[ms84]

i have researched and have decided to start the CKD diet?? i have outlined a food list, but was wondering if anyone had a good link for a complete food list for the diet part?? thanks

[Ubiquitous]

Pretty easy. Meat, eggs, good fats.. some leafy greens like spinach in limited quantities. If it's a true CKD, then you have a supercompensation phase. It would do you good to look at Militant Underground Body Opus by Dan Duchaine if you want a good CKD plan.

[Spitdeath]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Pretty easy. Meat, eggs, good fats.. some leafy greens like spinach in limited quantities. If it's a true CKD, then you have a supercompensation phase. It would do you good to look at Militant Underground Body Opus by Dan Duchaine if you want a good CKD plan.

Dan's book has some flaws Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald addresses these.

[Ubiquitous]

I have heard of that, I'll check it out.

In reality you take what works from programs (if you understand the concepts) and make it work for you as an individual.

CKD works for me tremendously well. I am very lean, with very prominent abs for the majority of the year, and still build LBM due to the supercompensation periods. Some people go to sh1t without carbs, some don't.

[SureShot]

I would be one of those that go to **** without carbs, carb cycling or just eating the majority of my carbs around workouts seems to do the trick though.

[Ubiquitous]

CKD is carb cycling by definition. A lot of carb cycling programs have frequent fluctions of carbs, but some have the long droughts.

[xjsynx]

Originally Posted by Spitdeath

Dan's book has some flaws Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald addresses these.

I've heard the same...Might give it a try, or the Anabolic Solution by
Dr. Di Pasquale

[EasyEJL]

I've got a CKD question. I read in an article http://www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=34 that you want 1.5 gm of fat to 1 gm of protein, and at least 1gm of protein per pound of lean body mass.

Holy cow, how do I get that much fat in a day? It would be 240g, so basically a full 8 oz. do I need to drink a cup of olive oil? I suppose that will help cut out the atkins constipation

Is that ratio off? cause with the 9 cal / g of fat, that would mean 2160 cals from fat, 680 from protein

[natiels]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

I've got a CKD question. I read in an article http://www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=34 that you want 1.5 gm of fat to 1 gm of protein, and at least 1gm of protein per pound of lean body mass.

Holy cow, how do I get that much fat in a day? It would be 240g, so basically a full 8 oz. do I need to drink a cup of olive oil? I suppose that will help cut out the atkins constipation

Is that ratio off? cause with the 9 cal / g of fat, that would mean 2160 cals from fat, 680 from protein

I tried doing around 50% cals from fat and it was not good for me. I did not feel good eating all that fat, even with a large portion of it coming from nuts and olive oil. I recently started on a CKD type diet again and my daily fat is a lot lower. I still do 1gm/lb protein, but kinda just get whatever fat I happen to get in. I eat almonds and cottage cheese daily with some string cheese thrown in once in a while (foods I eat with the most fat). I feel way better doing this and it has been working well for me.

Basically what Ubi said above is the best advice for any type of diet.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

In reality you take what works from programs (if you understand the concepts) and make it work for you as an individual.

If you find yourself failing when following the specifc rules of a diet DO NOT give up. Start tweaking instead. Everyone is different and once you find what works for you it becomes a lot easier.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by natiels

If you find yourself failing when following the specifc rules of a diet DO NOT give up. Start tweaking instead. Everyone is different and once you find what works for you it becomes a lot easier.

Well, I did the CKD shopping trip lots of pork, the unleanest ground beef, low sugar peanut butter, cheeeeeeese, plus a quart of flax seed oil. I redid the math, and using a lot of flax seed out, and panfrying vegetables that are good absorbers in olive + grapeseed oil, I think I can do at least 1:1 fats : protein by the gram. Each tablespoon of flax oil is 14g of fat, so 8 of those a day is 112gm worth, which will offset 4 protein shakes. Then all I have to do is eat a bunch of beef and cheese. I purposefully picked cheeses with more fat than protein, and low carbs. I should be able to no sweat keep carbs below 20g a day, other than on the carb load day. Then its pizza and coronas all day long

[Bionic]

I supplemented flax, fish and coconut oil w/my diet (that I used to get the physique in my avvy) and it made it that much easier.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by Bionic

I supplemented flax, fish and coconut oil w/my diet (that I used to get the physique in my avvy) and it made it that much easier.

My local publix didn't have any coconut oil. I'm already taking in around 3gm of fish oil, but probably could stand more. Maybe cod liver oil? I guess I don't have to worry about the Atkins cheese binding effect with all that oil

My wife is stopping by a local Wild Oats (organic market) who has coconut oil, so I should be all set!

[Jarconis]

shots of EVOO for the win!

[Fireproof]

Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald

The second solution, and the one I suspect most readers are aware of is the cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). A CKD refers to any diet which alternates periods of low-carbohydrate (or ketogenic eating) with periods of high-carbohydrate eating. Diets such as DiPasquale's "Anabolic" and "Metabolic" diets, Dan's Bodyopus, and Faigan's NHE are all examples of CKD's. At the end of this book, I even offer my own take on the CKD, a redevelopment of the original Ultimate Diet that Duchaine and Zumpano introduced over 20 years ago.

CKD's are another compromise diet approach: they switch between a ketogenic/low-carbohydrate phase (for anywhere from 5 or more days) and a high-carb phase (lasting from 12 to 48 hours or more) to restore muscle glycogen and hopefully generate an anabolic response. They are for those athletic individuals who, for one reason or another, needs to restrict carbohydrates severely, but sustain exercise performance.

Active individuals with severe (diagnosed) insulin resistance or even the beginning of Type II diabetes tend to fare poorly on CKDs; the extended carb-load period causes all of the problems that they are trying to avoid in the first place. The TKD is more appropriate for them.

The rest of the article can be seen here.

It's a good read as you consider your strategy.

I've done a couple carb-cycling approaches - Twin Peak's Carb Cycle, and Lyle's Ultimate Diet 2.0. Both are great, though I do prefer Lyle's approach as it coordinates a specific training plan to go with it to maximize nutrient partitioning and take advantage of the glycogen supercompensation effect on carb-up day.

You can check out his book here if you haven't seen it.

Even if you don't follow the diet, the first half of the book is an awesome reference for the physiology education alone.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by Jarconis

shots of EVOO for the win!

I was drinking flax oil out of a port wine glass the other night. I've lost my freakin mind