Female ballet dancer asks some questions + 4 a little help! :)
- 05-22-2007, 03:25 PM
Female ballet dancer asks some questions + 4 a little help! :)
Hi everyone! I am female ballet dancer and working towards my degree in Exercise Science. I have become extremely fascinated with the wealth of information that bodybuilders and all the bodybuilding sites contain! I am currently reading the BodyOpus book and am going to implement a lot of the ideas in it.
I am posting because I am on a break for the next couple months from dance because it is the summer and I am back home from college (and by break I mean I will still be dancing 2-3 times a week for 1+ hrs). I really have never lifted weight before at all and since dance is mainly anaerobic, cross training-wise I would also do aerobics (which left my body still looking not very strong and mostly “soft”). So my goal on my break over the next months is to recompose my body, increasing my lean muscle mass and decreasing my bodyfat while NOT gaining weight. I would ideally like to lose about 2-3lbs. I want to do this not just for the aesthetic purposes in the ballet world, but to increase my endurance/health in dance. About a month ago, I was 17-17.2% body fat (and this is measuring with a caliper myself, a cheap one – I really need to buy a medical quality one – any1 have an opinon on the Omron Body Fat Analyzer? Would def. be easier 4 me!) and at one point was able to get my bodyfat down to almost 16% but it is now back up to around 16.5% because I think I have increased my aerobics too much.
For the past month and a half I have been trying to lose 2-3 lbs. and my goal is to get my bodyfat down to 14-15%. The last month and half, I have learned more about nutrition and fat loss techniques then I ever knew before but I am having the WORST time in the world losing 2-3 lbs. I mean, it shouldn’t take 2 months to lose 2 lbs – I just can’t lose any weight :/ I had metabolic testing done and it determined that my RMR was 1075 and my BMR was 1375 – for weight loss of 1 lb a week the printout said I should eat 1000-1100 calories a day. Also of concern to me, my metabolism apparently is 17% slower then the average typical person of my age, height, weight, etc…I dunno how accurate this is but it is troubling to me! It is also hard to tell if I have actually lost weight or not because my weight fluctuates soo much during the day – I have decreased my sodium a lot and this has helped.
While I have decreased my bodyfat slightly (about half a percent) and lost some inches off my body – I haven’t been getting the results I want. If people could please offer their suggestions/opinons on what I am doing wrong and what I need to do, that would be great!! I am also going to post in the forum about supplements/pills because I need to start a regimen of BCAAs/whey, fat burners etc (w/o stimulants though – I can’t handle caffeine at all!! – don’t want to make this post extremely long so I’ll post that info separately but I have started taking CLA, vaporize and green tea)
Below I have included my stats, current and previous (from about a month ago), the eating and training schedule….
Starting Stats (about a month-month and a half ago):
Starting weight: 107 lbs
Hips: 31.5 in, Waist: 26.5 in, Thighs: 19.5 in, Arms: 9.5 in, Around Butt: 34.2 in, Chest: 32.5 in
My current stats are:
Height- 5’ 4”
Hips: 30.5 in, Waist: 24.8 in, Thighs: 19.5 in, Arms: 9 in, Around Butt: 33.9 in, Chest: 32.5 in
The past few weeks of eating/ diet: Low carb, high prot, moderate fat. Cal: about 1000-1200, alternating days, depending on my activity with about 40-45% prot, 35-40% fat and 20-25% carbs (usually about 50-60g carb + approx. 20-25g fiber) with tons of water, all good unsaturated fats, low GI carbs and high quality proteins. I have found that I am extremely carb/sugar-sensitive and they are bid trigger foods for me. I feel great on a higher fat and prot diet but then about every 4 days I go on a “carb binge” where I eat about double of triple the amount of carbs I usually do but my calories are still only about 1500-1600 max on these days with TONS of exercise to make up for it. I guess this is probally one of the reasons I am not getting the results I want …? I also try to time my carbs for POST workout. [I am very accurate w/ my food logs as well and measure everything on a scale, etc. I also have ketosticks but have never quite been able to get fully into ketosis, I just can’t bring myself to cut my carbs and increase my fat enough probally to get into ketosis more than trace amounts]
The past few weeks of working out/exercise: I recently have been doing way too much cardio so I think my muscle has diminished some because of that. I have a Polar Heart Rate monitor to accurately calculate my calories burned and I cycle 3 weeks with progressively harder training w/ one week of rest/ much lower intensity exercise. This past month I burned 1750 cal in week 1, 1850 cal in week 2, and this week I am aiming for burning 1900-2000cal. I alternate weights and cardio on different days, try to to HITT training mostly, sometimes cardio AFTER weights. The most I’ve trained is about 2-3 hours (in pieces) in one day – like I have a 2 hr dance class and then I do weights later. Usually I exercise about 1 hour a day though. One day during the week I rest.
An example of my training schedule is as follows:
Exercise: Ballet, 1 hr 30 min = 250 cal burned ….
Cal in: I ate 1100 cal
Exercise: Plyometrics/Taebo, 35 min = 200 cal burned + Arms/abs str training, 40 min = 150 cal burned …
Cal in: I ate 1400 cal (“carb binge”)
Exercise: Cardio AM, 20 min = 100 cal + Cardio PM, 25 min = 100 cal …
Cal in: I ate 1100 cal
Exercise: Ballet, 75 min = 250 cal + Arms/abs str. Training, 35 min = 150 cal …
Cal in: I ate 1350 cal (more than I was planning on + slightly higher carbs, about 30% of my cal)
Exercise: Kenpo/Taebo/HITT, 35 min = 200 cal + Ballet, 1 hr = 200 cal …
Cal in: I ate 1100 cal
Exercise: REST (did stretching/light walking – burned about 100cal) …
Cal in: I ate 1150 cal
Exercise: Ballet/leg/butt str training, 1 hr = 150 cal + Walking, 30 min = 100 cal, + Arms/ abs str training, 35 min = 100 cal….
Cal in: I ate 1500 cal (“Carb binge”)
Looking back over my calories, I think maybe I am eating to little because some days I would eat about 1100 cal (which always leaves me hungry!) and burn about 350 in exercise so that’s only 750 cal for my body 2 survive on … but I have a hard time adding MORE food because I don’t want to GAIN weight! Plus that stupid metabolic testing said I should eat 1000-1100 cal to lose weight and that my metabolism is depressed by 17% :/ [Oh yea and I have had my thyroid checked and my TSH level is only .45 but I am usually extremely tired – that’s another saga though] How can I NOT lose weight doing all of this exercise and eating what I am eating!
[And please, I know by NO means am I fat in any way – I just want to be able to perform at my optimal and gain some muscle, lose a bit more fat – just get more toned! P.S. I am also a perfectionist so I have trouble being satisfied if I don’t get the exact result I want, and looking over all this, I guess I have accomplished a good deal – at least I can lift 5-10 lb dumbbells in a workout, couldn’t before LOL!]
- 05-22-2007, 03:30 PM
Easiest thing to do would be to drink ~15g of BCAA before Tues/Thur/Fri workouts and to have a WPI and carb drink afterwards. I train MMA and I know that it can be difficult to keep a decent amount of muscle when training more than the average BB'er.
For fat loss, look into SesaThin; Nutraplanet has the best deals on BCAA and SesaThin because they offer both of them in bulk.M.Ed. Ex Phys
05-22-2007, 03:46 PM
okay, yes I will definately add the BCAA pre-WO but what is WPI mean? I also am not really convinced on the data about whether sesame truly helps w/ fat loss - I mean I am def. willing to try but sesathin is just sesame oil correct? And it seems like all the experiments conducted about sesame and fat loss have been done on rats (from what I've read anyway)...I am taking 3g of Tonalin CLA and 6 Mann Vaporize pills per day now (I just started taking them a few days ago) but I think once I finish the Vaporize I will just get some plain fish oil EPA/DHA caps cause thats probally better.
I heard good things about Biotest Methoxy 7 but it seems to have a TON of cholestoral in it, live 500mg per serving. I really want to take RPN DCP cause of the rave reviews but it is out of stock for a few weeks apparently. I think I should get a ALCAR/ALA combo too. I was also looking at endotrim, Glucophase XR, MM4 / Beta3 / Guggulbolic Extreme, 7 KETO DHEA, Tetrazene, and universal super cuts 3 but I dunno what I should take really/ what I really need...
Chromium is supposed to supress carb cravings so that might be good for me. Theres just so many pills/powders, its very confusing! Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
05-22-2007, 03:52 PM
SesaThin is derived from sesame seeds, but I can guarantee you that it is much better than Tonalin CLA. ALCAR and K-R-ALA would be a good non-stim combo to control blood sugar and increase focus.
The main thing is to remember that it is best to add one or two supplements at a time so you know what is actually helping you out.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
05-22-2007, 03:55 PM
With all the activity you do, be careful not to get your calories too low. I'd keep it around that 1400-1500 range you hit on a couple days. If you get too low, your fat burning will shut down. And remember to get those meals every 2.5 to 3 hours with a proper breakdown of protein, carb, and fat. Something like 40/40/20 would be a good place to start.
05-22-2007, 03:57 PM
05-22-2007, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the info! I'll finish the Tonalin CLA and get Sesathin instead then (would it be okay to get plain sesame oil or does it need to be sesathin?) I'll do the BCAAs + whey suggestions and I guess try to up my cals - just hestitant to do so... Do you think it would be best to increase calories slowly, like step up from 1000-1100 cal to 1200-1300 then to 1400-1500? An increase in calories each day might also make me feel less deprived also and I wouldn't feel like I needed "carb binge" days maybe. I do eat 5-6 small meals a day but with only 1000 a day the meals were so small that I was usually always still hungry.
The reason I was trying to go way low carb is because I read a lot about the ketogenic diets and CKD etc and how they promote fat loss but I guess unless I'm doign a true ketogenic diet w/ the massive amounts of fat and prot then no point in going so low carb. Its just that sugar/starch/wheat foods cause me to have stomach problems and major cravings but I could try uping my carbs a bit too I guess.
I'll look more into the ALCAR and K-R-ALA combo too. Yes thats true though - I don't want to add a million supplements and then not know which of them is actually working What do you think about the Man Vapoize though? Is that supplement any good? I got it because it has sesame and the fish oils in it. Would I be better off w/ the whey, BCAAs, sesathin and plain EPA/DHA fish oil instead? Or no fish oil needed?
05-22-2007, 04:32 PM
05-22-2007, 07:43 PM
okay I am going to give this a try. I'm going to do 1200 cal tomorrow, followed by a few days of 1300 cal then start doing 1400 cal. I'm going to do 45%prot, 20% carb and 35% fat and follow all the other suggestions from you guys. I just don't want to gain weight - do you think I will see a small increase in the scale for a wk or two maybe before my weight goes back down? The calories from the CLA and man vaporize supplements, should I count these into my diet? because they are 9cal, 1g fat each and w/ the amt I am taking that adds up to about 100 extra cal a day...
What do you think about the Man Vapoize though? Is that supplement any good? I got it because it has sesame and the fish oils in it. Would I be better off w/ the whey, BCAAs, sesathin and plain EPA/DHA fish oil instead? Or no fish oil needed?
05-22-2007, 08:47 PM
You could see an increase in muscle, especially if your body has been kind of starving for some calories. Just don't freak out about the scale weight. Maybe find a place that does under water weighing to find and monitor your bodyfat. Going by how your clothes fit is a simpler way too.
05-22-2007, 10:46 PM
well what I'm doing now isn't working so I might as well right? thanks for all the help! I'll def be posting more later
05-22-2007, 11:47 PM
05-22-2007, 11:57 PM
For me, BCAAs alone make a huge difference on my physique. Adding in the SesaThin and WPI will make your results that much better.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
05-23-2007, 12:13 AM
05-23-2007, 12:16 AM
05-23-2007, 08:29 PM
I get really sick when I eat sucralose/nutrasweet so would Nutraplanet's BCAAs powder work well enough? I also saw SciFit BCAA Powder 5000 on bodybuilding.com that has nothing added. I don't mind a gross/weird taste.
Also, do you think that Hammer Whey 100% Whey Isolate would be okay? Its unflavored, so I was leaning towards that since the other whey's all have artifical sweeteners in them - know of any good ion-exchange or isolate why proteins that don't have artifical flavorings?
05-23-2007, 09:20 PM
05-23-2007, 09:22 PM
05-23-2007, 09:39 PM
I have to say your post (the first one) was pretty damn intelligent. I'm impressed. We ain't be gettin' many smarties 'round herrrrre.
(Que the toothless hick emoticon...)
Wanna get married?
Ok - now on to real advice:
I would say don't cut carbs too far. The brain doesn't work well on ketones (which is what it is forced too when not enough glycogen is available).
If your daily routine requires you to think in any capacity - not a good idea to go into ketosis.
I know this from experience (as a chem. engineer - I have to think correctly every day).
Green tea works GREAT.
Highly recommend a few cups a day.
I'll try to re-read your posts and see if I have anything else.
05-23-2007, 09:43 PM
05-23-2007, 09:57 PM
I've gotten some great input from people here so thanks to all! I have just ordered Nutraplanet's bulk BCAAs powder (I'll have to do some more of my sometimes fanatical research to find ways to make it taste semi-ok) Also just ordered NOW Whey Protein Isolate, Unflavored (was debating between Jarrows formula as well) so hopefully these additions will help! I'm really pretty sensitive to caffeine though so I try to stay away from green tea - I do have these decaffienated green tea pills but not sure how much they'll really work, since all the studies indicate that the small amounts of caffeine in green tea are one of the components that makes it so healthy/good.
05-24-2007, 12:02 AM
The caff. is really a side benefit in green tea.
Stuff like ECGC is one of the main ingredients that help speed metabolism. There are some other chemicals (not coming to me right now) that help with blood sugar levels, and do a BUNCH of other healthy stuff.
You could get the decaff. green tea - they only have 5 mgs of caff or so per tea bag.
05-24-2007, 09:30 AM
kewl, I'll look into that thanks! ate a little more than normal the last two days (150-200 cal more) and noticed that my morning body temp is almost a full degree higher and I have more energy, scale number actual went down a little too...I was probally holding on to some water weight but my weight flucuates so much I'm not that concerned about it
05-24-2007, 09:32 PM
Like jmh80 said, nicely detailed first post. Grats
However, I'm going to suggest taking a step back from all the numbers. Unless you are trying to make weight for a competition I suggest focusing more on your actual appearance. Scales, body fat analysis, and counting calories are all tools that can help you reach your desired goals. The problem is that they are all only accurate only to a certain point. Looking to lose 2-3 lbs or another 1% in body fat according to the 'instruments' is tough because of their error, your daily weight fluctuation, and variance in actual calories burned. Sometimes the numbers can have you running in circles.
As for actual changes, go back to your diet. If you are having carb cravings and binges I suggest upping your carb intake and putting some in most meals, lower GI of course. Your BMR of 1375 sounds about right and with your activity level you should be easily burning another 500 cals per day. So eating your BMR per day should still be good and will make you less hungry and less likely to binge on those carbs. Make up your meal plan based on that theory and stick to it; eat the same foods and same amounts every day and see what happens. If the fat is not coming off then adjust downwards a little at a time. Due to differences in the ACTUAL calorie content of your food vs textbook, and error in measuring it out what you actually eat is likely to be different than your calculations. That measured meal plan and the mirror in some ways are more important than all teh scientific instruments. Lastly, be patient. By your stats, you are already in really good shape; to make further improvement is going to be more of a challenge.
I know lots of people here are big on their supps but I just don't think that they are cost effective. They can help but I don't feel that they are going to compensate for a glitch in your diet somewhere.
05-26-2007, 09:54 AM
06-20-2007, 05:42 PM
One more thing to note is that complex carbs are always better than simple sugar's and things like the dreaded high frutose corn syrrup. I can completely agree on the whole icky sweet stuff turning my stomach into a naught. I find it helpful to check the glycemic index on foods I eat to try and keep it low on the simple carbs. It helps my stomach dramatically.
The Glycemic Index
I'm not diabetic, but when I was a kid, McDonalds pure sugar powdered orange juice concentrate would make me nauscious to the point of throwing up, and if I didn't throw up, I'd be visiting the john a large number of times the next day.
Simple sugars and some people just don't get along at all. So I understand where you're coming from there. Sugar'd protein powders give me stomach cramps too.
As far as 'flavored' WPI's I've had great luck with Isopure. The stuff dissolves clear in water it's so pure. The vanilla is my favorite! Add it to some milk and it's my breakfast of choice. Along with some high fiber oatmeal some mornings. They have 2 versions, a 1g carb and a 0g carb. I've never used the 1g carb stuff, as the 0g carb has worked wonderfully.
Nutrition Facts (Isopure Zero Carb - Creamy Vanilla)
Serving Size 2 scoop(s)
Servings Per Container 22
Amount Per Serving % DV
Calories from Fat 0.00
Total Fat 0.00 g 0%
Saturated Fat 0.00 g
Cholesterol 5.00 mg 2%
Sodium 320.00 mg 13%
Total Carbohydrate 0.00 g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0.00 g 0%
Protein 50.00 g 100%
Phosphorus 500.00 mg 50%
Magnesium 200.00 mg 50%
Calcium 600.00 mg 60%
Iron 1.08 mg 6%
Chloride 680.00 mg 20%
Potassium 750.00 mg 21%
Vitamin A 2500.00 IU 50%
Vitamin C 30.00 mg 50%
Vitamin E 15.00 IU 50%
Vitamin K 40.00 mcg 50%
Thiamin 0.75 mg 50%
Riboflavin 0.85 mg 50%
Niacin 10.00 mg 50%
Vitamin B-6 1.00 mg 50%
Folate 200.00 mcg 50%
Vitamin B-12 3.00 mcg 50%
Biotin 150.00 mcg 50%
Pantothenic Acid 5.00 mg 50%
Iodine 75.00 mcg 50%
Zinc 7.50 mg 50%
Selenium 35.00 mcg 50%
Copper 1.00 mg 50%
Manganese 1.00 mg 50%
Chromium 60.00 mcg 50%
Molybdenum 37.50 mcg 50%
** Daily Value (DV) not established
† Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.
Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on
your calorie needs:
Calories: 2000 2500
Total Fat Less than 65 g 80 g
Sat. Fat Less than 20 g 25 g
Cholesterol Less than 300 mg 300 mg
Sodium Less than 2400 mg 2400 mg
Total Carbohydrate 300 g 375 g
Dietary Fiber 25 g 30 g
Calories per gram:
Fat 9• Carbohydrate 4•Protein 4
* 3465mg of isoleucine
* 7865mg of leucine
* 3080mg of valine
* 4.6g of L-Glutamine
Other Ingredients: Ion-Exchange Whey Protein Isolate, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Xanthan Gum, Silicon Dioxide, Sucralose, Vitamin, Mineral and Amino Acid Blend (Dicalcium phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, dl-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Chromium Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Chloride, Zinc (as Zinc Sulfate), Molybdenum (Amino Acid Chelate), Biotin, Niacin, Copper (Amino Acid Chelate), Potassium Iodide, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Silicon Dioxide, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin K-1, Manganese Sulfate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine HCl, L-Glutamine, Taurine, Thiamin HCl, Riboflavin, Vitamin B-12)
Aspartame Free, Fat Free, Lactose Free
Warning: Use this product as a food supplement only. Do not use for weight reduction.
Diabetics: Use chromium only under a physician's supervision.
The Supervision of:
NATURE'S BEST® INC.
Hauppauge, New York 11788
06-20-2007, 09:07 PM
06-20-2007, 11:12 PM
My recommendation is to go with the cheapest whey your digestive tract can tolerate.
I'm currently using the EAS whey that Sam's sells and the Optimum Nutrition whey.
Blends are usually best.
06-21-2007, 09:29 AM
That said, my GF wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, she had to use the stuff that didn't taste like dirt out of the bucket.
07-03-2007, 09:13 PM
Technically, the only way you're going to get your metabolism back 'up' is to get out of the negative calorie range for a day or two then drop back.
You'll notice that a lot of people here cycle with 're-feeds' carbing up for a day or two then dropping back down again, but keeping the protein high regardless. It helps to keep your metabolism from continuously down-revving trying to preserve body fat. If you stay calorie negative your body thinks you're trying to starve it, and it does everything in it's power to retain body fat. You can thank a few thousand years of biological evolution for that. All the non-fat retaining people must've mostly died out in famines, leaving us with some pretty hearty fat retaining bodies. So the 'trick' is to keep your body from thinking it's continually starving, if that makes sense. Staying eternally calorie neg just teaches your body how to stay starving all the time (ie retain fat).
What I've found most effective for me is 1-2 days up, 3-4 days down. And eating 6 times a day helps me not be ravenously hungry all the time. Working out 6 days a week now, if I miss a meal I feel like I could eat a whole cow and a half I get so hungry!
The other thing some professional body builders do is what's called tapering. They carb up in the mornings and taper off the carbs with every meal, until their bed time meal is almost all protein and fat.
Just my 2 cents.
I hope things are going well for you! Keep up the hard work!
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