- 03-26-2006, 07:44 PM
So I started out last year at 323lbs at probably 35% body fat, not attractive. I am now a year later 279-284 (fluxuating), at roughly 24% body fat (last checked 3 weeks ago). I have been stuck at this weight for 8 months. I lost the bulk of my weight in 2-3 months and I have been converting to muscle, but i still have 24% body fat and i wanna get it down, soon! It seems that I cant shake this platuea. I would eventually like to be 235 at 13-15% bf. Would it be out of the question to stop lifting for a while and do intense and light cardio with a good diet. I would lose some muscle and a lot of fat, but i could retain that with a good diet.
My cardio would be 3-4 times a week (cycling before breakfast) roughly 10am then eliptical later at night (8pm). I would like to lose 25-30 lbs by May. Most of you will think im crazy, but keep in mind i am not at 10-12% body fat and i am an extreme endomorph. Once i get down eventually to 245lbs i will lift and get back up to around 255 then cut down to around 225 and bulk back up to 235 at around my desired weight by august.
Thanks for helping.
- 03-26-2006, 07:54 PM
What exactly is your lifting/cardio routine and your diet? If you have hit a extended plateau, then you may need to make tweeks to your diet.
03-26-2006, 10:11 PM
I have posted my diet previously...
i believe i was at a 60/30/10
i cant go too high in carbs or fat because my body stores it.
my thyroid is a little low and whenever i lift my body responds by producing a lot of muscle and fat to support it.
Im gonna cut the lifting out for a while (month) and do about 30 minutes of intense spinning 3-4 times a week pre-breakfast
then on those days later in the evening i will do 30-45 minutes of light treadmill or eliptical.
Im going to eat clean, keep the calories around 2500-3000.
And make sure to get plenty of rest.
03-26-2006, 10:19 PM
Try adding some sort of HIIT. This will help with metabolism boosting and nutrient repartitiong more than any other form of exercise.
Also on the supplement side of things, try MP or Sesamin.
03-26-2006, 10:23 PM
I would not recommend that. If anything some low to moderate intensity cardio. Spinning ain't that.Originally Posted by Socrates44
Save the spinning for later on. This works well for me: I usually spin for an hour and break it up as follows: for every 10 minutes @ 3 cliks down (cadence ~80rpm), I do 5 minutes @ highest resistance standing up. You wind up doing 40minutes straight away and 20 minutes uphill.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-26-2006, 10:25 PM
personally, I think that's a very bad idea. You may think that your body makes a lot of fat to go along with you muscle but I bet that something is wrong with your diet.
And why in the world would you want to cut out an activity that burns a bunch of cals anyways.
I want to see your diet! And no I'm not digging for it.
03-26-2006, 11:42 PM
Like hte othes have said, I wouldn't cut out lifting. Very bad idea. I ran into a similar spot that you are and found out that the problem lies within my diet. Post your diet and you can probably tune things up.
03-27-2006, 12:15 AM
Diet numbers aren't anything bro. I could tell you I was getting a particular ratio of macronutrients and only 2500 calories per day but if it were coming from McDonalds it means nothing. Try posting up the exact foods you are eating and I will help critique where you could possibly going wrong. There are a lot of tips that can help you lose this weight and I will help you to the fullest extent of my knowledge if you help get me some of this info.Originally Posted by Socrates44
I can understand where you are coming from with the lifting standpoint but you have to remember something. As you said you are an extreme endo. Along with this comes with low thyroid output (most of which is T3, which you want) as well as low overall androgen output such as testosterone. Cardio and aerobic work has been shown to actual decrease the levels of natural androgens in your blood and in this case would be counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish. Anaerobic workouts, however, such as heavier lifting and High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) are shown to have effects inverse to that of aerobic training, with increased hormonal response in both androgens as well as thyroid output (metabolism). If you aren't going to lift, which I don't recommend, I would at least get out there and do some hardcore interval sprints. You may say that you are too "big" to be doing sprints but I played football for FSU and I can say that we have 340 lb. fat asses running 4.95 40's so I am sure you can get out there and do it.
Plus by adding in the extra muscle that you would be getting by lifting weights you will also be helping to shed the extra fat since muscle tends to lead to an increase in calories burned as well. The more muscle, the more calories that are going to be burned during intense activity. Make sure that when you lift that you are lifting a good amount of weight. There are two types of muscle fibers as you might know or have heard, Type I and Type II a, b, and c. Type I are your red, endurance fibers, these fibers do you know good as they are "programmed" to last longer under stress and are basically more efficient at burning less calories during long durations, as opposed to your Type II muscle fibers that make up your strength/speed fibers. These fibers are the best for muscle growth and also are much more powerful and during heavy resistance training can help shed the weight you want to shed.
Let me know if you have any other questions, hope this helped a lil bit.
03-27-2006, 02:51 AM
This is my only problem i have been doing the diet and have been for a while, it just doesnt work. I have switched it up. I wait 30 minutes to eat after morning cardio (to make the lipolysis and gluconeogenesis last longer). By doing that i am forcing my body to eat the stored fat. My type of body does not respond well to intense cardio (sprints, suicides and high paced indian runs). I used to be a full-back at 300lbs running 4.9s, that is a thing of the past. I am in no way a slob or sedentary in any way. The spinning i am doing is not a normal class it is just me and a couple of my buddies thats do intervals (10 min - 80rev), (3min-150 revs high tension) and we do that for 3 sets.
I used to powerlift a lot so i have a lot of the White Fiber, (Fast Glycolytic), i have very little red (slow oxidative) fibers.
Meal one (30 min after morning cardio)
-2 cups oats
-1/2 cup cottage cheese
-40 grams protein shake
-spinach green salad
-1 chicken breast
-1/4 cup of almonds
-1/2 sweet potato
Meal three (pre workout)
-can of tuna
-cup of rice
Meal four (post workout)
-40 gram protein shake
-6 oz lean steak or other meat
-1/2 cup of rice
-cup of skim milk
Meal six (before bed)
-1 cup of cottage cheese
The majority of my weight is in my spare tire. I have very little fat on my arms or legs and just a little bit on my upper back.
The majority of my mass is fast glycolytic fiber...this presents a problem for intense cardio. Fast glycolytic means i need mass amounts of energy for them to go aerobic, let alone anaerobic. Once i start going hypoxic I cramp up and cant continue. I have already lost 50 lbs roughly, doing something similar to what i recently have planned.
I play basketball a lot and that is about as far as i really wanna push my joints. Being a catcher for 12 years, a line man and fullback for 4 years and powerlifting has taken a nice toll on my joints.
Basically to lose weight (fat and muscle) i have to go against the cardinal rule on this website...I have to cut out food and i have to cut down weight training. Basically i started this forum to see if anyone else has had this problem. I literally have no T3 which is not helping my conversion to the usable T4. I have gynecomastia due to heigtened estrogen. Basically i have a mans body, a mans build and a womans hormones.
This has always befuddled me because i am very strong, so my doctor actually took tests and found out that the results of heightened testosterone actually led to my body producing excess estrogen. I later found out in anatomy that this is supposed to happen and that i have to just take it in stride. Maybe ill get some synthroid and a good aromatase inhibitor.
03-27-2006, 03:15 AM
When things aren't working like they should, see a person who can take care of it for you...look in my signature.Originally Posted by Socrates44
but, from what I can see, your numbers are way screwed up.
If you were 280 @ 25% BF, you could probably cut at over 4000kcal/day. So, you may be malnourished.
60/30/10, thats very low on fat. You may need more to promote proper hormone function. again, you may be malnourished.
PLing doesn't mean you're fast oxidative glycolitic. lol.. just means you PL'd. C hange of fiber type doesn't happen very much with training. If it did, I'd be michael johnson.
intense cardio isn't going to do anything for you. keep it simple. fast oxidative is "fast" for a reason, when heart rate increases, it is required for your body to act quickly and get fast sources of energy (fats aren't fast). in short, keep the cardio slow and steady.
your body will utilize fat more effeciently at certain heart rates. in fact, at rest your body is much more effecient as a 'fat' burner than while doing cardio. So, your goal is to increase your metabolic rate, make sure your hormone function is optimized and have less calories coming in than out so you can preserve lbm while burning fat.
So, in short, my advice to you (not specific) is early morning cardio (low intensity), eat your fat (don't fear it), high fiber, low gi, split up PF and PC meals as often as possible, avoid FC for the most part (just precautionary measure). Make sure you eat your veggies, and eat enough calories...too few can cause problems. macro breakdown (50/30/20)
03-27-2006, 06:13 AM
Actuallly it is the opposite, T4 converts to T3.Originally Posted by Socrates44
So Should I assume you had muscle biopsies to confirm that you have very little slow twitch fibers? FOG tissues respond very well to resistance training. Your logic makes little sense. As stated before, high intensity cardio is not necessary.
Honestly, it sounds like you have taken a few anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry classes and are making false diagnosis and assumptions based on your knowledge learned.
But, to each his own.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-27-2006, 09:45 AM
This is why I told him he should try HIIT. Although the main source of energy at the time is glycogen, HIIT has a MUCH greater effect on metabolic rate throughout the day than does slow cardio. I DO AGREE, however, that he needs slow cardio in there too, preferrably 65% of his Max HR (220-age). The other reason I suggested HIIT is because he said he isn't going to lift. Personally lifting + 65% MAX HR cardio for an hour or so would be optimal.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
I agree he needs to add in some fats too but they def. need to be some damn good fats. I would switch out that "lean" steak you have in there for some chicken or fish (without the skin). Although there are some lean cuts of beef out there, they still hold a very high amount of saturated fats, the opposite of what you want. Try and stick with EFA's.
2 cups of oats in the morning might be a bit much even if you are doing a lot of cardio in the morning, the object is to cut here not to add. Maybe 1 cup oats w/ skim milk, protein, and bannana. I would also cut out that bedtime meal, from training endo's I began to notice that the ones who wanted to cut did not benefit from a bedtime meal, the added weight that they were getting (still quite a bit from fat) was not worth the extra anabolism they were getting from eating before bed, endo's just aren't optimized for it.
Post workout what is in your protein shake? Are you just having a bannana and protein with water? If so you can add in some carbs here. You could actually add in that cup of oats from the morning and the 1/2 cup cottage cheese from the bedtime meal here and it would benefit you. Then spread out 5 meals throughout the day instead of 6. I eat 6 and I am a strong ecto who is lean bulking and I still don't stay unbelievably lean, but I do stay lean.
What kind of rice are you using? Brown parboilied rice is your best bet for the lowest GI value.
Are you using any supplements? I mean if you are really serious about all of this I would look into maybe using caffeine twice a day to help increase your metabolic rate. ZMA before bed would also help bring your natural test. levels up some (and increase your quality of sleep) because I am almost certain you are deficient in those vitamins looking at your diet (heck I probably am too even on my bulk diet). Lean Extreme might be another good supplement to give a shot. I am a big fan of cortisol blockers. I get stressed out easily with school and all the other stuff and I know this added with a lack of sleep really hampers the **** out of my gains. LX helped out quite a bit. Check out the supps forums there are a lot of interesting things to try like Sesamin, etc.
And we are all trying to help you here so after we post help don't post back saying this and that about you know what you are doing and how you already have fast twitch etc., all of the info I have read in here is helpful from the members.
03-27-2006, 01:25 PM
Oh i dont want anyone taking what im saying personally or the wrong way. I am using this site because i love the info from other bodybuilder and lifters. I appreciate everyones info. When i bring up the slow oxidative and fast glycolytic im just using the terms more so to help with info recieved from you guys. I have tried HIIT and i really like it. I have been on it for about 2 weeks now and i feel an increase in energy, however i havent lost any weight.
I really need to up my fats, i understand, it just scares the hell outta me. Im a college student so good food doesnt come by too easily. And as for Johnnys muscle biopsy, yes i have had a biopsy I totally evolved my hamstring in baseball and i had a part close to my buttocks removed for testing. I am assuming most of the fiber in my legs are fast glycolytic, seeing as that is what the lab told me(which means its need to rely on stored energy-glycogen). So by doing cardio in the morning at a high rate helps my body use up that stored energy, force my body to store excess carbohydrates as glycogen and therefore cut down on additional adipose tissue accumulation.
I do appreciate this info here, otherwise i wouldnt be on here. So thanks for everyones help :-)
03-27-2006, 03:47 PM
It is cool. If you aren't going to do the HIIT, I do suggest you lift though unless you could just care less about gaining any muscle whatsoever and instead care more about just dropping overall weight in general. In that case you should just cut back calories a ****load, take a few supps, and keep the cardio high and frequent and it will melt off. Unfortunately it just isn't what I recommend. You might be looking for too much of a short term goal here. Saying you didn't lose any weight after two weeks of HIIT isn't saying much. You should probably do it longer and do it in conjunction with a slower cardio workout as well on other days. Make sure you are getting at least 2 full rest days though.
Try making a diet for non training days too and really cut down the calories on those days.
03-27-2006, 04:44 PM
He's not lifting?
Well, yeah, if he's not lifting HIIT isn't a bad idea. Good catch.
But, if he does lift, HIIT would be redundant.
03-27-2006, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
This is where he was saying that. I told him lifting would be benfecial but if not then do HIIT to try and get a better hormonal profile.Originally Posted by socrates44
03-27-2006, 09:20 PM
Yea not to make things worse i just got my blood test back. My Thyroid levels are a little low, nothing to be worried about.
What the hell
03-28-2006, 12:15 AM
Gotcha....in that case, I'd say lift + cardio, too. Definitely better the better option.Originally Posted by LakeMountD
Intense spinning may help you achieve better cardiovascular conditioning, but I don't think it'll be best for fat loss
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