Pre-Workout more important than Post Workout?

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  1. Sorry to bring this up again, but I've NEVER read Berardi recommending&nbsp ; carbs before your workout. So in that case could a P/F meal pre-w be more important that post-w too?


  2. Originally posted by Bobo
    THis is an idea that zeppelin informed me of and I was really interested in this concept. It would easily fit into the Low GI post workout timing also.

    Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

    Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

    Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. [email protected]

    The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

    Publication Types:
    Clinical Trial


    Say bye bye to your N-large II junk....

    I'm not sure this is a revelation............but it looks to me that it's reason to continue popping my liver tabs a bit of time pre-WO. LOL

    Pre WO more important than PW overall.......I'm not convinced. But why not practice both and get the best results. I opt for more emphasis on post WO.

    PEACE
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  3. I think the big surprise is that are some are eliminating the post-workout altogether. I'm not convinced of that but for the most part thats biggest surprise to people overall. I agree with you in that both should work the best. I threw it out there more for discussion than anything...
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  4. I think people who haven't done so, yet, would be pleasantly surprised if they started implementing a pre/during work-out shake ... I know I was.

    As for Berardi, he has made mention of the Tipton study in one of his Q&A columns and said that because of it he started drinking half of his post workout shake either before or during his workout.

  5. The idea is that you can keep a moderate level of carbohydrate during the day, and then make them available during exercise if you consume them just before training. Your are not storing them as glycogen, your body will use them before that. If taken pre workout, the flux of nutrients into the working cells is a few hundred percent higher. That means that more of the nutrients go to feuling and recovering the cells that you want it to.

    Also, and this is key to this discussion, the pre-workout outperformed during the postworkout period than did the same drink taken immediately after a workout. Now if that does not show it potential, I give up.

    Also the EAA have shown a 2-4 fold increase in protein anabolism over a mixed protein. And that is if that is free form. Probably even higher if it is a peptide.
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  6. Zeppelin: I've been aware of the free form eaa thing for a while now, but besides the product you've got coming out and bcaa's, is there anyone who even sells eaa's?

  7. Not if you don't want to pay with your first born child! And they are most often in tablet form because EAA are the most putrid tasting substance known to man. Tablets elicit a controlled release. We want to take advantage of the free form status and severely spike the blood levels to get the greatest response.

  8. I've been drinking a post workout shake during my workout, finishing half of it before the end of my workout. I have found that it be a plus during my workout and post workout.

    Although I'm ashame to admit that I got the idea from a Flex article several months ago.

    Question . . . Can I eat a carb meal pre-workout although I'm on a low carb diet? I presently do the oatmeal now after my workout.

    Thanks
    Angel

  9. i found this on a search & probably some of the contributors to the thread are long gone but i recently started having Vince Gironda's Power Breakfast (eggs & mushrooms fried in butter) & 6 liver tabs.

    i train about 60-90 minutes later & am having fantastic workouts.
    i feel strong & have plenty of energy.

    love trying new things.

    Jag

  10. IOW, try to keep nutrient levels high and continous throughout.

    In some ways the pre-workout meal can certainly change your post workout meal.

    Thanks Alan, I try to keep it nice and tidy.
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  11. pre & postW meals/shakes shouldn't be pigeonholed as separate entities which can be judged against eachother in terms of importance. there should actually be an attempt to achieve steady infusion of substrates throughout the training bout, which is picked up/continued & hiked up by the postworkout meal. to digress from the traditional view, even the timing of the so-called postW meal can be shifted around to various points during training to maximize blood levels of substrate immediately postW.

    the timing & composition of the preworkout meal does in fact dictate the behavior of the postworkout meal, but just because this is so doesn't mean it's more important. substrate levels in the blood should be elevated at all points proximal to the training bout, including postW for maximal anabolic/anticatabolic effect. there are always many other contingencies to consider here, like what & when your preW or duringW was consumed -- because these variables can change the whole game.. in the end, postW intake has been overhyped in the domain of conventional wisdom, but there's still no need to drop the baby once you've saved it from drowning in the bathwater [you get the picture, heh]. sandwich that training bout with goodies for the best results. i still maintain my philosophy that they are equally important.

    hello bobo, nice board you have here.

  12. Uh...

    Look above
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    IOW, try to keep nutrient levels high and continous throughout.

    In some ways the pre-workout meal can certainly change your post workout meal.

    Thanks Alan, I try to keep it nice and tidy.
    hey do people who have debated with you for over 4 pages automatically get a shirt? if so, i'll pm you my address

  14. Only if you promise to wear it at your seminars
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Only if you promise to wear it at your seminars
    haha. i'd buy the buggah just to support fellow soljahs in da struggle nah mean, lol. plus the dietitians in the audience might go into cardiac arrest at the word "anabolic".

  16. alan great to see you hear, i cant wait for your new article, based on your recent posts it looks like its going to concentrate on timing alot more than GI/composition

    damn i cant wait for it!!!

  17. Dieticians go into cardiac arrest over many words. They are a tightly wound group
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  18. Talking


    mmmm krispy kremes...

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Dieticians go into cardiac arrest over many words. They are a tightly wound group
    taffer - i will try to bury the bases, that is of course until the next round of studies forces us to revise our perceptions.

    bobo - that's very true man.. you should see those gals cut loose at a bar!

  20. For what it's worth, pre-workout nutrition got me past a plateau during my last bulk, and I'm sure it will again. I also switched to LOW-GI, with lean results.

  21. Good to hear.

    If it did that, its worth a lot
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  22. Damn good reading.

  23. Zeppelin: I've been aware of the free form eaa thing for a while now, but besides the product you've got coming out and bcaa's, is there anyone who even sells eaa's?
    PRD makes a product called nitromine, which is free form aminos. The cheapest I have seen it for was 45.00 though. Then there is the bcaa and glutamine drink mixes.

  24. Vendetta.
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  25. Well, ICE is their pure-BCAA mix. Vendetta has some sugars tossed in.

    So it depends what you need with the BCAAs and if you're taking it with anything (CHO) already.

    I've used ICE, though. A little grainy and it didn't mix well, but a decent taste (fruit punch)
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