Im ditching my keto diet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Thats only ~1500 cals a day. How much do you weigh? From what I have gatherd on CKD if you have 150lbs of lean body mass you should be eating roughly 175gr on fat a day also. Not to mention you only gave it 4 days and it usually takes about 12 to get everything normal from the drastic change. JMO

    But I agree with alot of the other guys when they say you just have to learn your body. If you feel you gave it your best shot then hey now you know CKD ain't for you.
    I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    I do have about 150lb of LBM, I didnt want to go up on calories, I was already on 1500cal per day which was probly not enough for me but I wasnt doing cardio at the time(starting fasted cardio tommorow). I wanted to compare how my body reacts to low carbs diet and low fat diet. I dont think I gave it my best shot but I the strength drop and the lack of a drop in water weight was enough for me.
    Ok I see what you mean, but I think once week 2 roles around is when strength starts to go back up because you have switched full swing from carbs to fat, no to mention that is real real low on cals ecspecially on a no carb diet w/ modrate fat. Those were probably the big factors in giving you the great loss of strength. You were also on the real low end of fat. I can see why you'd jump off the diet with a big loss of strength.

    Im just pointing this out incase someone who's looking into CKD doesnt get discouraged if they come across this thread. Nothing agaisnt you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Please expound on this.
    Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    Well, it's supposed to drive all of the glucose from carbs into muscles and away from fat so I dose 15 mins before a carb meal and 1 about an hour later. I use keto-stix to tell me if I'm burning ketones or not and I can get back into ketosis in less than a day rather than 36-48 hours. So, I don't use it in the traditional fashion but since it's a little pricey, this way works for me.
    That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    That is the thing I do not understand. Ketosis is dependant upon being glycogen depleted. If you are using AP to shuttle the glucose into cells glycogen is still available. So the reasoning appears flawed.
    Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionic View Post
    Hmmm! I see your point and while I never considered it, maybe ketosis isn't dependent upon glycogen muscle stores so much as it is dependent upon glucose in the blood. This really isn't my area of expertise but it has been working for me, so far.
    I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing re: glycogen stores. Maybe it is contingent on liver glycogen stores. I am not sure of glucagon's effect on muscle glycogen stores. Looks like I'll be doing some reading.
    I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I thought that I read somewhere that glucose to muscle glycogen is a one-way conversion. It cannot be liberated once stored. Whereas it is a reversible process for liver stores. I'll take a stab at finding the source.
    Yes it is. It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.
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    Stores of readily available glucose to supply the tissues with an oxidizable energy source are found principally in the liver, as glycogen. A second major source of stored glucose is the glycogen of skeletal muscle. However, muscle glycogen is not generally available to other tissues, because muscle lacks the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase.

    the activity of hexokinase in muscle is so high that any free glucose is immediately phosphorylated and enters the glycolytic pathway. Indeed, the precise reason for the temporary appearance of the free glucose from glycogen is the need of the skeletal muscle cell to generate energy from glucose oxidation, thereby, precluding any chance of the glucose entering the blood.

    Full article at : http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/glycogen.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    It is only utilized for local energy needs. I just didn't think that ketosis kicked in until glycogen depletion but i guess i was wrong. It is liver glycogen depletion that starts the process.
    That is what I meant, not going to state the obvious.

    I agree with your conclusion that muscle might have available glucose but other body functions will not. Hence they have to resort to fat for energy.
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    ketosis is dependent upon liver glycogen, not muscular. hence why you're supposed to stay away from fructose on CKD. I really wish c-k-d.com didn't shut down because this has been discussed over and over again there w/ many sources.

    also to those thinking about running CKD, don't obsess w/ trying to get into ketosis. i've tried it w/ obsession and without, and as long as the ratios were good results were always the same
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    I second using Anabolic pump to help with carbing up. I only had marginal results using it to bulk at 2 caps per day (to avoid digestivbe problems), but using it for carbing up i feel lets me eat less calories from carbs and still get the strength and energy back
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    They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    They must have just changed it beccause it wasn't working 2 weeks ago. It sent you to some weird jap/chinese writting
    maybe your drugs wore off...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    oh god they got you too...........people you need carbs unless you wana look like some emo homo(not you crying emo)
    Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.
    Gimme a break...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Emo? The majority of those people follow very high carbohydrate, low fat diets. The reality is 180 degrees away from what you describe. It doesn't take any balls whatsoever to eat a high carb diet. It takes balls to eat nothing but fat and protein.

    You DON'T need carbs, unless you want to be fat and unhealthy.
    yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

    Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    yea man take a chill pill, (not the drug I was on while looking for c-k-d.com)

    Thats an absurd statment. You need to do some research about the carb comment, son.
    I'm wll aware of the research and conventional wisdom surrounding carbs. It can basically be summed up as, "you need them for energy". I disagree for various reasons and based on alternative nutrition theories which I've encountered.

    But I'm not going to push it at the moment. I'm more interested in learning about anabolic pump and p-slin as they relate to low carb diets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    I'm wll aware of the research and conventional wisdom surrounding carbs. It can basically be summed up as, "you need them for energy". I disagree for various reasons and based on alternative nutrition theories which I've encountered.

    But I'm not going to push it at the moment. I'm more interested in learning about anabolic pump and p-slin as they relate to low carb diets.
    X2. From What I'm reading, Yellow Gold by Nutraplanet is one of the key ingredients in anabolic pump and p-slin... What I believe it does is push all of the glycogen out of the liver. The liver glycogen levels are what the brain goes by to decide if it's going to burn ketones or carbs. I picked up some keto test strips and have a 150gr of yellow gold enroute. I am going to test that theory and see how fast/long it takes for YG to push you from carbs to ketones and also to see if it can push you to higher levels of ketosis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nphocus View Post
    X2. From What I'm reading, Yellow Gold by Nutraplanet is one of the key ingredients in anabolic pump and p-slin... What I believe it does is push all of the glycogen out of the liver. The liver glycogen levels are what the brain goes by to decide if it's going to burn ketones or carbs. I picked up some keto test strips and have a 150gr of yellow gold enroute. I am going to test that theory and see how fast/long it takes for YG to push you from carbs to ketones and also to see if it can push you to higher levels of ketosis.
    looking forward to this.......
    i ahve anabolic pump here......are you saying to use it ONLY on the carb up days? or throughout the CKD? Because, if you do not take it with ENOUGH carbs, you get the ANABOLIC DUMP!
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    only on carb up days.

    I'm testing Neovar so after my go with that I think I'll be able to decied what to use on my carb up days. I'll let you know mace which one I prefer as I have used AP & YG both.

    Mace, when you gonna start CKD?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    only on carb up days.

    I'm testing Neovar so after my go with that I think I'll be able to decied what to use on my carb up days. I'll let you know mace which one I prefer as I have used AP & YG both.

    Mace, when you gonna start CKD?
    SOON (tomorrow)

    i think i have everything lined up correctly.

    2253 cals per day, 150.24 P, 10C, 179.18g fat.

    carb ups will be 300g carbs on sat and sun.

    I have the lyle mcdonald book and have been lurking on c-k-d site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    SOON (tomorrow)

    i think i have everything lined up correctly.

    2253 cals per day, 150.24 P, 10C, 179.18g fat.

    carb ups will be 300g carbs on sat and sun.

    I have the lyle mcdonald book and have been lurking on c-k-d site.
    As have I, well after I got off the drugs that is.

    Thats sounds awsome, other than you may wanna only do a 24hr carb up the first few weeks just to get a feel for your body's reaction to ckd.

    Whats your training/supps. going to look like?
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    i have a new routine coming from a friend of mine.

    supps will be an AX stack that includes, SDNG, XXX(shhh, its a secret ), Stim X, Mass FX, and possibly the new creatine we got coming out next year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    SOON (tomorrow)

    i think i have everything lined up correctly.

    2253 cals per day, 150.24 P, 10C, 179.18g fat.

    carb ups will be 300g carbs on sat and sun.

    I have the lyle mcdonald book and have been lurking on c-k-d site.
    Why the two days of carb ups? from what I understood, and I could be wrong, you only need a single carb meal per week to refresh liver T3 levels. I would also caution listening to your body when you are doing 5 days no carbs, 2 days with carbs, the transition between each of the two phases can be rough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nphocus View Post
    Why the two days of carb ups? from what I understood, and I could be wrong, you only need a single carb meal per week to refresh liver T3 levels. I would also caution listening to your body when you are doing 5 days no carbs, 2 days with carbs, the transition between each of the two phases can be rough.
    Everybody's different. If you handle carbs well than 36hr is great for a carb up.

    The idea is once your body has totally switched to useing fat for fuel the days following carb up days should be fine. You may get a little drowgey on carb up days but by keeping fat pretty high stil you should be alright.
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