Keto Question/Problem

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    Keto Question/Problem


    I use a urinalysis test strip called Multistix 10SG.

    It shows:
    Leukocytes
    nitrite
    urobilinogen
    protein
    ph
    blood
    specific gravity
    ketones
    bilirubin
    glucose


    I've been in ketosis probably about 5 days. I tested my urine today and I have a moderate amount of blood (which is the maximum on the test strip) and a moderate amount of leukocytes (wbc's).

    Does anyone know if this is normal .........I should have done a baseline test before I started but I didn't.

    I know this much protein can be hard on the kidney but I thought it would take longer to do any damage that would cause blood to show up.

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    Bump for Bobo, Chi_town, etc.
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    Protein should NEVER cause blood in your urine. As long as your drinking adequate amounts of water, there shouldn't be any problems at all. What else are you taking and are you dieting extremely hard?
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    well, that is what I'm concerned about.
    Right now, I'm clean.

    I was gonna start with some t3 this week as I carb up and add clen, but haven't yet.

    My diet is strict. Less than 20 carbs a day, if that. Protein at every meal..........shakes in between. At least one huge salad a day.......multiple vitamin and extra calcium.

    All I've been taking is an allergy med called singulair along with a new drug that came out in February, called Strattera.


    MatthewD had suggested the possiblity of a kidney infection/UTI.......which is not out of the question...but I do not have any signs or symptoms of one, not running a fever either.
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    When did you test?

    I have seen a similar post elsewhere, and the cause was later determined to just be the result of exercise.

    Found the thread have a read

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=urine+blood
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    I tested at night after coming back from the gym.....


    I have read blood in urine can be a result of muscle wasting........but I didn't feel that was what this was.
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    Kidney Stones


    Do you have a personal or family history with kidney stones?

    My family has a history and they all had them detected by their urine being analyzed at a physical. They had no physical symptoms, but those came later. My Mom gets them real bad so last time they found some blood in her urine they sent her to radiology (can't remember if they did MRI or CAT scan) and caught a tumor (not the cause of the blood but showed up in the side of the picture) early.

    ~Todd
    Last edited by tatortodd; 06-07-2003 at 05:08 PM.
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    Originally posted by Rhapsody
    I tested at night after coming back from the gym.....


    I have read blood in urine can be a result of muscle wasting........but I didn't feel that was what this was.
    I think its something else, maybe an existing probelm your not aware of? High Protein diets should not even come close to causing this and with keto diet and the amount of animal fats usually consumed actually help kidney functions.

    10. J. Dwyer and others. Diet, indicators of kidney disease, and late mortality among older persons in the NHANES I Epidemiologic Follow-up Study. Amer J of Pub Health, 1994, 848): 1299-1303.

    11. M. Enig. Saturated fats and the kidneys. Wise Traditions, 2000, 1:3:49. Posted at http://www.westonaprice.org.
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    Originally posted by Rhapsody
    I tested at night after coming back from the gym.....
    Clearly you should take this seriously and see a Dr to find out for sure, but the fact that you tested after coming back from the gym strongly suggests this was caused by exercise, not muscle wasting.

    I'm with Bobo, keto won't have caused this, your protein intake isn't that much more than your pre-keto or normal cutting diet anyway I would guess.

    Sexual intercourse can also cause this.
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    Well, I started taking Biaxin two days ago (did not see the Dr/had some at home).....and now I have NO blood and just a scant amount of WBC's in my urine.

    I guess the problem was renal related instead of keto realated.


    I swim in an indoor pool during the winter. But during the summer, I use an outside unheated pool at a state recreational park directly in front of my house......cause it's just more convenient and it's just good to be outside in the sun.

    who knows what caused it......but I'm gonna keep a close eye on it since I swim.


    Thanks guys, for letting me bend your ear. I was seriously worried.
    Appreciate all the help and ideas.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    I think its something else, maybe an existing probelm your not aware of? High Protein diets should not even come close to causing this and with keto diet and the amount of animal fats usually consumed actually help kidney functions.

    10. J. Dwyer and others. Diet, indicators of kidney disease, and late mortality among older persons in the NHANES I Epidemiologic Follow-up Study. Amer J of Pub Health, 1994, 848): 1299-1303.

    11. M. Enig. Saturated fats and the kidneys. Wise Traditions, 2000, 1:3:49. Posted at http://www.westonaprice.org.






    you should have been a Dr.
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    What's up.... found this board by way of Chi_town (thanks bro)

    I had the same problem last year where blood was in my urine.... I was at about 450g protein/day.... I formed a stone in my kidneys and in turn it caused internal bleeding in them....
    My liver and kidney enzyme levels were also extremely high (on scales of 8-50 i was at 151 and 172)..... The elevation in those enzyme levels was due to a few different factors from what I was told.... I was injesting 4-500g of protein daily, plus androstenedione for 6 weeks at this point. I was drinking about 1 and ahalf - 2 gal. of water a day.
    I was sent to 2 Urologists and both said similar things to me. Protein will pass through your kidney walls and without propper amounts of liquid to help it be filtered it will crystalize inside your kidney thus forming a stone. The second part of this was that since protein is such a binding substance it had actually latched onto my kidney walls and was literally stuck to it. This is what caused the blood in my urine. The stone was actually tearing my kidney wall as it was trying to be passed through. I was told to immedietely cease the amount of protein to under 50g/day and keep my water up at 2 gal/day as I was. Luckily it finally was able to break itself up and I didnt have to pass it like most do or have the surgery to remove it.
    Now what I was confused about was the fact that I was drinking what I thought to be ample water.... but apparently I was taking in too much protein and in combination with the amount of sweating I do while lifting and during cardio it wasnt enough to keep up with my protein intake.

    I finally had to wait about 6-8 months for my enzymes to drop and my kidneys were healed.... I am back up at 4-500g of protein a day with AT LEAST 2 gallons of water each day.... I am tested once a month now and have seen no reoccurrence of what happened... I have slight elevations but nothing I need to be as concerned about.... I also have Zero history of stones in my family so maybe the Doctors were right.
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    Originally posted by Bouncer79
    I am back up at 4-500g of protein a day with AT LEAST 2 gallons of water each day....
    Unless you 250+ on AAS, thats entirely WAY too much protein.

    And it better be 250lb of mostly LBM. No wonder you had problems.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    Unless you 250+ on AAS, thats entirely WAY too much protein.
    Agreed
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    I am currently 206 LBM, and not currently on AAS.... when I had the problems my LBM was MUCH lower but now at 206 is 450 still too much even though I am testing clear my liver and kidneys?
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    Yes. From all the recommendations, and personal experiences with people outside the supp industry (no biases), my recommendation along with others is around 1.1 - 1.5g/KG of bodyweight. I'm currently 229lb and usually go for 200-230g per day and that has served me well for all occasions (bulking/cutting). People tend to go everboard when its not needed.
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    Here's the view from a frioend of mine who's opinion I value highly.

    "I disagree with the mainstream bodybuilding community that supports higher protein diets for several reasons. This is going to be a choppy presentation rather than a smooth dialogue.

    First itís important to understand some basic nutritional biochemistry.

    After proteins are broken down into their constituent amino acids your body reassembles amino acids in specific orders for specific functions. Once the reassembled proteins are used for their purposes, amino acid residue, the portion of the amino acid that is left over after the nitrogenous portion has been stripped away, is either glycogenic (capable of converting to glucose) or ketogenic (capable of converting to ketones). Only three amino acids are ketogenic. Through a process known as gluconeogenesis the residue is converted to glucose, contributing to the overall energy demands. Therefore, excess protein above what your body requires for building and repairing structural tissues is converted into glucose and utilized for energy or stored as fat.

    Hence, positive nitrogen balance refers to an environment positive for growth since excess nitrogen is excreted by your body through your urine, feces, etc. Positive nitrogen retention indicates an upper limit of protein intake for the purpose of building and repairing structural tissues.

    Most reliable resources of information that do not profit from the sales of supplements have found that the upper limit of protein intake for strength athletes is 1.1 to 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, assuming a lean condition. Surprisingly long duration aerobic athletes require more protein than strength athletes for gluconeogenesis. Check the latest DRI research for more information.

    Therefore, a massively built bodybuilder such as Mentzer who weighed in around 215lbs requires 110 to 150 grams of protein per day to maintain and build his muscles. Interestingly enough, through phone and email conversations I had with Mentzer, I learned that he consumed between 75-100 grams of protein per day during his í79 (?) competition against Arnold. In other words, this drug abusing heavyweight managed to exceed the development of most trainers in the world and on this forum (I assume) consuming as little as 1g/kg or 0.45g/lbs of protein per day.

    An additional argument against high protein diets is the protein needs of an infant. Protein needs are highest during the first year of birth. Infants will double their birth weight in the first six months and triple birth weight during the first year. No bodybuilder, steroids or no steroids, would be able to match these enormous changes. Yet an infant requires around 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram or 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Teenagers aged 15 to 18 years also undergo rapid muscular growth during puberty and require 50-60 grams of protein per day. Relative to an infant or teenager, most advanced bodybuilders do not grow nearly as much. Its doubtful that the daily protein requirements exceeds an infants. Furthermore, the weight of muscle is mostly water, approx 70%, so why wouldnít drinking more water lead to larger muscles?

    The truth is that you canít force your body to utilize more protein above its needs. Its no different than vitamin c, mega-dosing vitamins is not any more productive, the excess is excreted. With protein, the excess is converted into glucose or ketones, and stored or burned. Only if the diet is deficient will supplementation provide a benefit. Besides, there is no guarantee that the additional protein will be utilized to build the structural tissues. For amino acids to be used specifically for protein synthesis they must be capable of, and combine with, specific enzymes used to facilitate the process. Why not look into consuming more enzymes?

    Few athletes look at the unity of the organism. They fail to have a holistic approach, looking for a singular cause of specific results, rather than looking at a single process in its relationship to a whole. So you have bodybuilders that just count protein and calories, but are deficient in vitamins, minerals, and essential fats. This is an indication of a lack of education, or at least not reading scientifically based textbooks but profit orientated magazines."



    Now a lot of people will have different opinion through different experiences, but the totals I posted above have worked for me for a long time. Your body will be difrerent so you might need more or less, but nowhere near 450g/day.
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    Appreciate the input.... thanks
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    No prob, your kidneys will thank you for it
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    I read at a few places that eating more than 30g of protein in one sitting is useless, that it is simply not digested. For a long time, whenever I exceeded 30g in my shake, I would have the foulest-smelling gas in the entire universe... On deadlift day, that's not nice.

    Anyways, to get 200g protein, I would need to have 30g 7 times a day... OTOH, I have read a few of you guys taking in 45g or even 60g at any one time... Does this work?
  

  
 

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