[thesinner]

Clear you PM box, you Trogdor-f*cker. Before I burninate your ass!

[ItsHectic]

Originally Posted by Distilled Water

Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.

I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.

[Distilled Water]

Originally Posted by ItsHectic

I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.

Ok I see what you mean, but I think once week 2 roles around is when strength starts to go back up because you have switched full swing from carbs to fat, no to mention that is real real low on cals ecspecially on a no carb diet w/ modrate fat. Those were probably the big factors in giving you the great loss of strength. You were also on the real low end of fat. I can see why you'd jump off the diet with a big loss of strength.

Im just pointing this out incase someone who's looking into CKD doesnt get discouraged if they come across this thread. Nothing agaisnt you.

[Bionic]

Originally Posted by jonny21

Please expound on this.

Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by Bionic

Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.

That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.

[Bionic]

Originally Posted by jonny21

That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.

Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by Bionic

Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.

I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by jonny21

I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.

I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.

Yes it is. It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.

[Nitrox]

Stores of readily available glucose to supply the tissues with an oxidizable energy source are found principally in the liver, as glycogen. A second major source of stored glucose is the glycogen of skeletal muscle. However, muscle glycogen is not generally available to other tissues, because muscle lacks the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase.

the activity of hexokinase in muscle is so high that any free glucose is immediately phosphorylated and enters the glycolytic pathway. Indeed, the precise reason for the temporary appearance of the free glucose from glycogen is the need of the skeletal muscle cell to generate energy from glucose oxidation, thereby, precluding any chance of the glucose entering the blood.

Full article at : http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/glycogen.html

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by jonny21

It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.

That is what I meant, not going to state the obvious.

I agree with your conclusion that muscle might have available glucose but other body functions will not. Hence they have to resort to fat for energy.

[NYhomeboy]

ketosis is dependent upon liver glycogen, not muscular. hence why you're supposed to stay away from fructose on CKD. I really wish c-k-d.com didn't shut down because this has been discussed over and over again there w/ many sources.

also to those thinking about running CKD, don't obsess w/ trying to get into ketosis. i've tried it w/ obsession and without, and as long as the ratios were good results were always the same

[krogtaar]

I second using Anabolic pump to help with carbing up. I only had marginal results using it to bulk at 2 caps per day (to avoid digestivbe problems), but using it for carbing up i feel lets me eat less calories from carbs and still get the strength and energy back

[BigVrunga]

http://www.c-k-d.com/ is still up....

[Distilled Water]

They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting