Glutamine: A very important amino acid to prevent overtraining

  1. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Glutamine: A very important amino acid to prevent overtraining


    As the study suggets, glutamine levels were an indicator of overtraining. Therefore, it is safe to say that raising glutamine levels could prevent this quite a bit, mainly be decreasing recovery time. The study also points out that you can compound this overtraining stress. Glutamine ingestion post workout would be very beneficial in this respect. The second study indicates the usefulness, again, of glutamine in that it increases glycogen storage post workout.


    The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining.

    Glutamine is an amino acid essential for many important homeostatic functions and for the optimal functioning of a number of tissues in the body, particularly the immune system and the gut. However, during various catabolic states, such as infection, surgery, trauma and acidosis, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress, and glutamine reserves, particularly in the skeletal muscle, are depleted. With regard to glutamine metabolism, exercise stress may be viewed in a similar light to other catabolic stresses. Plasma glutamine responses to both prolonged and high intensity exercise are characterised by increased levels during exercise followed by significant decreases during the post-exercise recovery period, with several hours of recovery required for restoration of pre-exercise levels, depending on the intensity and duration of exercise. If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. Athletes suffering from the overtraining syndrome (OTS) appear to maintain low plasma glutamine levels for months or years. All these observations have important implications for organ functions in these athletes, particularly with regard to the gut and the cells of the immune system, which may be adversely affected. In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state.



    Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise

    The purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy of glutamine in promoting whole body carbohydrate storage and muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Postabsorptive subjects completed a glycogen-depleting exercise protocol, then consumed 330 ml of one of three drinks, 18.5% (wt/vol) glucose polymer solution, 8 g glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution, or 8 g glutamine in 330 ml placebo, and also received a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]glucose for 2 h. Plasma glutamine concentration was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks (0.7-1.1 mM, P < 0.05). In the second hour of recovery, whole body nonoxidative glucose disposal was increased by 25% after consumption of glutamine in addition to the glucose polymer (4.48 &#177; 0.61 vs. 3.59 &#177; 0.18 mmol/kg, P < 0.05). Oral glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an extent similar to oral glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site being the liver.

  2. Registered User
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Poised on the brink of disaster.
    Posts
    6,372
    Rep Power
    10345

    Of all the supplements which whipsaw me back and forth with conflicting studies, glutamine seems the worst. Just when I'm convinced one way or another, something compelling comes to support the other argument.

    Thanks for posting these (YR goes off to think).
  3. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright
    Of all the supplements which whipsaw me back and forth with conflicting studies, glutamine seems the worst. Just when I'm convinced one way or another, something compelling comes to support the other argument.

    Thanks for posting these (YR goes off to think).
    To tell you the truth I didn't even see any bad studies when i was digging through them?

    I think you may be referring to the study that says glutamine taken during exercise has no effect, I did see that study, but the study also mentioned that after exercise it DID show improvement.
    •   
       

  4. Banned
    Brent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Dakota
    Age
    27
    Posts
    939
    Rep Power
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    To tell you the truth I didn't even see any bad studies when i was digging through them?

    I think you may be referring to the study that says glutamine taken during exercise has no effect, I did see that study, but the study also mentioned that after exercise it DID show improvement.

    What amounts were needed to show an improvement? (in that study)
  5. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent
    What amounts were needed to show an improvement? (in that study)
    Well in the first study they were just determining that people who had overtraining syndrome all had really low plasma glutamine levels. That is important, however, as it shows that glutamine post workout could be beneficial.

    In the second study, however, they used 8g. Not saying that is the best dosage to take but that is what they chose.
  6. rollin' on dubs!
    WannaBeHulk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  178 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Age
    30
    Posts
    923
    Rep Power
    567

    from personal experience, i have glutamine to be very beneficial as of late. just last week, i started a new diet and my during/postworkout shake consists of 1 scoop whey isolate, 20g BCAA's, and 20g glutamine. i admit that i overtrain and other gym members always crack jokes about how much i pay for rent at the gym or if i have a bed set up somewhere. sipping on this concoction during my workouts has definitely improved energy levels and increased my mood state while in a caloric deficit! i feel it is working nicely. im not worn out the rest of the day from training anymore. something is being effective, maybe the glutamine? possibly a placebo effect? what i do know is that i wont dare to change this seeing how things are going.
  7. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Quote Originally Posted by WannaBeHulk
    from personal experience, i have glutamine to be very beneficial as of late. just last week, i started a new diet and my during/postworkout shake consists of 1 scoop whey isolate, 20g BCAA's, and 20g glutamine. i admit that i overtrain and other gym members always crack jokes about how much i pay for rent at the gym or if i have a bed set up somewhere. sipping on this concoction during my workouts has definitely improved energy levels and increased my mood state while in a caloric deficit! i feel it is working nicely. im not worn out the rest of the day from training anymore. something is being effective, maybe the glutamine? possibly a placebo effect? what i do know is that i wont dare to change this seeing how things are going.
    Here are a couple more studies. What I am getting out of these studies is that using these before and after exercise seems to be best. I would probably save the glutamine either for the end of your workout or possibly 30 mins.-1 hour before hand. I know that last study I have in there is long but it talks about BCAA's and EAA's being used for energy during muscle degradation.


    Branched-chain amino acids augment ammonia metabolism while attenuating protein breakdown during exercise


    D. A. MacLean, T. E. Graham and B. Saltin
    School of Human Biology, University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada.

    In this study, five men exercised the knee extensor muscles of one leg for 60 min (71 +/- 2% maximal work capacity) with and without (control) an oral supplement (77 mg/kg) of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA). BCAA supplementation resulted in a doubling (P < 0.05) of the arterial BCAA levels before exercise (339 +/- 15 vs. 822 +/- 86 microM). During the 60 min of exercise, the total release of BCAA was 68 +/- 93 vs. 816 +/- 198 mumol/kg (P < 0.05) for the BCAA and control trials, respectively. The intramuscular BCAA concentrations were higher (P < 0.05) for the BCAA trial and remained higher (P < 0.05) throughout exercise. In both trials, substantial quantities of NH3 were released, and when NH3 production equivalent to IMP accumulation was subtracted the net NH3 production was 1,112 +/- 279 and 1,670 +/- 245 mumol/kg (P < 0.05) for the control and BCAA trials, respectively. In contrast, the release of the essential amino acids (EAA) was much lower for the BCAA than the control trial (P < 0.05). When the BCAA were subtracted from the EAA (EAA-BCAA), the total release of EAA minus BCAA was lower (P < 0.05) for the BCAA (531 +/- 70 mumol/kg) than the control (924 +/- 148 mumol/kg) trial. These data suggest that BCAA supplementation results in significantly greater muscle NH3 production during exercise. Furthermore, the increased intramuscular and arterial BCAA levels before and during exercise result in a suppression of endogenous muscle protein breakdown during exercise.



    BCAA intake affects protein metabolism in muscle after but not during exercise in humans

    Eva Blomstrand and Bengt Saltin

    Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, Rigshospitalet, DK-2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark

    Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or a placebo was given to seven subjects during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period. Intake of BCAA did not influence the rate of exchange of the aromatic amino acids, tyrosine and phenylalanine, in the legs during exercise or the increase in their concentration in muscle. The increase was ~30% in both conditions. On the other hand, in the recovery period after exercise, a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids was found in the BCAA experiment (46% compared with 25% in the placebo condition). There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs during the 2-h recovery. The results suggest that BCAA have a protein-sparing effect during the recovery after exercise, either that protein synthesis has been stimulated and/or protein degradation has decreased, but the data during exercise are too variable to make any conclusions about the effects during exercise. The effect in the recovery period does not seem to be mediated by insulin.




    The Metabolic Fates of Amino Acids and the Formation of
    Glutamine in Skeletal Muscle*


    These studies have examined whether skeletal muscle
    during fasting uses amino acids derived from muscle protein
    breakdown as an energy source or as precursors in the
    synthesis of glutamine and alanine. Diaphragms from fasting
    rats were incubated in vitro to study the fates of
    aspartate, asparagine, glutamate, isoleucine, and valine,
    the only amino acids that can be converted to tricarboxylic
    acid cycle intermediates in muscle.
    Although these five amino acids comprise about 28% of
    the residues in diaphragm protein, they accounted for only
    about 14% of the amino acids released into the medium. The
    fraction (50%) of these amino acids generated by protein
    breakdown but not released by the tissue may be accounted
    for by conversion to glutamine. Although glutamine comprises
    only about 6% of the amino acids in muscle protein, it
    accounted for about 25% of the amino acids released. This
    additional amount of glutamine was equivalent to the missing
    amount of aspartic acid, asparagine, glutamic acid,
    isoleucine, and valine.
    Diaphragms were incubated with L-[UJ4C]valine, L-[U-
    “Claspartate, and 12,3-‘YJsuccinate, and the metabolites
    released into the medium were resolved by high voltage
    electrophoresis. In all cases, the radioactivity recovered in
    glutamine and glutamate was twice that in lactate and
    pyruvate, and 30 times that in alanine. The measured rate
    of lactate and pyruvate release was 1.5 times that of pyruvate
    oxidation, and 18 times that of alanine release. Thus,
    more than 50% of the carbon chains of aspartic acid,
    asparagine, glutamic acid, isoleucine, and valine entering
    the tricarboxylic acid cycle appear to be converted to glutamine,
    while the remainder are converted via pyruvate to
    CO, for energy (less than 20%). or to lactate (less than 30%)
    and alanine (less than 2%). which are released from the
    muscle.
    These experiments together indicate: 1) isoleucine and
    valine are not oxidized completely to CO, in skeletal muscle,
    2) the carbon chain of alanine is not derived from other
    * This work was supported by grants from the National Institute
    of Neurological Disease and Stroke, National Aeronautics and Space
    Administration, and Muscular Dystrophy Association of America.
    The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the
    payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby
    marked “advertisement” in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section 1734
    solely to indicate this fact.
    f Present address, Center for Cancer Research, Massachusetts
    Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Mass. 02139
    P Recipient of a Research Career Development Award from the
    Nationai Institute of Neurological Disease and Stroke
    amino acids and 3) aspartic acid, asparagine, glutamic acid,
    isoleucine and valine derived from muscle protein are
    mainly converted to glutamine prior to release from muscle.
    And this process may be an important step in gluconeogenesis
    from muscle protein.
    The rate of oxidation of acetyl groups by diaphragms
    from fasting rats incubated only with glucose was calculated
    from the rate of OZ consumption. Amino acids derived
    from the breakdown of muscle protein contributed about .5%
    of the acetyl groups oxidized in the tissue, most of which
    were contributed by leucine. When leucine is provided
    exogenously, it can contribute a greater fraction of the
    acetyl-CoA oxidized.
  8. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    Definitely seem to be recovering better from these TUT workouts by using GEE pre and post workout. I've used lots of regular glutamine in the past and it has not helped as much as this new form.

    This may be due to glut's propensity to convert to glycogen ..or it may be that glut is actually reaching the muscle.

    Bobo is definitely of the opinion that glut is junk and he is armed to the teeth with studies indicating so. Search up some really old threads where he has some epic battles on glutamine supplementation.

    For now, I am continuing to test out Custom's GEE and it seems to be going well. I'll really put it to the test after I move and start to bulk in earnest.
  9. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    Definitely seem to be recovering better from these TUT workouts by using GEE pre and post workout. I've used lots of regular glutamine in the past and it has not helped as much as this new form.

    This may be due to glut's propensity to convert to glycogen ..or it may be that glut is actually reaching the muscle.

    Bobo is definitely of the opinion that glut is junk and he is armed to the teeth with studies indicating so. Search up some really old threads where he has some epic battles on glutamine supplementation.

    For now, I am continuing to test out Custom's GEE and it seems to be going well. I'll really put it to the test after I move and start to bulk in earnest.
    Yeah let us all know how it goes. I definitely don't think glutamine is "junk". The cost:benefit ratio may be high for some but to say its junk is pushing it a bit far. The study above talks about AA's as fuel though.
  10. ***** Vampire
    goldylight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mordor
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    559

    where is BOBO - the anti glutamine warrior????
  11. Gate Keeper
    jminis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    MOD island
    Posts
    4,023
    Rep Power
    2186

    I think the new GEE has it's benefits as Bio stated. I've used L Glut and never noticed a thing from it and I refused to triple the dose as the price was high enough. Nice studies though LMD
  12. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    I think the new GEE has it's benefits as Bio stated. I've used L Glut and never noticed a thing from it and I refused to triple the dose as the price was high enough. Nice studies though LMD
    I think it is better if used during caloric deficits or with hGH. There is an article I posted in the GH forum about how hGH decreases glutamine levels to what the study calls "dangerous levels"
  13. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,913
    Rep Power
    7016

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    As the study suggets, glutamine levels were an indicator of overtraining. Therefore, it is safe to say that raising glutamine levels could prevent this quite a bit, mainly be decreasing recovery time. The study also points out that you can compound this overtraining stress. Glutamine ingestion post workout would be very beneficial in this respect. The second study indicates the usefulness, again, of glutamine in that it increases glycogen storage post workout.


    The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining.

    Glutamine is an amino acid essential for many important homeostatic functions and for the optimal functioning of a number of tissues in the body, particularly the immune system and the gut. However, during various catabolic states, such as infection, surgery, trauma and acidosis, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress, and glutamine reserves, particularly in the skeletal muscle, are depleted. With regard to glutamine metabolism, exercise stress may be viewed in a similar light to other catabolic stresses. Plasma glutamine responses to both prolonged and high intensity exercise are characterised by increased levels during exercise followed by significant decreases during the post-exercise recovery period, with several hours of recovery required for restoration of pre-exercise levels, depending on the intensity and duration of exercise. If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. Athletes suffering from the overtraining syndrome (OTS) appear to maintain low plasma glutamine levels for months or years. All these observations have important implications for organ functions in these athletes, particularly with regard to the gut and the cells of the immune system, which may be adversely affected. In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state.



    Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise

    The purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy of glutamine in promoting whole body carbohydrate storage and muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Postabsorptive subjects completed a glycogen-depleting exercise protocol, then consumed 330 ml of one of three drinks, 18.5% (wt/vol) glucose polymer solution, 8 g glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution, or 8 g glutamine in 330 ml placebo, and also received a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]glucose for 2 h. Plasma glutamine concentration was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks (0.7-1.1 mM, P < 0.05). In the second hour of recovery, whole body nonoxidative glucose disposal was increased by 25% after consumption of glutamine in addition to the glucose polymer (4.48 &#177; 0.61 vs. 3.59 &#177; 0.18 mmol/kg, P < 0.05). Oral glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an extent similar to oral glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site being the liver.

    1. First study just states plasma glutamine which is completely different then the effects of oral glutamine since 80% is destroyed in the gut, not to mention its extremely insulinogenic.

    2. Glutamine promoted storage in the liver. How does this help protein synthesis? As for restoring muscle glycogen is was the same as oral glucose. Why? Its very insulinogenic.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...et/twitter.png http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...t/facebook.png

    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  14. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,913
    Rep Power
    7016

    Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers.

    Boza JJ, Dangin M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Jarret A, Pouteau E, Gremaud G, Oguey-Araymon S, Courtois D, Woupeyi A, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

    Nestle Research Center, Vers-Chez-Les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland.

    The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein ((15)N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-(13)C]glutamine (3 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) and L-[1-(13)C]lysine (1.5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from (15)N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-(15)N(2)]glutamine and L-[2-(15)N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 +/- 5.0% and 66.7 +/- 3.9% after administration of (15)N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 +/- 11.9% and 34.9 +/- 10.6% for (15)N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.



    Just drink whey.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...et/twitter.png http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...t/facebook.png

    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  15. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,913
    Rep Power
    7016

    Another.


    Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans.

    Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE.

    Departments of Medicine and Chemistry, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405, USA.

    [1,2-(13)C(2)]glutamine and [ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine were infused for 7 h into five postabsorptive healthy subjects on two occasions. On one occasion, the tracers were infused intravenously for 3.5 h and then by a nasogastric tube for 3.5 h. The order of infusion was reversed on the other occasion. From the plasma tracer enrichment measurements at plateau during the intravenous and nasogastric infusion periods, we determined that 27 +/- 2% of the enterally delivered phenylalanine and 64 +/- 2% of the glutamine were removed on the first pass by the splanchnic bed. Glutamine flux was 303 +/- 8 micromol. kg(-1). h(-1). Of the enterally delivered [(13)C]glutamine tracer, 73 +/- 2% was recovered as exhaled CO(2) compared with 58 +/- 1% of the intravenously infused tracer. The fraction of the enterally delivered tracer that was oxidized specifically on the first pass by the splanchnic bed was 53 +/- 2%, comprising 83% of the total tracer extracted. From the appearance of (13)C in plasma glucose, we estimated that 7 and 10% of the intravenously and nasogastrically infused glutamine tracers, respectively, were converted to glucose. The results for glutamine flux and first-pass extraction were similar to our previously reported values when a [2-(15)N]glutamine tracer [Matthews DE, Morano MA, and Campbell RG, Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 264: E848-E854, 1993] was used. The results of [(13)C]glutamine tracer disposal demonstrate that the major fate of enteral glutamine extraction is for oxidation and that only a minor portion is used for gluconeogenesis.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...et/twitter.png http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...t/facebook.png

    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  16. Board Sponsor
    Board Sponsor
    Apowerz6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Chi-Town !!!
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,108
    Rep Power
    1165

    AHH i knew BOBO the Glutamine hater was going to come...
  17. Doctor Science
    Board Sponsor
    LakeMountD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,253
    Rep Power
    2554

    Well the first study you posted is fine but I wasn't posting my studies to say take massive amounts of Glutamine, but instead to say it would be a good addition to BCAA supplementation, which I have found countless times to be effective, not only in its immunoprotective response but also as far as lean mass/recovery is concerned.

    In that second study it is talking about oxidation of glutamine because they were given only glutamine. Obviously if your only fuel source is that then it is going to burn it.

    I am not voucing for the unbelievable effectiveness of Glutamine here, however, if added to your BCAA or post workout shake, etc. it can be very benefical in my opinion as it specifically states that overtraining syndrome (OTS) is consistent with low glutamine levels. This would say that marked increases in plasma glutamine levels would be beneficial. The same way you would look at say increased SHBG levels are consistent with decreased free test levels, you would want to probably block shbg to raise test levels, that is just an example that I thought of off the top of my head but much of the same.

    Doesn't matter where you get the glutamine from whether it be foods or protein but the addition of it seems beneficial.
  18. Registered User
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Poised on the brink of disaster.
    Posts
    6,372
    Rep Power
    10345

    No glutamine for you! Come back one year!
  19. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,913
    Rep Power
    7016

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Well the first study you posted is fine but I wasn't posting my studies to say take massive amounts of Glutamine, but instead to say it would be a good addition to BCAA supplementation, which I have found countless times to be effective, not only in its immunoprotective response but also as far as lean mass/recovery is concerned.

    In that second study it is talking about oxidation of glutamine because they were given only glutamine. Obviously if your only fuel source is that then it is going to burn it.

    I am not voucing for the unbelievable effectiveness of Glutamine here, however, if added to your BCAA or post workout shake, etc. it can be very benefical in my opinion as it specifically states that overtraining syndrome (OTS) is consistent with low glutamine levels. This would say that marked increases in plasma glutamine levels would be beneficial. The same way you would look at say increased SHBG levels are consistent with decreased free test levels, you would want to probably block shbg to raise test levels, that is just an example that I thought of off the top of my head but much of the same.

    Doesn't matter where you get the glutamine from whether it be foods or protein but the addition of it seems beneficial.
    Lakemount,

    Your glutamine pool makes up 60% of your total amino acid pool and its constantly replenished by other essential amino acids. Its is hardly ever low unless you are in extremely catabolic conditions and your protein intake is low which is a metabolic condition that happens over days, not a 60 minute weight lifting session.


    The first study is talking about PLASMA glutamine which ORAL glutamine has VERY LITTLE impact on. Your glutamine pool is replenished by ESSENTIAL amino acids because glutamine is a NON-ESSENTIAL amino acid. All that study describes is amino acid metabolism something oral glutamine has very little effect on. You are quoting studies without even taking into fact the digestion and the insulinogenic properties of glutamine prevent if from having any effect on your glutamine pool. Its like you are ignoring the fact its a non essential amino acid.

    Adding it to a BCAA mix seems even more pointless because then the need for it it even less which will increase the amount converted to glucose.



    The second study used a tracer Lake. Its similar to a leucine infusion that measure protein absorption.

    "The fraction of the enterally delivered tracer that was oxidized specifically on the first pass by the splanchnic bed was 53 +/- 2%, comprising 83% of the total tracer extracted."


    "Doesn't matter where you get the glutamine from whether it be foods or protein but the addition of it seems beneficial."

    And the study shows that FOODS rich in protein are better than oral ingested glutamine. In other words, its a waste to buy. Your body regulates its amino acid pool and maintain homeostasis whether you don't take enough or take a ****load.

    Its seem you are totally ignoring the fact its a non essential amino acid. Its conditionally essential only in times of extreme stress such as surgery and even then its given as an IV drip.

    Is glutamine beneficial? Of course it is but its something you get plenty of with protein intake alone. Spending money and adding it to a BCAA mixture is pointless.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...et/twitter.png http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...t/facebook.png

    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  20. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,913
    Rep Power
    7016

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    I am not voucing for the unbelievable effectiveness of Glutamine here, however, if added to your BCAA or post workout shake, etc. it can be very benefical in my opinion as it specifically states that overtraining syndrome (OTS) is consistent with low glutamine levels. This would say that marked increases in plasma glutamine levels would be beneficial. The same way you would look at say increased SHBG levels are consistent with decreased free test levels, you would want to probably block shbg to raise test levels, that is just an example that I thought of off the top of my head but much of the same.
    Increased plasma glutamine levels is achieved by eating. Its that simple.

    The hormone reference is comparing apples to a steak. Its that different.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...et/twitter.png http://anabolicminds.com/forum/image...t/facebook.png

    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  21. Registered User
    moflika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    nomad
    Age
    29
    Posts
    78
    Rep Power
    148

    Damn, I was about to bust out my old bucket of Glutamine....looks like that thing is staying in the closet now.
  22. Board Supporter
    Rage (SoCal)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,930
    Rep Power
    1076

    This got my nipples hard. Thanks for the representation of information, gents.
  23. Really Really Good Looking
    Giantz11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    512
    Rep Power
    370

    Bobo is my all-time anti-glutamine hero!
  24. Registered User
    BodyImage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    104

    Great insight! thanks
  25. Registered User
    Jayhawkk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    12,791
    Rep Power
    11678

    So...Oats and whey and creatine are still good right? So far I think I that part down.
  26. Snuggle Club™ mascot
    bpmartyr's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    At the buffet
    Age
    41
    Posts
    4,448
    Rep Power
    27397

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    So...Oats and whey and creatine are still good right? So far I think I that part down.


    Now try to take these profound elocute erudiotions to your local gym rat and get: or or or perhaps my least favorite .....

    I love this place.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
  27. Registered User
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,017
    Rep Power
    33557

    I took glutamine powder and never noticed anything. and i followed the exact specific steps (designed by ast-ss) on taking glutamine and i didnt gain anything off of it.
  28. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    I have never "gained" anything off of it other than feeling a little more recovered the next day and having my intestine heal up fast if they were cranky.

    The GEE "seems" to speed recovery even more, however this is a hard thing to gauage.
  29. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    rpen22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,702
    Rep Power
    11091

    Has anyone had any experience or know much about this magnesium glycyl glutamine chelate?
  30. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    I hated it. It tastes like hell and if you take more than say 5-10 grams at a time, you run the risk of instant diarrhea. It's likely due to the magnesium which is a great mineral to supplement with, but I'll stick with mag asporotate.

    I did not notice anything special(beyond the sides) from it.
  31. Registered User
    solonjk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    37
    Rep Power
    105

    I have been so severely into overtraining state, for more than 4 months. 4 months of resting and resting and still no improvement.

    Symptoms include fatigue, heavy - dead legs, restlessness, breathing and cardiac rhythm abnormalities incoordination in movement, nausea and headaches, low back pain, overall sickness feeling, increased metabolism and hunger, loss of strength and sensation in arms and hands and several other weird feelings.

    I have been taking glutamine for the last week or so, really cant tell any difference. I drink 5 or more grams a day with milk or juice. Hope i start to show some improvement soon.
    Yesterday i went swimming for like 10 minutes. My breathing rate and mood were ok (thats a good sign-its long since i took a deap breath and didnt feel nauseous) , but when i came out of the pool my legs felt dead once again (not sore, just heavy and very unwilling to get off the ground and move). I guess glutamine didnt work that good afterall. Maybe i should take a bigger supplemental dose.

    Is anyone familiar with this feeling of heavy - dead legs for so long? I read somewhere its due to microheamorhages or multiple micro ruptures within the muscles. ****, i need help
  32. Registered User
    neoborn's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Planet Secksi Baby Yeah!
    Posts
    4,409
    Rep Power
    2360

    Quote Originally Posted by solonjk View Post
    I have been so severely into overtraining state, for more than 4 months. 4 months of resting and resting and still no improvement.

    Symptoms include fatigue, heavy - dead legs, restlessness, breathing and cardiac rhythm abnormalities incoordination in movement, nausea and headaches, low back pain, overall sickness feeling, increased metabolism and hunger, loss of strength and sensation in arms and hands and several other weird feelings.

    I have been taking glutamine for the last week or so, really cant tell any difference. I drink 5 or more grams a day with milk or juice. Hope i start to show some improvement soon.
    Yesterday i went swimming for like 10 minutes. My breathing rate and mood were ok (thats a good sign-its long since i took a deap breath and didnt feel nauseous) , but when i came out of the pool my legs felt dead once again (not sore, just heavy and very unwilling to get off the ground and move). I guess glutamine didnt work that good afterall. Maybe i should take a bigger supplemental dose.

    Is anyone familiar with this feeling of heavy - dead legs for so long? I read somewhere its due to microheamorhages or multiple micro ruptures within the muscles. ****, i need help
    I think you summed it up right there.
  33. Registered User
    solonjk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    37
    Rep Power
    105

    You think increasing the dose will make an impact on my situation? How much should i be taking?
  34. Gold Member
    TeamSavage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,007
    Rep Power
    600

    If you have been resting for four months and there's still no improvement, then it's not overtraining. It's something else. You should get a full blood workup done and see a doctor.

    Glutamine is not going to help. Even if it was overtraining, glutamine is not going to help. Read the earlier posts by Bobo in this thread.
  35. Registered User
    jonny21's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    46
    Posts
    2,254
    Rep Power
    3913

    Quote Originally Posted by solonjk View Post
    Symptoms include fatigue, heavy - dead legs, restlessness, breathing and cardiac rhythm abnormalities incoordination in movement, nausea and headaches, low back pain, overall sickness feeling, increased metabolism and hunger, loss of strength and sensation in arms and hands and several other weird feelings.

    ...i need help
    Go to a doctor. Glutamine will not solve your problems. Your symptoms sound more like those of myeloma than overtraining.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
  36. Registered User
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Poised on the brink of disaster.
    Posts
    6,372
    Rep Power
    10345

    Exclamation


    Quote Originally Posted by solonjk View Post
    I have been so severely into overtraining state, for more than 4 months. 4 months of resting and resting and still no improvement.

    Symptoms include fatigue, heavy - dead legs, restlessness, breathing and cardiac rhythm abnormalities incoordination in movement, nausea and headaches, low back pain, overall sickness feeling, increased metabolism and hunger, loss of strength and sensation in arms and hands and several other weird feelings.

    I have been taking glutamine for the last week or so, really cant tell any difference. I drink 5 or more grams a day with milk or juice. Hope i start to show some improvement soon.
    Yesterday i went swimming for like 10 minutes. My breathing rate and mood were ok (thats a good sign-its long since i took a deap breath and didnt feel nauseous) , but when i came out of the pool my legs felt dead once again (not sore, just heavy and very unwilling to get off the ground and move). I guess glutamine didnt work that good afterall. Maybe i should take a bigger supplemental dose.

    Is anyone familiar with this feeling of heavy - dead legs for so long? I read somewhere its due to microheamorhages or multiple micro ruptures within the muscles. ****, i need help
    Call your doctor.
  37. Registered User
    solonjk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    37
    Rep Power
    105

    Thats what i think its too long to be just overtraining. Yet 3 times within the course of those 4 months i was feeling somewhat better for like 3-4 days or so, so i went back to doing some light exercise and staying late out night and syndromes reappeared.
    What doctor, ive been to 17 doctors and 3 hospitals by now. Did all types of tests, including brain MRIs, whole body CTscans, loads of blood tests and so on.

    Late in the course of my problems i started to think about finasteride effects on my hormones, since both testo and free testo are way decreased but yet, i doubt it can cause me the neurological manifestations i ve been having. And these are typicall of overtraining, like breathing and cardiac arrythmias and increased metabolic rate.

    I talked to a couple of water polo and swimming coaches last week and they told me it can take more than a year to recover especially if i have been overtrained in the past again. Last year it took me 6 weeks of bed rest to recover

    Dont know what to say, read my whole story maybe you can suggest something different to check out

    Overtraining Syndrome, Finasteride Complication?

    And some links about overtraining

    Bodybuilding.com - Tammy Thomas - What You Don't Know About Overtraining - Part 1!
    FIT - News & Events
    John Berardi - Overtraining - Part 1
    http://www.frot.co.nz/dietnet/sports/overtraining.htm
  38. Registered User
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Poised on the brink of disaster.
    Posts
    6,372
    Rep Power
    10345

    Call your doctor. Rule out the more serious possibilities before self-diagnosing.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Anti-E's during cycle to prevent gyno? Very sensitive to it...
    By BoneCrusher70 in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-29-2007, 08:09 PM
  2. Folic Acid May Prevent Progression to Laryngeal Cancer
    By yeahright in forum Supplements
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-21-2006, 03:23 PM
  3. Amino acid prevents muscle breakdown
    By yeahright in forum News and Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-25-2006, 04:44 PM
  4. Very Important Points to Remember
    By farmer in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-14-2004, 10:42 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-16-2003, 02:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in