Im ditching my keto diet

[ItsHectic]

I have gone from a pcf of 150:150:33 calorie deficit to a 150:20:90 calorie deficit, I cant sleep at night and I havent had a decent crap ever since starting it, despite metamucil and broccoli servings, but worst of all my strength has dropped. I am starting to think all the ketones in my piss are coming from those 90 grams of fat Im taking in, and my muscles are losing strength from the lack of carbs.
I sound like im whining, and I know I havent given it long enough but I wouldnt be changing my mind if I hadnt just read Tom Venutos view on keto diets.
Im going back to the drawing board, rereading BTFFTM and following it all the way.

 

[Nitrox]

Kudos for posting your experience with ultra-low carb dieting. The number of KD yeah-sayers has me wondering if it is some kind of cult. :lol:

 

[TripDog]

fukc that ****!! you need carbies bro............do bananas have carbs??????

the answer is you dam right they do!!!

so in retrospect.....can your sh!t be bananas without carbs???

ANSWER- NO

~trippy nanas

 

[Nitrox]

fukc that ****!! you need carbies bro............do bananas have carbs??????

the answer is you dam right they do!!!

so in retrospect.....can your sh!t be bananas without carbs???

ANSWER- NO

~trippy nanas

Damn Trip! Best pro-carb post ever. Reps :thumbsup:

 

[ItsHectic]

LOL I actually read that bananas on a keto diet can actually contribute to constipation.

 

[BigVrunga]

When I was 240, I used a keto diet to get down to 225. It worked fast, but my strength went through the floor. After I read Venutos book I got down to 210, and maintained my strength just fine.

BV

 

[Lander]

I had a similar experience, but I ran Keto for 3 months straight, with carb ups every 3 weeks. Went from 225 to 200 and dont regret doing it, but I lost alot of mass. I also was tripped out by the craps... I would have a goat pellet size one once about every 3 days. I learned to accept it as part of the diet.

 

[thesinner]

From my experiences going keto/not keto, I find that my muscles are fuller looking when I take in an appreciable amount of carbs.

 

[45Caliber]

Too many carbs make me sluggish.

Are you eating enough total calories? I've never gotten weaker while going low-carb. Then again, I usually do a carb up day once a week or once every two weeks (depending on goals, etc).
If you haven't given up on low carbs completely, you should look into a cyclical keto diet.

 

[ItsHectic]

I have given up on low carb, I was expecting my weight to drop and strength to stay the same like most say but I actually put on a lb or 2 of fat.
I think I was doing CKD except it only lasted 4 days, I was gonna carb up today.
My body has always responded very well to low fat diets.

 

[macedaddy]

BTFFTM is an AWESOME BOOK!

 

[TripDog]

BTFFTM is an AWESOME BOOK!

oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)

 

[macedaddy]

oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)

the tom venuto book doesn't advocate low carbs! Trip i know you never learned to read, but have trauma read it TO YOU! It's good! :rofl:

 

[ItsHectic]

The baseline diet in the book is pcf 25:55:20 - 30:50:20

 

[BigVrunga]

BTFFTM is an AWESOME BOOK!

That's the damn truth right there....

 

[TripDog]

the tom venuto book doesn't advocate low carbs! Trip i know you never learned to read, but have trauma read it TO YOU! It's good! :rofl:

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[nphocus]

Learn your body first

If you are weak and sluggish on a "low carb" diet, try measuring your Complete Total carb intake again. Even eggs have carbs. Broccolli has carbs. I was on a low carb diet, sub 200gr of carbs for about a month, I cut 15lbs, but I felt like ish and my lifts weren't any better. Funny thing about individuals and carbs. Your Fvcking brain thinks it needs them, just like small children think they need candy. They're both wrong. Your brain tells your body to either burn carbs, or burn fat/ketones (ketogenic diet). Depending on how carb sensative you are, you may be confusing the fvck out of your brain and it may be cycling constantly between the two. Second thing about low carb AND no carb. When you go that route, you run the risk of depleting your liver's levels of T3, which require actual carbohydrates to produce, whereas your fvcking brain can run off of Carbs OR Ketones/Fat, but not both. That transistion(ing) is what makes you feel blah.

Instead of low carb, I strongly suggest trying No Carbs, like no ****ing carbs at ****ing all. Try to keep it under 25gr. Switch to a wpi that should have no carbs or less than 5. Increase your fat intake to at least 15-20%, but not just ****ing fat fat, eat the good fats. Flax seed oil, fish oil, EFA and olive oil are your new best friend. If you felt like **** on low carbs, try no carbs before you give up on Ketogenic diets.

One thing to note, a cheat meal once per week is REQUIRED, not ****ing optional. That meal will replenish your liver's T3 levels and keep you growing. I feel great on no carbs and my lifts are better and I don't feel tired or blah.

Try it for 4 days and see how you feel. If you don't feel great by the 4th day, please flame me publicly.

 

[Bionic]

oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)

I got to the shape in my avvy with 0 carbs. Took a couple months and I kick-started it w/GXR but it works and it works well. I actually feel better and my muscles are harder while on 0 carbs.

 

[TripDog]

I got to the shape in my avvy with 0 carbs. Took a couple months and I kick-started it w/GXR but it works and it works well. I actually feel better and my muscles are harder while on 0 carbs.

and do you actually enjoy life this way????

 

[Bionic]

Yeah, pretty much. I just do what needs to be done to get what I want. I have a bottle of AP that I keep around to get me back into ketosis if I eat too many carbs. I just really enjoy the way I feel so that's enough for me to stay strict.

 

[nphocus]

Yeah, pretty much. I just do what needs to be done to get what I want. I have a bottle of AP that I keep around to get me back into ketosis if I eat too many carbs. I just really enjoy the way I feel so that's enough for me to stay strict.

AP? When I carb up I just preload on banaba extract and sativa Mitzorblahblah. That ensures the carbs go to muscle and the fat stays bloodborne and isn't deposited.

What are you taking to accelerate ketosis? I'm very curious? I would think you would want something like Yellow Gold.

 

[TripDog]

Yeah, pretty much. I just do what needs to be done to get what I want. I have a bottle of AP that I keep around to get me back into ketosis if I eat too many carbs. I just really enjoy the way I feel so that's enough for me to stay strict.

you look great bro...and self worth stems from how you feel about yourself...imo.......i usually keep carbs onthe low side but im on a cycle now and i need the calories.....stay focused bro:thumbsup:

 

[Trauma1]

the tom venuto book doesn't advocate low carbs! Trip i know you never learned to read, but have trauma read it TO YOU! It's good! :rofl:

This was trips mentality as a kid







just kiddin little bro ...but you did do good with those "see spot run" books:lol:

 

[NYhomeboy]

diet is such an individual thing... in terms of losing strength/muscle mass on low carb... i go on intensemuscle's community a lot, and there're are a ton of powerlifters who do little to no carbs most days, then do a carb load once per week. a lot of guys even run mass programs like DC on minimal carbs.

I know that I absolutely cannot function on more than 100+ carbs per day. I get extremely sluggish, do not feel like working out, sleepy, and bloated. On as little as 200g CLEAN carbs a day, I bloat very badly after a few days like this, and I'm about 195-200 lbs. while I do feel more depleted if going low carb for too long, it's nothing that a refeed won't fix.

 

[julius kelp]

no carbs=no glycogen doesn't it? if it works for YOU mo power to ya.

 

[Distilled Water]

I have gone from a pcf of 150:150:33 calorie deficit to a 150:20:90 calorie deficit, I cant sleep at night and I havent had a decent crap ever since starting it, despite metamucil and broccoli servings, but worst of all my strength has dropped. I am starting to think all the ketones in my piss are coming from those 90 grams of fat Im taking in, and my muscles are losing strength from the lack of carbs.
I sound like im whining, and I know I havent given it long enough but I wouldnt be changing my mind if I hadnt just read Tom Venutos view on keto diets.
Im going back to the drawing board, rereading BTFFTM and following it all the way.

Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.

 

[Bionic]

AP? ...
What are you taking to accelerate ketosis? I'm very curious? I would think you would want something like Yellow Gold.

AP is Anabolic Pump which is what, I believe, YG evolved into. I gotta say, it works! Before the birth of USP's products, I used Glucophase XR from DS and it accomplished the same goal. It's great to not have to wait up to 4 days to get into ketosis.

you look great bro...and self worth stems from how you feel about yourself...imo.......i usually keep carbs onthe low side but im on a cycle now and i need the calories.....stay focused bro.

Thanks for the kind words, brother. But that pic was taken about 5 years ago. LOL. I think I'm a bit more dense and full nowadays and want to start focusing on training my cardio more. But 14 hour workdays are kicking my, soon to be, 38 year old ass!!!

no carbs=no glycogen doesn't it?

Nope. I believe there is sound evidence that your body (you) will convert some protein into glycogen. Don't get me wrong guys. I LOVES ME SOME CARBS!!! But not eating them (most of the time) makes me feel better and gives me better energy. Plus I love having PYT's flirting with me!

 

[CryingEmo]

oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)

I saw that!

 

[jonny21]

I have a bottle of AP that I keep around to get me back into ketosis if I eat too many carbs.

Please expound on this.

 

[TripDog]

I saw that!

i said NOT YOU pecker!!!...now i take that back.........all emos are gay!!!!!...................:toofunny:

 

[thesinner]

Clear you PM box, you Trogdor-f*cker. Before I burninate your ass!

 

[ItsHectic]

Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.

I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.

 

[Distilled Water]

I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.

Ok I see what you mean, but I think once week 2 roles around is when strength starts to go back up because you have switched full swing from carbs to fat, no to mention that is real real low on cals ecspecially on a no carb diet w/ modrate fat. Those were probably the big factors in giving you the great loss of strength. You were also on the real low end of fat. I can see why you'd jump off the diet with a big loss of strength.

Im just pointing this out incase someone who's looking into CKD doesnt get discouraged if they come across this thread. Nothing agaisnt you.

 

[Bionic]

Please expound on this.

Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.

 

[jonny21]

Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.

That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.

 

[Bionic]

That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.

Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.

 

[jonny21]

Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.

I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.

 

[Nitrox]

I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.

I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.

 

[jonny21]

I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.

Yes it is. It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.

 

[Nitrox]

Stores of readily available glucose to supply the tissues with an oxidizable energy source are found principally in the liver, as glycogen. A second major source of stored glucose is the glycogen of skeletal muscle. However, muscle glycogen is not generally available to other tissues, because muscle lacks the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase.

the activity of hexokinase in muscle is so high that any free glucose is immediately phosphorylated and enters the glycolytic pathway. Indeed, the precise reason for the temporary appearance of the free glucose from glycogen is the need of the skeletal muscle cell to generate energy from glucose oxidation, thereby, precluding any chance of the glucose entering the blood.

Full article at : http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/glycogen.html

 

[Nitrox]

It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.

That is what I meant, not going to state the obvious.

I agree with your conclusion that muscle might have available glucose but other body functions will not. Hence they have to resort to fat for energy.

 

[NYhomeboy]

ketosis is dependent upon liver glycogen, not muscular. hence why you're supposed to stay away from fructose on CKD. I really wish c-k-d.com didn't shut down because this has been discussed over and over again there w/ many sources.

also to those thinking about running CKD, don't obsess w/ trying to get into ketosis. i've tried it w/ obsession and without, and as long as the ratios were good results were always the same

 

[krogtaar]

I second using Anabolic pump to help with carbing up. I only had marginal results using it to bulk at 2 caps per day (to avoid digestivbe problems), but using it for carbing up i feel lets me eat less calories from carbs and still get the strength and energy back

 

[BigVrunga]

http://www.c-k-d.com/ is still up....

 

[Distilled Water]

They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting

 

[macedaddy]

They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting

maybe your drugs wore off...........:jaw: :blink: :toofunny:

 

[Al Shades]

oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)

Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.

 

[Nitrox]

It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.

Gimme a break...

 

[Distilled Water]

Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.

yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.

 

[Al Shades]

yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.

I'm wll aware of the research and conventional wisdom surrounding carbs. It can basically be summed up as, "you need them for energy". I disagree for various reasons and based on alternative nutrition theories which I've encountered.

But I'm not going to push it at the moment. I'm more interested in learning about anabolic pump and p-slin as they relate to low carb diets.