What is the best exercising for an endomorph to cut? Provided diet and supplements are correct.
Long low intensity cardio sessions are drawn out and boring as hell. You burn the calories while you're on whatever lame piece of technology you workout on and your metabolism drops off back to normal pretty fast.Low intensity long cardio sessions.
For sure Conan. Something I've always wondered as well... Why do something if it's not fun? And as far as low intensity activity is concerned, why do something half ass? Let alone 1/4 ass...Thanks for the info
Long low intensity cardio sessions are drawn out and boring as hell. You burn the calories while you're on whatever lame piece of technology you workout on and your metabolism drops off back to normal pretty fast.
HIT training my friend. You'll kick your cardio into overdrive by doing this as well. The exercises are anaerobic, yes, but they still increase your cardio training capacity. Look up HIT training online and check out the true HIT programs developed by trainers that aren't offering programs that you need to be on roids for. Check out Fred Fornicolas website. He is one of my mentors. He has a blog with a ton of ideas for training.
Do low intensity cardio sessions and end up like one of those fat bastards who dedicates his time to coming in everyday and will always remain fat. Know what I'm talking about? Yes, the fat oblivious guy who can barely contain his contempt for his lack of progress. I personally find planned low intensity cardio sessions POINTLESS. Sure, give me articles that say stuff on how it MAY do this and that... lower cortisol levels, better fat targeting, blah blah blah... it's crap. Save low intensity cardio sessions for walks on the beach with a special girl... or hiking... or a leisurely bike ride. Make sure you're dieting properly (eating sensibly) and you're eating the right foods at the right times. Train HIT.
Where did you pull the extra I out of? There's a difference between HIT (High Intensity Training) and HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training).Whatever. I have tried both. I believe low-intensity cardio to be better for fat burning. H.I.I.T. is ok sure, but just because everyone elese is doing it doesn't mean its the best option. Sure I can go and look up all these stupid articles and studies but I'm not gonna do that. There are a lot of people on here that prefer low intensisty cardio. You are young though so I guess you follow the trends which is exactly what H.I.I.T. is, a trend. People were doing low-intensity cardio before you born, its tried and true. I suppose its the same with the people that use CEE instead of creatine MONO....
Where did you pull the extra I out of? There's a difference between HIT (High Intensity Training) and HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training).
Let's not make assumptions here my friend You make age seem like it's a shame. I'm 24, so therefore I follow trends. Wow. The trend I'm seeing lately are a bunch of fools walking on a damn treadmill reading magazines, watching TV on LCD screens and talking on a cell phone. That's called low intensity cardio. I could get a better workout vacuuming my 1 bedroom apartment or flexing my abs while taking a big dump.
People were doing low intensity cardio before I was born, sure. So....? That's cool... I also can't wait to be 34 so I can condescend to people at my current age like I'm God. Dude, my older brother is your age. You're not going to keel over anytime soon, so don't bother buying into those life insurance policy infomercials quite yet.
I respect your desire to perform low intensity cardio, but respect my opinion and standpoint that I think exercise and hardwork go hand/hand.
When you're getting up to 165bpm, that is probably a pretty moderate intensity, terminology aside though, I have found that both are great and I am utilising both. However, HIIT sessions are pretty taxing on the CNS, and I have found to hampen my recovery, especially when combined with a 4-5 lifting sessions. A 30-45min at a moderately intensity works well too.To me, 'low intensity' cardio is between 135 and 165 beats per minute. It's a useful tool to have, and I use it whenever I'm busy getting banged up in rugby, which is more often than not these days. If you're not in any sort of sport you have no reason to not be doing a few HIT sessions of cardio a week, though. It's even useful on a bulk. Nothing will get your appetite revved up like some wind sprints
I agree totally about the recovery side of it, my leg training was really sucking when i was doing all he HIIT sessions. I normally doing 45 minutes cardio post-workout at 150 BPM while sipping on BCAA's. I find the lower intensity cardio to be better, for me anyways.When you're getting up to 165bpm, that is probably a pretty moderate intensity, terminology aside though, I have found that both are great and I am utilising both. However, HIIT sessions are pretty taxing on the CNS, and I have found to hampen my recovery, especially when combined with a 4-5 lifting sessions. A 30-45min at a moderately intensity works well too.
Yes I can see that. Unless your on some gear recovery would be a ***** on muliple sessions of HIIT along with 4-5 days of heavy lifting.I agree totally about the recovery side of it, my leg training was really sucking when i was doing all he HIIT sessions. I normally doing 45 minutes cardio post-workout at 150 BPM while sipping on BCAA's. I find the lower intensity cardio to be better, for me anyways.
For sure bro... you do bring up some good points though. When I think about it, I do sometimes enjoy some low intensity cardio and I relate this to my swimming at times. I think that swimming free-style for about a half hour to 45 minutes is an awesome full body workout and if done at a distance pace, will be considered low-mid intensity. Swimmers are pretty ripped for the most part You didn't seem short at all T-Bone, maybe I was too quick to advocate my methods?I think exercise and hard work go hand in hand also. Maybe we just think of low-intensity diferently. I use a cardio machine at home and I do push myself as hard as I can. I don't read or talk on a cell phone. The cell phone would get all wet from the sweat and I couldn't hold the magazine because I am using my arms. I do watch tv though. Yes at the gym I do see people working out like you are talking about, just like its a vacation for them. I was thinking you were talking about Hi Intensity Interval Training. Sorry maybe I seem a little short. I respect everyones opinion. Once in a while I just make a not so well thought out post.
I'm of the opinion that if you can read a book, or carry on a conversation during cardio, you're DEFINITELY not working hard enough.You see guys, We can all be friends.:lol:
Well there is a reason H.I.I.T. is popular, and please go ahead and find ANY article that proves low intensity - low sustained cardio is better. I'll give you a couple days to find them. Your gonna need them.For sure bro... you do bring up some good points though. When I think about it, I do sometimes enjoy some low intensity cardio and I relate this to my swimming at times. I think that swimming free-style for about a half hour to 45 minutes is an awesome full body workout and if done at a distance pace, will be considered low-mid intensity. Swimmers are pretty ripped for the most part You didn't seem short at all T-Bone, maybe I was too quick to advocate my methods?
Yup.... I've lost a good 2 inches off my pants pounding 60 minutes of HIIT cardio three times a week, and still eating a truck load of calories. Of course I'm lifting 3 times a week too, but I'm not going for sheer mass at this point.Well there is a reason H.I.I.T. is popular, and please go ahead and find ANY article that proves low intensity - low sustained cardio is better. I'll give you a couple days to find them. Your gonna need them.
HIIT is superior due to it putting your body in a long term defeceit. You can't hide behind the mannerism of "it's works for me" because that doesn't mean what your doing is right, it just means it's working.
People get so caught up in the "it works for me" bs. and that's what it is. Any gym rat can see results for a short amount of time. But is it the right way? Probably not. Your online giving advice to other people without knowing any facts or research. Just "what works for me."
Next I'll hear you telling this guy you should do cardio for 45 min. straight on an empty stomach!?!?
Not ever one is on PH or anabolic steroids or AI or anything else that's gonna f' up your body's chemistry. So you have to take into consideration that what you do - just because it works - maybe not the right choice for others.
Force is Right - HIIT training is superior for fat loss. obviously your not doing cardio to gain mass - so saying you can't work legs as intensely while doing it is like saying "I don't weigh as much when I do cardio" - NO SHlT. My ass doesn't stink after I take a shower either.
Why worry about how much calories you kill during 1 hr of cardio when you could spend 15-25 and you'll burn more calories for the other 24 hrs of the day - without doing anything?
For me, and anyone else informed - the answer, the science, and the studies - are clear.
Not everyone is built the same friend I did quite a bit of track in my time. And no it doesn't indicate muscle breakdown but it does indicate anaerobic exercise. But you can get some serious muscle density that way as well. I don't ever let my HR drop below 155, and I peak around 185. I am busting my ass sir. I used to be a sprinter, so I know what busting tail is about. We used to run hills for 2 hours a day until it was an effort just to sit up straight. I had the biggest darn legs I've ever had from doing that. And I wasn't doing any weight training at the time.well muscle soreness only indicates the presence of lactic acid - not muscle breakdown.
and I'm in no way advocating HIIT as a replacement for a leg workout. I also hope that 60 min. is two different sessions. If you can go a whole hour of HIIT then your not pushing yourself hard enough - I don't care how sweaty you get. That's not the point of HIIT either.
Well I don't do 2 hr hill sprints anymore either. The other thing to realize is that not all 60 minutes is pure high intensity either. I always do a 5 minute warm up, and a ten minute cool down, so technically that's 45 minutes (which is purported to be the magic number).Well I agree people are built differently, but biochemetry isn't. I'm glad you mentioned it. Because it's what makes writes the rules, and I'm just bringing the correct one's to the line.
Like I said before - every one is so defensive about the siggestion that what THEY might be doing is wrong. And I'm not saying what I do is right either - in fact I've never stated what it is I personally do. I'm just stating what studies have shown to be correct.
If your gonna hide behind the "it works for me" tag line - then you should realize like I said before that it doesn't make you right. Or what your doing to be adventageous. If the wrong way of a certain technique works for you - imagine what you could do with the proper proven way.
If HIIT was meant to be done for an hr. I'm sure that's the way it would have been suggested. Long sustained cardio at high intensity - which is what your doing - burns muscle at an incredible rate. Which is why sprinters DON'T EVER do 2 hr hill sprints. X- country runners do.
I was a Div. 1 pole vaulter I know about sprint and sports training, this isn't my opinion. I'm also an NSCA certified C-PT and is an org. called National Strength and Conditioning Association has it wrong - please let me know so I can inform the pres. that his methods are flawed and we should train sprinter like long distance runners immediatly
That's funny, because I've never burned 8 lbs of anything in my life other than maybe charcoal And no, I switch up routines doing spinning and ellipticals every other training session.not matter what your body is only going to burn SO much fat. The rest is muscle and caused by just plain impatience and you end up hindering your ability to burn fat (by less muscle mass) and crippling your metabolism (because it adapts to the SAME cardio reutine you put it through - every day) and not giving it refeeds.
Unless your obese your not gonna wake up and lose 10bs of fat from yesterday's cardio. If you have and your not obese - you've just taken away 8lbs of muscle that could be burning fat for you while you sit at your desk replying to this message.
Heh, of course, there's gotta be something backing what they say.I really am digging all of these posts... I really can't stand people I meet who hide behind the "It works for me, man" slogan. Just because he/she gets some results and looks absolutely absurd in the gym, gives him/her the ticket to keep improperly executing the workouts. lol
Well it's good your not going for muscle.... atrophy is what you call it!?!? Hypertrophy is usually what body builders are interested in. And you don't get their from doing cardio much less 60 min. intense sessions.Heh, of course, there's gotta be something backing what they say.
Honestly though, I think the point I'm trying to make is I'm not necessarily training for maximum muscle atrophy. I'm not a natural body builder, and don't care to be. But I wouldn't be training that way if I wanted to run a marathon either.
There IS method to my madness, and the second I stop adding lean muscle, I'll change what I'm doing. I'll probably up the carbs and protein intake and decrease the cardio. But until that happens, I'm still making progress. Besides, I don't get crap for endorphines until I hit the 30 minute mark. I've always been that way. Thirty minutes is just getting to the good stuff
Well I'm glad you feel so passionately about it. Sorry, typo, hypertrophy. I do agree that form is paramount. Throwing weight around with improper form is always a quick way to get hurt. If you can't handle it properly, don't lift it at all, drop the weight.Well it's good your not going for muscle.... atrophy is what you call it!?!? Hypertrophy is usually what body builders are interested in. And you don't get their from doing cardio much less 60 min. intense sessions.
Like I said before these aren't "theories" as you state. The difference is that our statements are based on science. Your reference comes from an opinion not scientific data. I can find 12,000 people with your same opinion. It just means I found 12,001 people that could really benefit from swallowing their pride and trying to do things the right way.
Unfortunatly your also going to waste my time and make me explain what an ANALOGY is. I used to 8 lbs of muscle loss as an exaggerated analogy to get my point across. Obviously I wasn't being literal, but your response was literally - a waste of time.
The fact that you see results proves NOTHING other than you're seeing results DESPITE what your doing. I can argue that the kid deadlifting 600 lbs with hunched shoulders and stiff legs has improper form - - but he can deadlift more than me. Does that mean that his form is correct?
God no. It means he will eventually hurt himself rather badly or hit a plateu and not be able to progress any farther. Actually this is a true example of a kid at my gym who wouldn't take ANY direction. Just blindly lifted as much as her possibly could without any regards to form. He now is on his 2nd month off from lifting due to a psyatic tear and may have to have surgery to fix it.
I hope my analogy didn't confuse you too much here. What I am suggesting is is that you have no clue what your doing. Your just doing it because you found an article by someone that said it was ok, and you advocating that any one else should follow in your example is asinine.
While you enjoy gains now - they will slow and or dimish altogether quickly. If you didn't have so much weight to lose you probably wouldn't see any at all and once you do get down to normal levels you'll either be left with a sub - par physique or hanging loose skin and a brused ego.
Ummm... no.Well I agree people are built differently, but biochemetry isn't.
If you lost 8 lbs overnight after cardio it's not muscle or fat... It's water. Obese or otherwise.Unless your obese your not gonna wake up and lose 10bs of fat from yesterday's cardio. If you have and your not obese - you've just taken away 8lbs of muscle that could be burning fat for you while you sit at your desk replying to this message.
once again, someone focusing on an analogy rather anything that matters. You argue like my girlfriend. - lamely.If you lost 8 lbs overnight after cardio it's not muscle or fat... It's water. Obese or otherwise.
If "it works for me" I will keep doing it because it is right for me.If your gonna hide behind the "it works for me" tag line - then you should realize like I said before that it doesn't make you right. Or what your doing to be adventageous. If the wrong way of a certain technique works for you - imagine what you could do with the proper proven way.
Wow, he can copy and paste too! Look at those l33t computing skills! Get back to me when you've checked out all those journals at the library and actually read them.CORTISOL
The first is cortisol. Cortisol is a hormone secreted in response to stress (in our case exercise). Cortisol's main objective is to liberate energy from tissues for use during these periods of stress . It doesn't have a preference on what tissue it gets it from, but it does seem to favor muscle tissue rather heavily . The amount of cortisol released is directly related to the intensity or degree of the stress. It seems that after about 20 minutes of high intensity work, cortisol levels shoot through the roof. With that said, for high intensity (85-90% VO2 max) cardio to have the most benefit in its muscle building/fat burning properties, sessions should be kept under 20 min.
here is a little snippet.
Here are the references:References
(1) Saladin, SK, Anatomy & physiology: the unity of form and function 2nd ed. (2001) p671.
(2) Hedge, G. A., H. D. Colby, and R. L. Goodman. Clinical Endocrine Physiology. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 1987 [MEDLINE].
(3) Jacks, E.D., Sowash, J., Anning, J., McGloughlin, T., Andres, F. Effect of exercise at three exercise intensities on salivary cortisol. J. Str. Cond. Res. 2002; 16(2) pp 286-289.
(4) Blake B. Rasmussen, Kevin D. Tipton, Sharon L. Miller, Steven E. Wolf, and Robert R. Wolfe. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise J. Appl. Physiol. 88, (2), 386-392, 2000
(5) Luc JC van Loon, Wim HM Saris, Margriet Kruijshoop and Anton JM Wagenmakers. Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures Am. J. Clin. Nutri. 72, (1), 106-111, 2000.
(6) McConnel,G.,K., et. al. Effect of carbohydrate ingestion on glucose kinetics and muscle metabolism during intense exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 2000 ;89(5). Pp1690-1698
(7) Brett A. Dolezal and Jeffrey A. Potteiger Concurrent resistance and endurance training influence basal metabolic rate in nondieting individuals J. Appl. Physiol. 85 (2) 1998; pp 695-700.
(8) William J. Kraemer, Jeff S. Volek, Jill A. Bush, Margot Putukian, and Wayne J. Sebastianelli Hormonal responses to consecutive days of heavy-resistance exercise with or without nutritional supplementation J. App. Physiol. 85(4) pp 1544-1599.
(9) Ann. Nutr. Metab. 44(1) 2000; pp 21-29. Creatine supplementation affects muscle creatine during energy restriction. Med. Sci. in Sport Exerc. 33(1) 2001; pp 61-68.
(10) J. L. Bowtell, K. Gelly, M. L. Jackman, A. Patel, M. Simeoni, and M. J. Rennie. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. J Appl Physiol (1999) 86: 1770-1777
(11) +Leipier, B.J., Brood, R.N., Maughan, J.R. Effect of intermittent high intensity exercise on gastric emptying in man. Med. Sci. in Sport and Exerc. 33(8). pp 1270-1278
(12) Van Nieuswhover, M.A., et. al. Effect of dehydration on gastric function at rest and during exercise. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 2000 Dec; 83(6), 578-584.
(13) S. Mahe et al. Gastrojejunal kinetics and digestion of [15N] B-Lactoglobulin and casein in humans: the influence of the nature and quality of the protein. Am. J. Clin. Nutri. 63 p 542-546 1996
(14) P.P. Keohane et al. influence of protein composition and hydrolysis method on intestinal absorption of protein in man. Gut 26 p907 -913. 1985.
(15)Snyder, C.A. (1998). Exercise, nutrition and health Carmel, IN: Cooper Publishing Group.
(16) Emon, P. W. R., M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall, and S. A. Atkinson. Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders. J. Appl. Physiol. 73: 767-775, 1992
(17) Inffluence of exercise training on physiological and phycological change with weight loss in men Med. Sci. in Sport and Exerc. 31(9) 1320-1329; 1997.
(18)Robert R Wolfe. Protein supplements and exercise. Am. J. Clin Nutri, 72(2), 551S-557s, August 2000
(19) Fern EB, Bielinski RN and Shultz Y. Effects of exaggerated amino acid and protein supply in man. Experimnetia. 1991; 47 168-172.
(20) Anges, superdrol. M. et al. Dietary composition and physiological adaptation to energy restriction. Am. J. Clin. Nutri. 2000: 71(4) p901-907.
(21) J,T. Tittelbach, et.al. Post-exercise substrate utilization after a high glucose vs. high fructose meals during negative energy balance in the obese. Obes Res 2000; 8: p496-505.
(22) Yohiako, M. et. al. Impact of high intensity exercise on energy expenditure, lipid oxidation and body fatness. Int. J. Obes. Relat. Metab. Disord. 2001 Mar: 25(50 p332-339.
(23) Ma J, Giovannucci E, Pollak M, Chan JM, Gaziano JM, Willett W, Stampfer MJ. Milk intake, circulating levels of insulin-like growth factor-I, and risk of colorectal cancer in men. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2001 Sep 93(17): p1330-6.
(24) Reed, M. J., R. W. Cheng, M. Simmonds, W. Richmond, and V. H. T. James. Dietary lipids: an additional regulator of plasma levels of sex hormone binding globulin. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 64: 1083-1085, 1987.
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WOW look at how many people and studies YOU personally prove wrong on a daily basis!! You should email them all and tell them your method is superior!!! I'm sure they'd be as impressed as I was.
I'm not even going to try to quote you, because you're already taking up too much space in this thread. You sound like a middle-child, whining for attention.
Pray to the holy HIIT gym gods and they will make it all better?I got the loose skin! :head: Now what?! :think:
Oh your totally right here. no argument. I was/am being abrasive because like I said - i like to argue. The fact that I copy and pasted something doesn't make it less legitimate. I also posted the actual links for you as well.I'm not even going to try to quote you, because you're already taking up too much space in this thread. You sound like a middle-child, whining for attention.
I'm sure you have some good knowledge to share, but your abrasive style is going to turn off would-be listeners (OK, readers). Leave out the insulting analogies, limit the sarcasm, and maybe you'll pick up some converts.
OK, back to ENDOMORPH Cutting
Well I appreciate the apologyOh your totally right here. no argument. I was/am being abrasive because like I said - i like to argue. The fact that I copy and pasted something doesn't make it less legitimate. I also posted the actual links for you as well.
Yeah I presented it in a very ass-like fashion. Again - to argue, but AGAIN - just because your seeing results from something doesn't mean it's ideal.
Here - he is burning fat as well as muscle - now stated before more muscle you have the higher your caloric requirements for the day. If he continues to burn muscle and wait for that plateau... how much muscle is he gonna burn in the mean time that could have been saved by doing it correctly to begin with. So the "it works for me" can actually be very hindering to reaching goals on the long term scale. Not everything is INSTANT gratification you know. And Weight lifting is catabolic in term of working out for more than 55 min. or on an empty stomach. it ALSO opens up an anabolic window. So if your going into a catabolic state while you weight train - then yes you wouldn't see much gains. But this is why most people eat and/or have a protein shake or BCAA before/during a workout. Also I very much doubt that most people weight train - especially for muscle size - as insensly as they do high intensity cardio - like the article said 85-90% of your VO2 max. If you weight train like that - I'd love to see video.
If I insulted your athleticism I apologize, actually I apologize about the demeanor but - you have to admit it was a good argument.
I would actually in all seriousness and sincerity suggest checking those articles out. They're good ones.
The extra skin comment was about burning up your muscle to lose fat - meaning you'll be leaving all this room that some of your skin can't snap back to stretch over depending on how long you decide it's ok to eat up all this muscle and how much LBM you lose because of it.
The 8 pound thing was a gross exaggeration that I used to prove a point in a rude way. I never said Satir claimed to have lost that much. Or that is was all fat or water or muscle or whatever.
Most good debates are heated ones, and this was a good one. I'm happy with it.
I agree with you that HIIT and linear high-intensity are more effective than low intensity, but many of your arguments in support of this are nonsensical or irrelevant.
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