What do people think of this cutting stack/routine?

[Gutterpump]

The purpose is to lose fat in as short a time as possible, without being catabolic and with as little side effects as possible. Been bulking for 4 months and now I'm looking to lose 10-15pnds. Only real fat on me is around my mid section right now and it's not that bad.

ALbuterol (24mg/day)
Leviathan
DCP
CL Red Acid Gen2
CL Sesaglow
Diesel Test 2010

Morning cardio (hiit), evening workout + short hiit afterwards, 6 days a week.

Cal's are ~2000 or possibly ~2500 so (down from 3500-4000). Much lowered fat, high protein + high/medium carb.

Btw, I am 6'2 ~230pnds atm

 

[ThisGuy02]

Well, I'm taking Albuterol right now, and I honestly wouldn't recommend going with 24mg, at least not without ramping up to it. Personally, 12mg a day is fine for me, i went 16 the other day and woke up in the middle of the night with a really fast heartbeat and some anxiety, so that was my last experiment.

Now, taking it with other stimulants like Red Acid is something that I definitely wouldn't recommend. Also, I don't know if you should cut a whole 1500-2000 cals in one shot. Most people say cut in increments of 500, but given your weight, if you want to go nuts, I'd say cut 750, but not 1500.

And a warning, Albuterol is going to open up your appetite in ways you cannot even imagine.

Out of curiosity, any reason you're not pairing T3 or T4 with the Alb?

 

[Gutterpump]

I just decided to get some T3 today. Going to be on the order for monday.

My first day taking the albuterol, I misread the dosing and thought I was taking 4mg X 3, but in fact I was taking 8mg X 3. I had some manageable body shakes (slightly in the hands, but I could feel them all over) and some anxiety but it was nothing I couldn't really handle, even while at the office. I decided now to go with 6mg X 3 a day and that feels great right now. 4mg X 3 gave me completely 0 sides, and 6mg seems to be my sweet spot right now...boosted energy (4mg didnt' give me much of a stimulating effect), very mild shakes, and definately very manageable so I think I'm going to stick with 18mg daily.

I'm 230 pnds, but I've just finished a 4 month bulk after a cut last winter so I'm not really overweight per say, but I definately am looking for that extra push to get rid of my tummy fat and reveal my six pack. I think only a 4 week cycle of Alb + T3 plus Retain while I am double training (hiit cardio in am, hiit + heavy lifting in pm) will get me that six in no time. I've cut my cals a lot but I'm keeping the protein very high and also upping my intake of casein. Might incorporate some BCAA's into the mix soon too.

Btw, the Red Acid 2nd gen has no caffeine, it's the non-stimulant blend.
I might stack yohimbe near the end of this 4 week cycle though.

 

[Rodja]

Are you doing your morning HIIT on an empty stomach?

 

[Gutterpump]

Are you doing your morning HIIT on an empty stomach?

Sometimes. Most of the time I have a protein shake before hand though, right when I wake up, and then it's about a 45 min commute to work for me (my gym is across the street from my office). I'm also taking creatine (GreenMAG) after workout 1, and then Torrent after my evening workout. Each drink has roughly 50grams of carbs but that's not bad post-workout. I don't think I'm going to stop taking creatine during this cut, want to keep my strength and motivation up. I guess I should mention I also take Animal Pak with my pre-workout meal...but if I only have one workout, then I take a pak with my evening casein.

 

[Rodja]

Sometimes. Most of the time I have a protein shake before hand though, right when I wake up, and then it's about a 45 min commute to work for me (my gym is across the street from my office). I'm also taking creatine (GreenMAG) after workout 1, and then Torrent after my evening workout. Each drink has roughly 50grams of carbs but that's not bad post-workout. I don't think I'm going to stop taking creatine during this cut, want to keep my strength and motivation up.

You definitely want to have something in your stomach before performing HIIT or you will just be burning off muscle. I usually take 15g of BCAAs with some ALCAR for endurance and anti-catabolism.

 

[Gutterpump]

thanks, yeah that's what I've been reading so that's the next item on the list for me.

Any real benefit to getting BCAA EE?
or should I just go with bulk BCAA and maybe some bulk EAA?

 

[Rodja]

thanks, yeah that's what I've been reading so that's the next item on the list for me.

Any real benefit to getting BCAA EE?
or should I just go with bulk BCAA and maybe some bulk EAA?

Stick with bulk BCAAs, Xtend, or Excell.

 

[Gutterpump]

And a warning, Albuterol is going to open up your appetite in ways you cannot even imagine.

just had to comment on this. my first day taking it...all I could think of was eating lol... but I just kept filling myself with water

 

[ThisGuy02]

just had to comment on this. my first day taking it...all I could think of was eating lol... but I just kept filling myself with water

i know! just wait until you're taking the T3. I've been taking my alb w/ T4 and Hemadrol, which had some serious effects on my appetite, and as of yesterday (beginning week 3), I added Mega Zol and Mega TRN to my cut...needless to say my hunger the last 24 hours has been insatiable. the morning workout's not so bad, but when i get home from the gym at night i can literally eat like 3 plates of food.

it's taking A LOT of willpower to eat below maintenance cals.

 

[Gutterpump]

question..would it be recommended or sufficient to take something like retain or a similar cortisol blocker while on t3 (while simultaneously increasing amount and frequency of protein intake and increase my casein), or should I just pulse some havoc while on it since I'm tired of waiting for 3-ad? (would be my first ph/ps experience). p.c.t could consist of nolv + diesel test (have these both on hand).

I'd rather find a good cortisol blocker if it will be effective enough for a 4 week cycle of t3.

 

[ThisGuy02]

question..would it be recommended or sufficient to take something like retain or a similar cortisol blocker while on t3 (while simultaneously increasing amount and frequency of protein intake and increase my casein), or should I just pulse some havoc while on it since I'm tired of waiting for 3-ad? (would be my first ph/ps experience). p.c.t could consist of nolv + diesel test (have these both on hand).

I'd rather find a good cortisol blocker if it will be effective enough for a 4 week cycle of t3.

Well, I wouldn't recomend pulsing havoc, or any other ph for that matter, despite the rising popularity of this technique. Especially if it's your first experience. If you're going to go on cycle, do it the tried and true way. I've read risks involved w/ pulsing.

now, as for a cort blocker, if the purpose is to preserve muscle while on T3, that won't do it. The very best way is to go the ph route, though havoc isn't ideal for cutting either. For cutting and preserving, a high dose of any Zol clone (around 200mg) would be good, or a basic halo clone (Mega H, Hemadrol, etc.) would also be good.

I've been running Hemadrol for 2 weeks, while stacking albuterol and t4 and I've actually gained 6lb. while tightening up, with maintenance cals, low carbs and no real increase in protein.

As for pct, Nolvadex and deisel test would be good. Add in some Trione by Nutraplanet, just to be safe. It's really cheap.

How're you dosing the t3? I assume you're ramping 25mg - 75mg?

 

[Gutterpump]

Thanks for the info.

I haven't started the T3 but I will be ramping from 25mcg to 75mcg. I guess I could go to 100 but it's my first time so I'll stick to 75mcg as max.

something like:
25/25/25/25/50/50/50/50/75/75/75/75/75/75/75/50/50/50/50/50/25/25/25/25/15/15/15/15

Would probably be safest for my first time I think.

For pct if I decide to go that route, I'll probably add in some paravol and a cpl other goodies as well. Loss of libido is not an option lol

 

[ThisGuy02]

Thanks for the info.

I haven't started the T3 but I will be ramping from 25mcg to 75mcg. I guess I could go to 100 but it's my first time so I'll stick to 75mcg as max.

something like:
25/25/25/25/50/50/50/50/75/75/75/75/75/75/75/50/50/50/50/50/25/25/25/25/15/15/15/15

Would probably be safest for my first time I think.

For post cycle therapy if I decide to go that route, I'll probably add in some paravol and a cpl other goodies as well. Loss of libido is not an option lol

Yeah, i hear you!

As for the T3, that's about right. 100 gets a little too catabolic.

 

[msucurt]

Yeah, i hear you!

As for the T3, that's about right. 100 gets a little too catabolic.

I have a bottle of T3 and 3/4 bottle of CLEN. i was thinking of using in the following stack....trying to add muscle and lose some fat...

XFACTOR / BURN3D / PFULL / YELLOW GOLD..

should i just stick with the clen or take it out and add the T3 in the mix?

Could use some good advise and suggestions here..

thanks:clap2:

 

[Gutterpump]

I've heard good things about yellow gold, but I have no experience with Clen. I'm going to be doing the Albuterol / T3 together though.

So...now I've almost completely rethought my cut for this summer.

I'd love to do the following stack now:

Albuterol + T3
Mega-H
Mega-Zol
GreenMAG/Torrent
AP (undecided though)

Right now I'm at maintenance and only on Albuterol + Red Acid 2 + SesaGlow + GreenMAG + Torrent and I'm still getting nice gains while leaning out and getting some nice definition. This new stack above..added with eating just above maintenance but very clean, should produce some nice results I'm thinking

 

[ThisGuy02]

I've heard good things about yellow gold, but I have no experience with Clen. I'm going to be doing the Albuterol / T3 together though.

So...now I've almost completely rethought my cut for this summer.

I'd love to do the following stack now:

Albuterol + T3
Mega-H
Mega-Zol
GreenMAG/Torrent
AP (undecided though)

Right now I'm at maintenance and only on Albuterol + Red Acid 2 + SesaGlow + GreenMAG + Torrent and I'm still getting nice gains while leaning out and getting some nice definition. This new stack above..added with eating just above maintenance but very clean, should produce some nice results I'm thinking

Killer stack, dude. Should have you lean and mean. I love Zol and H together. And I've never used T3 myself, but being even stronger than T4, I figure it must really whittle down the fat.

 

[ThisGuy02]

I have a bottle of T3 and 3/4 bottle of CLEN. i was thinking of using in the following stack....trying to add muscle and lose some fat...

XFACTOR / BURN3D / PFULL / YELLOW GOLD..

should i just stick with the clen or take it out and add the T3 in the mix?

Could use some good advise and suggestions here..

thanks:clap2:

i would recommend using the clen & the T3 together, but you'll need to get on some kind of ph to keep from losing muscle.

 

[Gutterpump]

Killer stack, dude. Should have you lean and mean.

Haha yes, well I'm already a fairly lean 230pnds and somewhat mean but not mean enough lol. I've already started seeing striations in my shoulders lately and my chest is a lot more defined now...getting more vascular through my upper torso finally too. But the reason for the albuterol + t3 is for some (hopefully) serious ab biznesss.

Got this stack on the order
I should create a log/photo progress, will be interesting to follow my first ph experience, especially looking back on it and myself being somewhat of a noob this year to a steady workout routine and proper diet (trained for 4 months, 4x a week with a pro boxer and now I'm out on my own, no trainer)

Just a bit of info on me too, I started working out seriously in January 07.....

This was me then right before I started working out (Dec20-06):
Image 1

And this is me as of a month ago (after a 3month bulk, no ph or anything, just serious training and decent eating):
Image 2

I think this new stack's going to transform me just a lil hehe. :woohoo:

 

[Gutterpump]

Ok, 1 more quick change to this stack.
Scratch the Mega-H so the stack will be either:

Alb + T3
Hemadrol
Methoxy TST
WinZtrol

or

Alb + T3
Methyl DX3
WinZtrol

Leaning more towards option 1 as I don't know as much about DX3, would need to do more research on that one.

Goals have changed a little since the beginning of this thread. Going for lean/dry gains + recomp instead of just a simple cut now.

 

[ThisGuy02]

Ok, 1 more quick change to this stack.
Scratch the Mega-H so the stack will be either:

Alb + T3
Hemadrol
Methoxy TST
WinZtrol

or

Alb + T3
Methyl DX3
WinZtrol

Leaning more towards option 1 as I don't know as much about DX3, would need to do more research on that one.

Goals have changed a little since the beginning of this thread. Going for lean/dry gains + recomp instead of just a simple cut now.

Good progress in a short time!

Yeah, DX3 is supposed to be just like Superdrol, so I don't know if you really want to go that route. I've read a lot of people's posts saying that you could get pretty cut on superdrol, but I personally prefer drier compounds. Your 1st option sounds like the way to go for lean dry mass and dropping bf.

1 question (and I'm not knocking it, just curious); why Methoxy TST? I ask only because there's very little info on it that I've been able to find. From what I've ready, it's best stacked with TRN (or a TRN clone), and for my money, I'd go with TRN in this stack in the first place...actually, that's exactly what I'm on right now, come to think of it, except I'm using T4 instead of T3.

As for the hema, good stuff! I think you'll like it alot. :head:

Definitely do log this, I'd be interested to see how your experience goes.

 

[Gutterpump]

Thanks!

Yeah I was considering the Methoxy TST because I saw a great log/progress on a Hema/M-TST stack. There is also the possibility of doing a Hema/Prop stack, but considering I am a noob to any PS / PH I am not so sure if that's necessary at this time. Maybe I will go the Hema/TRN/WinZtrol route instead, but again, as a noob - do you think that's hitting it a lil hard? I'm already prepared when it comes to PCT, and on a stack like that I would definately be adding cycle support, so maybe it's fine even for a first time user...but being a noob means I do not know how I may react to any PS/PH. I guess just being prepared is the best way to go, and also getting BP support on top of the cycle support should help considering I am also stacking T3/Alb. I've made an appointment to get blood-work and a physical done soon just to be sure/safe because that is a hefty stack hehe.

 

[ThisGuy02]

Thanks!

Yeah I was considering the Methoxy TST because I saw a great log/progress on a Hema/M-TST stack. There is also the possibility of doing a Hema/Prop stack, but considering I am a noob to any PS / PH I am not so sure if that's necessary at this time. Maybe I will go the Hema/TRN/WinZtrol route instead, but again, as a noob - do you think that's hitting it a lil hard? I'm already prepared when it comes to post cycle therapy, and on a stack like that I would definately be adding cycle support, so maybe it's fine even for a first time user...but being a noob means I do not know how I may react to any PS/PH. I guess just being prepared is the best way to go, and also getting BP support on top of the cycle support should help considering I am also stacking T3/Alb. I've made an appointment to get blood-work and a physical done soon just to be sure/safe because that is a hefty stack hehe.

Well, if this is your first stack ever, that may be a little advanced, only because you'll want to gauge your body's reaction. You may want to consider going Hema solo, or maybe Zol/TRN, or hema/zol.

 

[Gutterpump]

Well, if this is your first stack ever, that may be a little advanced, only because you'll want to gauge your body's reaction. You may want to consider going Hema solo, or maybe Zol/TRN, or hema/zol.

True. Ok I think this is how it will look now:

T3/Alb x 4 weeks
50mg Hema x 3 weeks, 75-100mg Hema X 3 weeks (4-6 week cycle...will see how it goes)
200mg Zol ed x 4 weeks, starting @ week 3 (4 week cycle)

+ staples

PCT:

NHA Stack starting end of week 5
Nolvadex starting end of week 5
will also have trione (6oxo) on hand
Paravol
7OXO
L-Tyrosine

+ staples


Will be taking cycle support during course of main cycle too.

 

[ThisGuy02]

True. Ok I think this is how it will look now:

T3/Alb x 4 weeks
50mg Hema x 3 weeks, 75-100mg Hema X 3 weeks (4-6 week cycle...will see how it goes)
200mg Zol ed x 4 weeks, starting @ week 3 (4 week cycle)

+ staples

post cycle therapy:

NHA Stack starting end of week 5
Nolvadex starting end of week 5
will also have trione (6oxo) on hand
Paravol
7OXO
L-Tyrosine

+ staples


Will be taking cycle support during course of main cycle too.

it's an impressive looking stack. let me know how the hema is for you at 75-100mg. I only went with the 50mg dose, and it was pretty nice.

 

[Gutterpump]

Will do, pretty sure I'm going to make a log for this and also for the PCT. I have to give you credit for influencing this stack hehe. I think it's going to be a great one, with strength gains stretching right through my PCT too.

 

[ThisGuy02]

Will do, pretty sure I'm going to make a log for this and also for the post cycle therapy. I have to give you credit for influencing this stack hehe. I think it's going to be a great one, with strength gains stretching right through my PCT too.

Well, thanks! Glad to help, man. Good luck and keep us posted. Should be a good one.

 

[Gutterpump]

Still thinking of running a log but I get a little lazy with it so we'll see, maybe just some small updates.

Been taking the Hemadrol for the past week (starting a week from Sunday) @ 50mg ed, and started the Zol a few days ago. Ramped quickly from 50mg of Zol to 100mg now (taking 50mg in am and 50 in pm). Going to start taking 200mg of zol at the beginning of the 3rd week.

I took almost 2 weeks off of the albuterol which I was taking previous to this cycle and was taking benadryl in am and pm while off. Well I started it again the same time I started the t3, just a few days ago. Started the T3 at 20mcg ed (10mcg in am, 10mcg in pm). Yesterday I took 20mcg in am with 4mg of alb and all I can say is wow :blink: sorta hit me like whoa...could've been the monster energy drink and redline that I accidentally had on top of it before hitting the gym (habit of mine to have these..shoulda known better..won't do that again). But I mean even 2-3 hours later my resting heartrate was just under 120bpm...laying down in the girl's bed...not doing anything special either lol....Problem is I love my coffee and my monster energy drinks (I'm a bit of a caffeine junky hehe), but I think I'm going to have to refrain from any sort of stims while on this cycle completely, unless it's just a simple coffee here n there, or a small energy drink before my workouts for an extra kick if needed.

This should be an interesting cycle though...I'm already getting much more cut and vascular (while still growing) but it's not due to anything I'm taking just yet. I'll attribute it to diet and increased cardio / more intense workouts (and newbie gains) ...but I can only imagine how well this cycle will benefit my cut once in full force.

 

[Gutterpump]

bumpin this with a lil feedback.

Well I've been taking the t3 solo (without the albuterol that is) for most of this cycle. Couple days ago I received my albuterol and ketotifen. This was also the end of my 4th week on the hema/zol (which has been very nice btw).

Well, as of yesterday I lowered my hema to 25mg, still taking 300mg zol, and added 25mg of ergomax. This is now week 5 (beginning of).

Well I also took 1/2ml of ketotifen last night....and I've got to say that today I am about as lethargic as I've ever been, almost like I didn't sleep in 2 days. I think this is the effects of the t3 and albuterol together most likely but could be attributed to higher amount of PH in my body now, but it's likely a combo of all the above. Don't think I was prepared for the lethargy...making me pretty useless this morning. At least a few cups of coffee seem to be helping it a bit tho...but wow...haven't felt this lethargic since pulling consecutive all-nighters. Btw, the ketotifen will make you very drowsy but that's why I take it at night, shouldn't effect you during the day (as far as I know).

Just thought I'd post a lil update and warning to people wanting to try the t3/alb combo...expect massive lethargy..oh and a huge increase in appetite (with an affinity for massive carb consumption) :food: Taking a lot of willpower lol, but I'm raising my cals a bit now during these last 2 weeks anyhow so it's ok.

 

[conan1071]

is albuterol better than clen for cutting

 

[Gutterpump]

is albuterol better than clen for cutting

No, clen is definately better, but albuterol has far fewer sides and is less harsh.
TBH I have not done clen, so that above statement is based off of 2nd hand knowledge...but it is the general consensus and I have seen first hand results of both being used by the same person, and clen showed better results.

Albuterol was good for a first cycle for me. I think I might try clen some time in the future...pretty sure I can handle the sides now that I've tried a few high-dose albuterol days. I have no doubt that clen/t3 would be an ultimate cutter...but not for a beginner by any means.

BTW - I found that I became tolerant to the albuterol extremely fast when not taking ketotifen. Like I'm talking within a few days, which is not normal for albuterol or clen, it should take at least 2 weeks...maybe my adrenal system is somewhat shot from excessive caffeine/energy drink use for years straight....so ketotifen and/or Reset AD will always be on hand for me now. Looking forward to RPM + Reset AD during my PCT. Will be my first time giving both products a shot.

 

[ThisGuy02]

is albuterol better than clen for cutting

no, clen is much more effective. however, it is also much more dangerous and has stronger sides. that isn't to say you should take albuterol lightly, one needs to excercise caution, research and plan properly for use of either, but the sides experienced w/ alb. are pretty much relegated to some manegable headaches the first few days.

oh, and on alb. you can do cardio for days without fatiguing.

 

[Gutterpump]

that isn't to say you should take albuterol lightly, one needs to excercise caution, research and plan properly for use of either

Yeah I completely agree. Albuterol WILL cause tachycardia in any user, and you must be 100% sure your body can take that and be prepared for this. Make sure you're healthy (especially cardiovascular wise) before getting into any of this stuff.

Personally, I didn't get the headaches at first, but I did get shakes/tremors and occassional heart palpitations coupled with a bit of anxiety. This all became manageable for me over time/use and by adjusting my doseage accordingly.