch]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

You won't. It gets better and worse, depending on the person. I do my first carb up on this coming Sunday. As I said before I went off the diet for about 1.5-2 months and gained a buttload and my IBS symptoms started back up again really bad. Now though the IBS symptoms are pretty much completely gone, I have 10 times the energy I had while I was eating carbs, and feel thiner already!. I am so used to this diet though because I have been on it for 5 years straight, minus this past screw up. After a while you won't even want carbs anymore. The craving just goes away. Look on page 98 of The Metabolic Diet for info if you are feeling like crashing. Also remember a lot of people feel better eating steak and red meats while on the assesment phase of the diet.

Haha yeah I hear ya on the steak and red meats. Dr. DiPas. recommends eating red meat (preferably steak) once a day to help elevate those T levels. However, I wouldn't recommend this for someone who has cholesterol issues. I ate like CRAP during the assessment phase. Since I was craving carbs I felt I needed to satisfy myself some other way so I ate bacon, pepperoni, sausage, ground beef, and a ton of cheese almost everyday. That'll make you bloated from the sodium and feeling like crap super quick. I tend to stay away from processed foods at this point. Now I may have bacon or sausage once a week but thats it (little smokies are my weakness). I've also noticed that I don't crave carbs at all during the week anymore. And I haven't felt the need to eat any junk during my carb-ups for the last two weeks either. Last carb up was almost 100% clean.. okay, maybe more like 80%

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by Botch

Haha yeah I hear ya on the steak and red meats. Dr. DiPas. recommends eating red meat (preferably steak) once a day to help elevate those T levels. However, I wouldn't recommend this for someone who has cholesterol issues. I ate like CRAP during the assessment phase. Since I was craving carbs I felt I needed to satisfy myself some other way so I ate bacon, pepperoni, sausage, ground beef, and a ton of cheese almost everyday. That'll make you bloated from the sodium and feeling like crap super quick. I tend to stay away from processed foods at this point. Now I may have bacon or sausage once a week but thats it (little smokies are my weakness). I've also noticed that I don't crave carbs at all during the week anymore. And I haven't felt the need to eat any junk during my carb-ups for the last two weeks either. Last carb up was almost 100% clean.. okay, maybe more like 80%

Since I have done Aitkens a lot, I am always amazed who once you get past a certain point you just dont feel the need for carbs any more.

After a carb up, do you get mini cravings again? Just curious. I am still ten days out from eating 4 lb of sweet potatos, etc.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by Botch

Haha yeah I hear ya on the steak and red meats. Dr. DiPas. recommends eating red meat (preferably steak) once a day to help elevate those T levels. However, I wouldn't recommend this for someone who has cholesterol issues. I ate like CRAP during the assessment phase. Since I was craving carbs I felt I needed to satisfy myself some other way so I ate bacon, pepperoni, sausage, ground beef, and a ton of cheese almost everyday. That'll make you bloated from the sodium and feeling like crap super quick. I tend to stay away from processed foods at this point. Now I may have bacon or sausage once a week but thats it (little smokies are my weakness). I've also noticed that I don't crave carbs at all during the week anymore. And I haven't felt the need to eat any junk during my carb-ups for the last two weeks either. Last carb up was almost 100% clean.. okay, maybe more like 80%

Nothing wrong with red meat. Steak once a week, nothing wrong with that either. The sodium filled meats are what you have to watch out for. Processed meats.

"Buy food that spoils, eat it before it spoils" or something like that is the quote anyway. You just have to be creative and eat a variety of meats. Mix it up, sure you can have some processed meats, just limit it. The more variety the better. Try buffalo meat, duck, pork loin, pork chops. Also eat tons and tons of brocolli. Brussels sprouts are good too. I like red meat but I can't always afford my favorite steak...guess what it is?. Oh yeah, cube steaks are good too. Also I eat Wild Salmon, it is much better for you than the farm raised and has less mercury content. Lamb is pretty good too. Sorry now you got me hungry!.

[T-Bone]

I wish Nutra would carry The Metabolic Diet Supplements. I have tried the Low-Carb Meal Replacement and they are great mixed with low carb milk. Thick as a real milkshake and almost as good, they also keep you full for hours.

[Botch]

T-Bone, I was wondering about how good Dr. DiPasquales supplement line was. Thank you for the input. I've looked at some of the supplements ingredients and it seems they have a very good ingredient profile, the only problem is the high price.

kraftkid, I do experience small carb cravings the day after the carb up. And its not that I really even crave them but more a habit of unconsciously reaching for carbs when I'm hungry, since I had been used to eating them for the two days prior. I don't have any problem putting down the carbs. In fact, come the last night of the carb up I'm really craving fatty foods and can't wait to get back to my scrambled eggs the next morning.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by Botch

T-Bone, I was wondering about how good Dr. DiPasquales supplement line was. Thank you for the input. I've looked at some of the supplements ingredients and it seems they have a very good ingredient profile, the only problem is the high price.

kraftkid, I do experience small carb cravings the day after the carb up. And its not that I really even crave them but more a habit of unconsciously reaching for carbs when I'm hungry, since I had been used to eating them for the two days prior. I don't have any problem putting down the carbs. In fact, come the last night of the carb up I'm really craving fatty foods and can't wait to get back to my scrambled eggs the next morning.

I'm the same Botch.

[T-Bone]

Bump my thread about Metabolic Diet Supplements, I hope if we get enough interest Nutraplanet will carry them,

Metabolic Diet Supplements

[T-Bone]

I'm deep in ketosis according to the ketone strips I've got. My pee is turns it several shades darker than the darkest shade on the little chart on the bottle. I feel so good and full of energy I kinda don't want to carb up tommorow!.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I'm deep in ketosis according to the ketone strips I've got. My pee is turns it several shades darker than the darkest shade on the little chart on the bottle. I feel so good and full of energy I kinda don't want to carb up tommorow!.

Ditto, just tested this AM and I am definitely into deep ketosis. I feel a lot better then I did on Atkins though. This may be the result of focusing so much on the good fats. I primarily use Fish Oil and Flax.

Also, I've found getting a couple tablespoons of whole flax seeds is great for keeping the pipes right. Works likes a charm and not nearly as harsh on me as Metamucil, etc.

No question I have lost a lot of fat, enough that it is easily visible (and water). I expected this since Atkins tore fat off me.

[Botch]

Ketosis is not a good thing. After 6 weeks on this diet there should be no ketones in your urine as long as you are sticking to the ~30g of carbs per day and eating enough fats.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by Botch

Ketosis is not a good thing. After 6 weeks on this diet there should be no ketones in your urine as long as you are sticking to the ~30g of carbs per day and eating enough fats.

Lot of varying opinions on ketosis. I'm only a few days in, so this was completely expected and desired.

Six weeks in, I still think it is a matter of where you started on the diet. If you are still trying to lose fat, I can't see this as a negative.

I'm not saying you want to be in ketosis for six months, but if you have a good amount of fat to loose.......

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Lot of varying opinions on ketosis. I'm only a few days in, so this was completely expected and desired.

Six weeks in, I still think it is a matter of where you started on the diet. If you are still trying to lose fat, I can't see this as a negative.

I'm not saying you want to be in ketosis for six months, but if you have a good amount of fat to loose.......

exactly.

[Botch]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Lot of varying opinions on ketosis. I'm only a few days in, so this was completely expected and desired.

Six weeks in, I still think it is a matter of where you started on the diet. If you are still trying to lose fat, I can't see this as a negative.

I'm not saying you want to be in ketosis for six months, but if you have a good amount of fat to loose.......

Kraftkid,
I see where you are coming from. Many of the cyclic diets focus on ketosis because they are a short term fix where you only diet for about 6 weeks. I respect yours and anyone elses decision to use the diet in this way. I am sure it is effective at fat loss (but also catabolic).

I disagree with you on a few things. First, you say that you can't see being in ketosis as a negative if your goal is fat loss. It would be wrong to think that you would be burning less fat if you were adapted to the diet rather than being in ketosis. Instead, while you are adapted to the diet you will be using triglycerides and fatty acids for energy. You will be in an anabolic state instead of a catabolic state while you burn fat.
Your second comment is along the same lines as the first. It appears you think it is more beneficial to be in ketosis rather than being an efficient fat burner who hovers just above ketosis. If you would like I can provide evidence to the contrary, but it seems you already have your opinions on ketosis so for now I will leave it at this.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by Botch

Kraftkid,
I see where you are coming from. Many of the cyclic diets focus on ketosis because they are a short term fix where you only diet for about 6 weeks. I respect yours and anyone elses decision to use the diet in this way. I am sure it is effective at fat loss (but also catabolic).

I disagree with you on a few things. First, you say that you can't see being in ketosis as a negative if your goal is fat loss. It would be wrong to think that you would be burning less fat if you were adapted to the diet rather than being in ketosis. Instead, while you are adapted to the diet you will be using triglycerides and fatty acids for energy. You will be in an anabolic state instead of a catabolic state while you burn fat.
Your second comment is along the same lines as the first. It appears you think it is more beneficial to be in ketosis rather than being an efficient fat burner who hovers just above ketosis. If you would like I can provide evidence to the contrary, but it seems you already have your opinions on ketosis so for now I will leave it at this.

Hey Botch. I don't think we are philisophically as far apart as you think we are.

I am not recommending long term ketosis. I am talking about short term ketosis to strip off some fat. Then move to the approach you describe.

I agree that long term, you want to ride the fence, not be in deep ketosis. But, in the short term, there is no question in my mind, that ketosis is much more effective at stripping fat than the fence straddling method.

I view this as a staged process. Strip off fat, then once you are in range of your target, add some carbs back. I have done this many times and for me it works very well with minimal muscle loss, you just can't stretch it too far.

For example, if I went six weeks, I would 2% bodyfat and little muscle left since I am so carb responsive, but for others that may not be true.

I am a big believer in letting your body be your guide. I don't think anyone is going to stay in ketosis if they are wasting away and can't bench a watermelon. At least I hope not.

I'm not an expert, so dont think I am not open to others ideas (which is why I started asking carb cycling questions). Just sharing my opinions.

I don't really put a ton of credence in "studies" however. I work in the medical field and I see every day how studies can be used to support any position the researchers want them to be. Dig into the initial research on Celebrex and Viox.........

To me studies are a starting point, and real world experience is the true test, which is why I dig this forum. Granted a lot of folks on here go a lot more overboard than I do, but there are some SMART folks on here.

[kraftkid]

Originally Posted by kraftkid

Hey Botch. I don't think we are philisophically as far apart as you think we are.

I am not recommending long term ketosis. I am talking about short term ketosis to strip off some fat. Then move to the approach you describe.

I agree that long term, you want to ride the fence, not be in deep ketosis. But, in the short term, there is no question in my mind, that ketosis is much more effective at stripping fat than the fence straddling method.

I view this as a staged process. Strip off fat, then once you are in range of your target, add some carbs back. I have done this many times and for me it works very well with minimal muscle loss, you just can't stretch it too far.

For example, if I went six weeks, I would 2% bodyfat and little muscle left since I am so carb responsive, but for others that may not be true.

I am a big believer in letting your body be your guide. I don't think anyone is going to stay in ketosis if they are wasting away and can't bench a watermelon. At least I hope not.

I'm not an expert, so dont think I am not open to others ideas (which is why I started asking carb cycling questions). Just sharing my opinions.

I don't really put a ton of credence in "studies" however. I work in the medical field and I see every day how studies can be used to support any position the researchers want them to be. Dig into the initial research on Celebrex and Viox.........

To me studies are a starting point, and real world experience is the true test, which is why I dig this forum. Granted a lot of folks on here go a lot more overboard than I do, but there are some SMART folks on here.

One last thing I failed to mention. In my personal experience AGE makes a HUGE difference in how you respond to any approach.

I'm just 34, and many people in in are older, but just in the last five years, I have had to refine things more than every before, because unfortunately, I just dont respond the way I used to