Yet another Diet check, please critique

[J_MAN]

I'm gonna get this started tomorrow see how it goes and adjust accordingly. My routine is a 4 day split ~1hr each (w/ partner). Been doing cardio 3 days 35-40min, going to try to up to 4 days. That's my only activity right now really other than going to and from class and doing homework. (exciting huh?)

24yrs old
6' 0 ft
210 lbs
probably 20%ish not sure

Let me know what you think

Meal 1-
3 egg whites
4oz ground turkey
1/2c oats
1/2c skim milk
1 banana

Meal 2- (pre-W/O)
1/2c Oats
1 scoop whey
1/2c skim milk

Meal 3-(PWO)
2 scoop whey
1c Oats
1c Skim milk
1 apple

Meal 4-
1 6oz can tuna
2 slices whole wheat bread
1/2 Tbsp flax mayo
1c brocolli or green beans

Meal 5-
6oz Chicken Breast
1c brown rice
1c brocolli or grean beans

Meal 6-
1c non-fat cottage cheese
4oz salmon


2831 cal = Protien 290g carbs 285g Fat 61
43/37/20

... and I take 3g fishoil at meal one and 3g at meal six

I'm debating whether I need more Cals or not, it depends whether my activity is classified moderate or high. Let me know what you think I should change/remove/add. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks fellas

 

[LakeMountD]

If your ultimate goal is weightloss first off I would cut some of the fat. Your calorie intake looks okay but I would put a little more into protein and a little less into fat. I know this is hard given the type of foods that are out there but it also depends on your level of commitment. If you are VERY commited than take definitely follow the suggestions but ultimately you are going to have to determine how commited you want to be.

What type of supplements are you going to be taking if any? There are a lot of good supplements out there to help aid you in what you want to accomplish so please respond and let me know what type of supplements you are on or willing to take.

As for the diet I would cut one of the meals out. Although eating more meals does help stimulate metabolism, caused by increased leptin and T3 output, you still don't want to exceed the old calories in vs. calories out rule, which doesn't have much weight these days but in certain cases still applies. I would cut out meal 6 and add the cottage cheese in somewhere else and probably use that salmon filet as a substitute for one of your other meats somewhere in your diet so you don't get too bored with your diet day to die. Also, with the salmon, be sure NOT to eat the skin since it is the main area for the fat that is in salmon.

Secondly I noticed you are eating whole wheat bread. Although this a "healthy" choice it probably isn't the best choice when it comes to quality carbohydrates that will help you lose weight. The main reason wheat is recommended as much as it is, is because of its higher levels of antioxidents present. It is still roughly a 70 on the glycemic index (depending on brand) and most companies today are using unbleached enriched wheat flour to create wheat bread and it is a very poor choice. Instead you can switch to something such as pumpernickel, oat bran, or even rye bread which these are more along the lines of 42-56 on the glycemic index and cause less of an insulin spike than its wheat counterparts. Don't forget there is a difference between wheat and whole wheat as well.

Be careful to crank up the carbs too late at night as well. Although a nighttime meal with caseinate proteins and a little fat might be recommended for bulking I wouldn't recommend it here for your weightloss plan. It does help keep your body anabolic throughout the night but I am not sure if that would outweigh the calories that you would be burning towards the end of the night and while you sleep where your growth hormone and testosterone outputs are at a higher level.

As for the brown rice there are MANY variants. I have read through the glycemic index quite extensively and the best choice of brands would be Uncle Ben's Brown Parboiled rice (make sure is parboiled). You can add in pasta here as well since whole wheat pasta variants have roughly a 35 glycemic index score as opposed to roughly a 45-50 GI score that brown rice has. Barilla has the best choice in pasta, omega-3 pasta, not only is it the best for you but it tastes and cooks much better than the wheat pasta I used to buy.

Dump the bannana in meal 1 as well, don't bump up those carbs too much at any one meal.

The optimal fat burning would be ~60-65% of your max heartrate not exceding probably 45 minutes or so. I wouldn't do too much cardio on workout days since a primary goal here is to keep cortisol to the most minimal amount. Max heart rate = 220-your age. Any higher on the percentages and you begin to burn more muscle that are working so hard to keep. I am definitely a fan of a 4-5 day workout plan when wanting to stay lean so you have that right there, resistance training is optimal for weightloss in my opinion since anerobic workouts stimulate fat loss the most.

Hope this helps.

 

[bpmartyr]

Overall it looks pretty good but really depends on your goals.I have to disagree on the fat intake. 20% is a great ratio but I find it hard to come up with 61 grams from those meals. More like 40ish by my eye. I like to use a little more unsaturated fats like olive oil even when cutting due to the positive health benefits. Keep in mind that everyone is different and what is optimal for some may not be for all. The best thing is to track your diet and results as you make changes and tweak accordingly. IMO

I would recommend dumping the flax mayo for mustard as the vinegar is a good nutrient partitioner and adds zero calories. Flax is way over rated IMO. I'll throw a link from another post explaining why.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/41637-flaxseed.html#post479421

I also like more fruits & veggies for some of my carbs. They are low GI and high in nutrients and fiber. I do blueberries in my morning protein shake. They have a GI of like 13 and the added benefit of an anti-inflammitory as well.

 

[Ubiquitous]

nice, bump Bpmartyr. Agreed.

And might I add another wrench.

I dice up by cycling carbs through a modified ketogenic diet.. similar to Body Opus by Dan Duchaine, minus the total glycogen depletion workouts. It works for me.. I don't supercomensate during my carb ups either. This is ONLY when dieting and trying to preserve LBM.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The ratios look good. Overall cals are pretty good, although I'd say start at about 3000kcal at your size.

my only concern would be your sources of fat. the only fat I see you getting is from flax mayo, i don't know where the rest of your fat is coming from... Personally, I getm ost of my fat in two periods. usually morning and bedtime, but that's me. And, my bedtime meal is fat and protein only (but I rarely eat to cut, i love junk )

 

[J_MAN]

Thanks so much guys let me try to answer these, I dont have a whole lot of time so hopefully I make sense.

LakeMountD-
how much fat do you think I should cut?
As far as commitment level, I'm extremely commited at this point, I've tried alot of different things before, and would be working out for a year or so then fall off (usually due to school) than start over. I'm sick of it and now at a point in my life where I dont see anything screwing this up anymore. I've NEVER been lean before, I was always the fat kid, thats my body type, so I REALLY want to see some real definition. So I'm doing what I usually dont do and starting at ground zero, diet. If I'm commited to eat brocolli twice a day you better believe I'm ready to do whatever.

Supplements, instead of getting crazy I'm just taking basics till I get my diet right:
Multi- morning and PWO
Vit C 1g- Morning and PWO
Vit E 400- morning and PWO
B-complex- Morning
ALA- Morning and PWO
CEE- 3g PWO 3g before bed (but I'm still trying to figure out if this stuff is any good it was about a year old my friend had)
Fish oil- 3g morning 3g before bed

I've done ECA,ECY random other fatloss supps blah blah blah... before, My Rats have done Clen as well and still have a ton... and I'm probably willing to try whatever will work, after I get my diet in order.

So cut out the salmon? and move the cottage cheese, so only 5 meals? should I replace the salmon because thats like 200 cal, which is the only reason I added at the end I didn't feel I had enough. you think that will be ok?\

So which bread would be best?...as long as its not rye, I can't stomach that crap.

-"Be careful to crank up the carbs too late at night as well.." just wanted to clear up what you are saying in this paragraph I think you may have mis-typed something.

-move the banana? or just get rid of it?



bpmartyr-
I'll refigure the fat intake on fitday later, sorry dont have time at the moment. I guess its mostly from the mayo, the meats, and then the random 1 or 2g you get in other stuff. I tried to modify most of the fitday nutrients with what was actually on the label, maybe I screwed something up.

- I tried to read alot on flax vs fishoil and though I probably can't explain it as well as you I agree. Thats why I take fish oil caps, but the flax mayo I just have because its better than using regular mayo. Dumping the mayo loses even more cals, which I was struggling to add more, you think that would be ok?

- I'm at 2 fruits and 2 cups green veggies... what would you suggest to add?

Ubiquitous -
I might try that at some point, as I feel as though my body likes to store up my carbs. But I also can't say I've really tried this hard to get my ratios right either. But either way I'd definitley have to read up alot more on cycling, you have any good links?

Kwyckemyndoo-

-Same thing I said to bpmartyr, I'll have to try to figure it out, the fat intake.


Thanks so much guys I really appreciate the help, sorry its so long. Hope I made sense, gotta get my butt to class now. LATER

 

[LakeMountD]

Okay let me correct some things here. That fat intake is okay as far as the ratio is concerned (maybe cut to 15% only if some of the food changes don't work), the main reason I had said it in the first place is because from first look it didn't look like you were getting quality fats. As long as the fats are mostly EFA's and VERY little saturated than you should be just fine. I am still going to say take one of the meals out as well. It just seems to me that for you to get 6 meals per day you would have to be eating one of those meals very close to bedtime and although that would be optimal for muscle building if you are saying how you were always the fat kid and really want to get lean I think we can sacrifice some muscle gains here to shed that fat for now, at least until you get down to where you want to be.

I still say dump that bannana in the beginning lol. I would try to keep carb intake at around 40-55g carbs per meal max except maybe post workout. Remember the optimal goal here is weight loss not gain. There are roughly 4 calories/gram in carbs AND protein so you can always sacrifice some carbs here in there for more protein and still end up with same caloric intake. It might also be beneficial to make a non workout and a workout day diet. The workout day could have like 285g carbs and the non workout day more like 215 or something along these lines. I am basically throwing a lot of ideas out here because no one diet works for everyone, it takes a lot of experimentation to get your specific diet down pat. Try a few of these things out though.

As for the supplements be sure not to take B vitamins before a workout since it generally causes burning of glycogen over fat during a workout. ALCAR helped me quite a bit as well. I would take it with one of my fattier meals and it generally seemed to help prevent the retention as well as giving me more focus and a better sense of well being. Clen can be a great idea if you get your dosages down right, if you say you have a lot left you could always give that a try. Sometimes doing a clen cycle followed by like a week break then into like an anarchy stack or ECA type cycle works really well for some people.

 

[J_MAN]

Ok I checked it and there was some stuff screwed up thanks for noticing guys. Some extra portions and fitday adds fat to wierd stuff those threw the fat off. So I fixed and double checked the facts and added fats. Here's what I did so far, tell me what you think.

Meal 1-
3 egg whites
4oz ground turkey
1/2c oats
1/2c skim milk
4g fish oil

Meal 2- (preWO)
1 scoop whey
1/2c oats
1/2c skim milk

Meal 3- (PWO)
2 scoops whey
1c oats
1c skim milk
1 apple
1c non fat cottage cheese

Meal 4-
1 6oz can tuna
2 slices whole wheat bread (until I get something better)
1/2 tbsp flax mayo + some mustard
1c broccolli or green beans
4oz ground turkey

Meal 5-
8oz chicken
1c brown rice
1c broccolli or green beans
1/2 tbsp olive oil

Meal 6-
1 6oz can tuna
4g fish oil


2781 Cal 307/252/58 46/34/20

The cals are a little lower. The fat should be about right now and theres good fats. I added more portien, dropped the carbs some, this is more of the ratio I was shooting for.

I kept the flax mayo for the fats, its only 1g saturated.

Like I wrote there I'm gonna keep using the wheat bread until I go find something else.

I took your advice and moved the cottage cheese, but I put 1 can of tuna for meal 6. Because if I only have 5 meals I'd be done eating at about 6:00. This way I can just throw down a can of tuna at about 8 or 830, and I'm in bed by 1130 or 12. I didn't want to go that long without eating. Does that sound about right?

And as for my routine/cardio. I lift 4 days (mon,tue,thur,fri) and cardio 3 days (wed,sat,sun). and I was thinking of adding another cardio to after my workout on fri, so that would be the only day I do both.

Thanks again for the input guys. Please give me any advice you think will help, I need it. adios

 

[LakeMountD]

Looks much much better bro. Try it out and see how it works. If it stops working I would DEF. drop to 5 meals. Everyone is different so lets try this and see where it goes.

 

[BOHICA]

Ok I checked it and there was some stuff screwed up thanks for noticing guys. Some extra portions and fitday adds fat to wierd stuff those threw the fat off. So I fixed and double checked the facts and added fats. Here's what I did so far, tell me what you think.

Meal 1-
3 egg whites
4oz ground turkey
1/2c oats
1/2c skim milk
4g fish oil

Meal 2- (preWO)
1 scoop whey
1/2c oats
1/2c skim milk

Meal 3- (PWO)
2 scoops whey
1c oats
1c skim milk
1 apple
1c non fat cottage cheese

Meal 4-
1 6oz can tuna
2 slices whole wheat bread (until I get something better)
1/2 tbsp flax mayo + some mustard
1c broccolli or green beans
4oz ground turkey

Meal 5-
8oz chicken
1c brown rice
1c broccolli or green beans
1/2 tbsp olive oil

Meal 6-
1 6oz can tuna
4g fish oil


2781 Cal 307/252/58 46/34/20

The cals are a little lower. The fat should be about right now and theres good fats. I added more portien, dropped the carbs some, this is more of the ratio I was shooting for.

I kept the flax mayo for the fats, its only 1g saturated.

Like I wrote there I'm gonna keep using the wheat bread until I go find something else.

I took your advice and moved the cottage cheese, but I put 1 can of tuna for meal 6. Because if I only have 5 meals I'd be done eating at about 6:00. This way I can just throw down a can of tuna at about 8 or 830, and I'm in bed by 1130 or 12. I didn't want to go that long without eating. Does that sound about right?

And as for my routine/cardio. I lift 4 days (mon,tue,thur,fri) and cardio 3 days (wed,sat,sun). and I was thinking of adding another cardio to after my workout on fri, so that would be the only day I do both.

Thanks again for the input guys. Please give me any advice you think will help, I need it. adios

Cutting or bulking, I think you need more protein. The bodies basic PTOR protein turn over ratio is like Weight x 1.818 which would put you around 380ish.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

If there is one thing I'll probably never live by again, it is the uber-high protein rule. I'd digest something that will give me the 'energy' needed to recover and repair as well as maintain optimal hormone levels so that my body functiosn properly.

Protein is important, but I think healthy fat intake, overall calorie intake, and sufficient carbs are more important than simply eating lots of protein.

 

[BOHICA]

If there is one thing I'll probably never live by again, it is the uber-high protein rule. I'd digest something that will give me the 'energy' needed to recover and repair as well as maintain optimal hormone levels so that my body functiosn properly.

Protein is important, but I think healthy fat intake, overall calorie intake, and sufficient carbs are more important than simply eating lots of protein.

I don't really consider 380 high especially for someone over 200 lbs.

 

[J_MAN]

I always thought 1.8-2x body weight was more important to bulk. And cutting you're ok at 1.5x, which I'm only 8g shy of right now. This correct thinking?


And how bout my Fat intake critiques? Does it seem ok now? Thanks for pointing that out I was going to be way off on my count before.


Lake Thanks again for all the help, and I'll check back in awhile and let you know how its going. One more question, If/when I do need to drop to 5 meals what time do you think my last meal should be? Given that I'm in bed by 11:30-12:00.

Again any input is greatly appreciated. Gotta go eat.
later

-J

 

[BOHICA]

Lake Thanks again for all the help, and I'll check back in awhile land et you know how its going. One more question, If/when I do need to drop to 5 meals what time do you think my last meal should be? Given that I'm in bed by 11:30-12:00.
-J

I wouldn't drop to 5 meals just because you wouldn't be feeding your body all the times it needs to be fed. I would instead just lower the ratios in all the other meals to drop some calories when/if that time is needed.

 

[LakeMountD]

I always thought 1.8-2x body weight was more important to bulk. And cutting you're ok at 1.5x, which I'm only 8g shy of right now. This correct thinking?


And how bout my Fat intake critiques? Does it seem ok now? Thanks for pointing that out I was going to be way off on my count before.


Lake Thanks again for all the help, and I'll check back in awhile and let you know how its going. One more question, If/when I do need to drop to 5 meals what time do you think my last meal should be? Given that I'm in bed by 11:30-12:00.

Again any input is greatly appreciated. Gotta go eat.
later

-J

Honestly just depends when you start eating. If you get a late start it might change. 3 hours apart is a good start for meals but it can be 2-3 hours depending. I would prolly make it like 2-3 hours before bed

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I don't really consider 380 high especially for someone over 200 lbs.

its not that high, but I don't see any reason to go any higher than that, honestly.