Im ditching my keto diet

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    I have gone from a pcf of 150:150:33 calorie deficit to a 150:20:90 calorie deficit, I cant sleep at night and I havent had a decent crap ever since starting it, despite metamucil and broccoli servings, but worst of all my strength has dropped. I am starting to think all the ketones in my piss are coming from those 90 grams of fat Im taking in, and my muscles are losing strength from the lack of carbs.
    I sound like im whining, and I know I havent given it long enough but I wouldnt be changing my mind if I hadnt just read Tom Venutos view on keto diets.
    Im going back to the drawing board, rereading BTFFTM and following it all the way.
    Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

    But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative


  2. Quote Originally Posted by nphocus View Post
    AP? ...
    What are you taking to accelerate ketosis? I'm very curious? I would think you would want something like Yellow Gold.
    AP is Anabolic Pump which is what, I believe, YG evolved into. I gotta say, it works! Before the birth of USP's products, I used Glucophase XR from DS and it accomplished the same goal. It's great to not have to wait up to 4 days to get into ketosis.

    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog
    you look great bro...and self worth stems from how you feel about yourself...imo.......i usually keep carbs onthe low side but im on a cycle now and i need the calories.....stay focused bro.
    Thanks for the kind words, brother. But that pic was taken about 5 years ago. LOL. I think I'm a bit more dense and full nowadays and want to start focusing on training my cardio more. But 14 hour workdays are kicking my, soon to be, 38 year old ass!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by julius kelp
    no carbs=no glycogen doesn't it?
    Nope. I believe there is sound evidence that your body (you) will convert some protein into glycogen. Don't get me wrong guys. I LOVES ME SOME CARBS!!! But not eating them (most of the time) makes me feel better and gives me better energy. Plus I love having PYT's flirting with me!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)
    I saw that!

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    I have a bottle of AP that I keep around to get me back into ketosis if I eat too many carbs.
    Please expound on this.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  5. Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I saw that!
    i said NOT YOU pecker!!!...now i take that back.........all emos are gay!!!!!...................
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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  6. Clear you PM box, you Trogdor-f*cker. Before I burninate your ass!
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

    But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.
    I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.
    Ok I see what you mean, but I think once week 2 roles around is when strength starts to go back up because you have switched full swing from carbs to fat, no to mention that is real real low on cals ecspecially on a no carb diet w/ modrate fat. Those were probably the big factors in giving you the great loss of strength. You were also on the real low end of fat. I can see why you'd jump off the diet with a big loss of strength.

    Im just pointing this out incase someone who's looking into CKD doesnt get discouraged if they come across this thread. Nothing agaisnt you.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  9. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Please expound on this.
    Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.
    That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  11. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.
    Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.
    I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.
    I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.
    Yes it is. It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  15. Stores of readily available glucose to supply the tissues with an oxidizable energy source are found principally in the liver, as glycogen. A second major source of stored glucose is the glycogen of skeletal muscle. However, muscle glycogen is not generally available to other tissues, because muscle lacks the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase.

    the activity of hexokinase in muscle is so high that any free glucose is immediately phosphorylated and enters the glycolytic pathway. Indeed, the precise reason for the temporary appearance of the free glucose from glycogen is the need of the skeletal muscle cell to generate energy from glucose oxidation, thereby, precluding any chance of the glucose entering the blood.

    Full article at : http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/glycogen.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.
    That is what I meant, not going to state the obvious.

    I agree with your conclusion that muscle might have available glucose but other body functions will not. Hence they have to resort to fat for energy.

  17. ketosis is dependent upon liver glycogen, not muscular. hence why you're supposed to stay away from fructose on CKD. I really wish c-k-d.com didn't shut down because this has been discussed over and over again there w/ many sources.

    also to those thinking about running CKD, don't obsess w/ trying to get into ketosis. i've tried it w/ obsession and without, and as long as the ratios were good results were always the same

  18. I second using Anabolic pump to help with carbing up. I only had marginal results using it to bulk at 2 caps per day (to avoid digestivbe problems), but using it for carbing up i feel lets me eat less calories from carbs and still get the strength and energy back

  19. They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting
    maybe your drugs wore off...........

  21. Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)
    Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.
    Gimme a break...

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.
    yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

    Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

    Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.
    I'm wll aware of the research and conventional wisdom surrounding carbs. It can basically be summed up as, "you need them for energy". I disagree for various reasons and based on alternative nutrition theories which I've encountered.

    But I'm not going to push it at the moment. I'm more interested in learning about anabolic pump and p-slin as they relate to low carb diets.
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