[edwards]

Okie dokie I'm going to start morning cardio 3x a week at 60-65% Max HR for 25-30 minutes. I am going to take 2 Lipotrophin AM and BCAAs 1/2 hour before my run/jog.

How much BCAA should I take? 1 tablespoon of the bulk powder is 6.4 grams.


Thanks. I'm around 16% BF now and want to get to 12ish. Woot

[jonny21]

None.

[C' Dale Rider13]

whats up edward, I was in the same boat as your in about a month ago and this is what I came up with from another post I read.

The best pre fasted cardio stack is
5grams leucine
20mgs Forskolin
200mgs caffiene
500mgs Green tea
1000mgs ALCAR
2 caps New PowerFULL

I been using the above and it is amazing. PowerFULL increases HGH and morning fasted cardio increases HGH to liberate and burn fat.

One of the best times to use powerFULL besides pre workout or pre sleep.

I would not use BCAA's until after cardio because you risk gluconeogenisis which one would not want.

Keep the cardio low intensity (3.5MPH at a 3-5% incline for 30-45 minutes).

Wait 30 minutes(Take a shower) than eat. I would consume BCAAs with meal or shake.

Hope this help, good luck.

David

How much BCAA should I take? 1 tablespoon of the bulk powder is 6.4 grams.


Thanks. I'm around 16% BF now and want to get to 12ish. Woot [/QUO

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by jonny21

None.

I like this version better.

[waimoku]

Originally Posted by edwards

Okie dokie I'm going to start morning cardio 3x a week at 60-65% Max HR for 25-30 minutes. I am going to take 2 Lipotrophin AM and BCAAs 1/2 hour before my run/jog.

How much BCAA should I take? 1 tablespoon of the bulk powder is 6.4 grams.


Thanks. I'm around 16% BF now and want to get to 12ish. Woot

Read the thread: POWERFULL before fasted AM Cardio

It has some info on BCAAs and AM cardio... specifically using leucine and not the mix of BCAAs.

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by C' Dale Rider13

I would not use BCAA's until after cardio because you risk gluconeogenisis which one would not want.

Not a risk. Pretty much a guarentee with fasted am cardio.

[edwards]

Ok great info. Thanks. I'd add the BCAAs to crystal light and just sip on them throughout the day.

[Urban Monk]

Originally Posted by jonny21

Not a risk. Pretty much a guarentee with fasted am cardio.

So what would you recommend jon?

[jonny21]

Actually, if kept at or around 60% or less MHR fasted is fine IMO. If you are planning more intense cardio then carbs are needed.

Either way a small protein shake won't do any harm.

[beebab]

if you are doing low intensity cardio, BCAAs are not necessarily needed b/c your body will prefer to use stored fats as fuel. drinking lots of BCAAs for "fasted" cardio will defeat the purpose of doing "fasted" cardio b/c those aminos will generally be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis. hence, you will burn the aminos in place of fat

for HIIT BCAAs would serve a purpose as they would tend to be utilized for fuel. otherwise, i say wake up drink some water and do a moderate pace jog or brisk walk for about 20-30 min, then eat a well-balanced breakfast. catabolism won't be critical during this period, as long as you eat directly afterward

[waimoku]

Originally Posted by beebab

if you are doing low intensity cardio, BCAAs are not necessarily needed b/c your body will prefer to use stored fats as fuel. drinking lots of BCAAs for "fasted" cardio will defeat the purpose of doing "fasted" cardio b/c those aminos will generally be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis. hence, you will burn the aminos in place of fat

for HIIT BCAAs would serve a purpose as they would tend to be utilized for fuel. otherwise, i say wake up drink some water and do a moderate pace jog or brisk walk for about 20-30 min, then eat a well-balanced breakfast. catabolism won't be critical during this period, as long as you eat directly afterward

Although most BCAA are gluconegenic, Leucine is not.

Originally Posted by USPLabs
BCAA's can be turned into glucose via gluconeogenisis. Leucine alone from my understanding can not but leucine forces protein synthesis.
I asked tha Amino Acid Master and it's been validated. It was tha first I actually heard of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
valine: gluconeogenic
isoleucine: gluconeogenic and ketogenic
leucine: ketogenic

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by beebab

for HIIT BCAAs would serve a purpose as they would tend to be utilized for fuel.

only as an expensive glucose source.

[beebab]

Originally Posted by waimoku

Although most BCAA are gluconegenic, Leucine is not.

Originally Posted by USPLabs
BCAA's can be turned into glucose via gluconeogenisis. Leucine alone from my understanding can not but leucine forces protein synthesis.
I asked tha Amino Acid Master and it's been validated. It was tha first I actually heard of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
valine: gluconeogenic
isoleucine: gluconeogenic and ketogenic
leucine: ketogenic

can you clarify what you mean by leucine being "ketogenic?" does this imply that leucine itself will then convert to fat?

i doubt Leucine's ability to engender significant fat burning during morning cardio. yes, it does AID in protein synthesis, but this is best before and after a heavy weight workout as the Leucine will reduce the degradation of proteins within muscle. muscles break down during heavy resistance exercise, not necessarily during a modest fasted cardio session.

from personal experience, i get full and bloated after taking a high dose of Leucine (10+ grams)...

[waimoku]

Originally Posted by beebab

can you clarify what you mean by leucine being "ketogenic?" does this imply that leucine itself will then convert to fat?

i doubt Leucine's ability to engender significant fat burning during morning cardio. yes, it does AID in protein synthesis, but this is best before and after a heavy weight workout as the Leucine will reduce the degradation of proteins within muscle. muscles break down during heavy resistance exercise, not necessarily during a modest fasted cardio session.

from personal experience, i get full and bloated after taking a high dose of Leucine (10+ grams)...

please refer to http://bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm

Personally I don't take 10+ grams. I usually only shoot for 4-5 grams in the am before fasted cardio. Also taking Leucine is not to "engender significant fat burning", it is to prevent muscle catabolism; I take DCP in addition to do that. Also my fasted am cardio is mostly moderate pace (45 minutes at ~130 HR) with some HIIT mixed in (usually 10-15 minutes in the above 45 minutes - heart rate approximately up to 150+).

[beebab]

Originally Posted by waimoku

please refer to http://bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm

Personally I don't take 10+ grams. I usually only shoot for 4-5 grams in the am before fasted cardio. Also taking Leucine is not to "engender significant fat burning", it is to prevent muscle catabolism; I take DCP in addition to do that. Also my fasted am cardio is mostly moderate pace (45 minutes at ~130 HR) with some HIIT mixed in (usually 10-15 minutes in the above 45 minutes - heart rate approximately up to 150+).

my bad, I didn't exactly explain myself too clearly. supposing Leucine is ketogenic, what I meant by "fat burning" was that Leucine would help set off a signal in the body to burn more adipose tissue. what i am saying is that i doubt Leucine's ability to do this on its own, w/o first seeing some clinical studies proving this true.

grant it, a couple grams before morning cardio will not hurt to prevent muscle catabolism. but my basic argument is that one should not be so worried about muscle breakdown during a "light-moderate" fasted cardio, as long as the sessions are kept to a minimum (i.e. 15-20 min max) and you ingest a well-balanced, complete breakfast directly afterward. BCAAs would really only serve a significant purpose if one is doing HIIT or fast-paced cardio, where the fuel provided by the BCAAs would prevent significant muscle catabolism during that highly intensive w/o period. although, in this context, you're better off eating some kind of carbohydrate for fuel

BCAAs serve a purpose. i just think they're overrated in terms of using them to "quickly blunt catabolism dead in its tracks" so to speak. research shows that if you supplement with a modest amount of BCAAs pre workout, they will help reduce protein breakdown within muscles. by the same token during PWO, it stands to reason, they will also help expedite recovery.

if you use them at any other time they're just extra cals that you're likely to piss out

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by beebab

although, in this context, you're better off eating some kind of carbohydrate for fuel

Now your on point.

Originally Posted by beebab

if you use them at any other time they're just extra cals that you're likely to piss out

Actually, you'll only piss out amino acids if you have some sort of renal dysfunction or genetic disorder.. They'll be utilized one way or another.