Protein/fats-Protein/carbs.

[LCSULLA]

I was thumbing through tnation.com and came across a guy named Caveman. And he said he followed the advice of John Berardi (sp?) who advocated that during a cut a persons meals are either protein/fat or protein /carbs, but never all three. What do you guys think?

 

[Mach .78]

I read about this somewhere else and I follow this way of eating. I don't know whether or not nutrient absorbtion is affected by taking in both carbs and fats at once, or if the fat is stored because you are taking in carbs? I remember some guy had his diet laid out where he would eat protein/fat at a certain time of the day. Somebody will come along and elaborate on this because I am curious as well about fine tuning my food intake.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Yeah following this thread as well. I'm always interested in new ways to lean up.

 

[skumster225]

i eat this way as well with nothing scientific to back it up.. interesting thread.. .bump for more input!

 

[GTOman]

I think the main idea is you don't want a situation where you have high amounts of fat and carbs present in the blood stream at the same time.

 

[ssor1005]

I read an article the other day, I cant find it but I have it printed out at home where a personal trainer/nutritionist was presented with a model client who needed to get "ripped." The trainer explains and developed a diet for the model consisting of three very low carb days in a row followed by three high carb days in a row, and one day where he could eat whatever he wanted. He lists examples of meals and how to space them out and such... and had the guy doing cardio 5-6 days a week. In 6 weeks the model got his BF% down about 4% and was very lean. I cannot remember the meals exactly, but they always had fat/protein/carbs in them, the trick was carb manipulation which tricked the body into using fat as fuel.

 

[Mach .78]

I'm going to do what ssor just talked about starting tomorrow. I'll play with this a little. I am getting ready to run something here soon but I'm not going to be carrying any fat into it. I'm an ecto at 198 and about 9% bf. Abs are visible but not defined. Tomorrow is legs and my first low carb day. Anybody have any meal ideas? I'm at about 3300 calories a day right now on Fit day.com I hope I don't pass out from this. Leg days are brutal, and with Big Pete's Blaster sets coming. I may have to re-think this.:think:

 

[jonny21]

I read an article the other day, I cant find it but I have it printed out at home where a personal trainer/nutritionist was presented with a model client who needed to get "ripped." The trainer explains and developed a diet for the model consisting of three very low carb days in a row followed by three high carb days in a row, and one day where he could eat whatever he wanted. He lists examples of meals and how to space them out and such... and had the guy doing cardio 5-6 days a week. In 6 weeks the model got his BF% down about 4% and was very lean. I cannot remember the meals exactly, but they always had fat/protein/carbs in them, the trick was carb manipulation which tricked the body into using fat as fuel.

I am not a big proponent of the CKD diet. That said, if you are going to do it then do it correctly. 3 days of carbing up followed by 3 days of very low carbs does not sound like it will be too efficient at depleting glycogen stores. JMO

 

[ssor1005]

Yeah I think 3 days of low carb is kinda harsh. I found the article at home and here is an example of a low carb day:

Meal 1) 1/2 grapefruit, 6 eggwhites, Vitamin C, 1000 mg, B-complex, Vitamin E 400 mg, multi mineral w/ calcium and magnesium, Alpha Lipoic Acid 500mg, 1 tblspoon flaxseed oil

Meal 2) 1 low carb protein shake at around 300 calories, an example is Lean Body Carb Watchers.

Meal 3) Tuna, white meat chicken, or turkey breast, mixed in a salad with any types of peppers, mushrooms, onions, carrots, celery, cucumbers, etc. DO NOT use tomatoes.
Meal 4) Repeat meal 2

Meal 5) Grilled Fish...ideally salmon, or chicken breast, or turkey breast, and 1 cup of mixed veggies

Meal 6) 1/2 protein shake at 150 cals, Low carb.

Consume 110 ounces of water most of it btwn meals rather than with meals

Also, he talks about using Taraxatone to lose water weight and really lean out, any1 ever use this before?

 

[WannaBeHulk]

ive tried carb cycling for a contest diet but stopped after 3 weeks. carb cycling causes me to waste away but my body responds favorably to clean carbs even in high amounts. personally, i dont believe in the protein + fats or protein + carbs diet. every morning, i have 1 cup of egg whites with 2 whole eggs and a cup of oatmeal. this meal has 15g fat and 60g carbs and nobody can say that this meal will lead to weight gain in the form of fat for active individuals. ill also combine cuts of steak with a large sweet potato which also contains all 3 macros. i would say the most important factor is determining if you are in calorie surplus or deficit. if there is a surplus, all the foods better be clean to serve muscle building purposes as oppose to being stored as fat. that is my opinion on this subject. anyone agree?

 

[Gdawg]

I was thumbing through tnation.com and came across a guy named Caveman. And he said he followed the advice of John Berardi (sp?) who advocated that during a cut a persons meals are either protein/fat or protein /carbs, but never all three. What do you guys think?

I don't believe the body operates this way (i.e. on a meal to meal basis) because of digestion rates. I think the reason it most likely works is because it helps limit the amount of calories you consume at each meal.

On the other hand, I feel that carb cycling on a day to day basis, and not a meal to meal basis, has a lot of merit to it.

 

[ssor1005]

This is kind of on topic, but is it bad to have tooo much protein. For example on a intense and heavy workout day like today for instance where I am in a 100 calorie deficit (small cut,) I consumed 400g protein, i'm 175 lbs.

 

[GTOman]

I read an article the other day, I cant find it but I have it printed out at home where a personal trainer/nutritionist was presented with a model client who needed to get "ripped." The trainer explains and developed a diet for the model consisting of three very low carb days in a row followed by three high carb days in a row, and one day where he could eat whatever he wanted. He lists examples of meals and how to space them out and such... and had the guy doing cardio 5-6 days a week. In 6 weeks the model got his BF% down about 4% and was very lean. I cannot remember the meals exactly, but they always had fat/protein/carbs in them, the trick was carb manipulation which tricked the body into using fat as fuel.

Tom Venuto goes into great detail on how to make this work in his e-book 'Burn The Fat Feed The Muscle' althogh he says not to go below 1g/lbm on the low carb days. Good read. He also has a 12 week log for one of his contests on his website, I thought it was pretty interesting http://www.bodybuildingsecrets.com/articles/nutrition/pre_contest_diet_changes_12_weeks_out_tightening_things_up.php

Just thought I'd share that as I thought his book was a great read and he seems to be a quality guy who, like Bobo does not use many supplements, just diet and hard work.

 

[ktw]

ive tried carb cycling for a contest diet but stopped after 3 weeks. carb cycling causes me to waste away but my body responds favorably to clean carbs even in high amounts. personally, i dont believe in the protein + fats or protein + carbs diet. every morning, i have 1 cup of egg whites with 2 whole eggs and a cup of oatmeal. this meal has 15g fat and 60g carbs and nobody can say that this meal will lead to weight gain in the form of fat for active individuals. ill also combine cuts of steak with a large sweet potato which also contains all 3 macros. i would say the most important factor is determining if you are in calorie surplus or deficit. if there is a surplus, all the foods better be clean to serve muscle building purposes as oppose to being stored as fat. that is my opinion on this subject. anyone agree?

I definately agree with this. I've nitpicked before and tried the Berardi method and found it not only to be a pain in the ass, but to not have any advantages over just watching my macro levels and total intake levels. Carb cycling seems to work for a lot of people while cutting, but I noticed a dip in strength while doing this, which is unacceptable to me, so I just decreased my overall carb intake by a slight portion, changed when I ate what carbs during the day (starches only around workout, no carbs 4 hours before bed, etc.), jacked my protein intake up and made sure i was at a deficit and this worked much better and my strength stayed consistant. I also slightly increased cardio. I guess it all depends on your personal priorities. Also, how could someone say that Bobo has only used a diet to get results, when in other forums he talks about using Anadrol and other anabolic compounds?

 

[LCSULLA]

I definately agree with this. I've nitpicked before and tried the Berardi method and found it not only to be a pain in the ass, but to not have any advantages over just watching my macro levels and total intake levels. Carb cycling seems to work for a lot of people while cutting, but I noticed a dip in strength while doing this, which is unacceptable to me, so I just decreased my overall carb intake by a slight portion, changed when I ate what carbs during the day (starches only around workout, no carbs 4 hours before bed, etc.), jacked my protein intake up and made sure i was at a deficit and this worked much better and my strength stayed consistant. I also slightly increased cardio. I guess it all depends on your personal priorities. Also, how could someone say that Bobo has only used a diet to get results, when in other forums he talks about using Anadrol and other anabolic compounds?

Yeah. I am the same way. Low carb (less the 50g) just kills everything ie: lifting, sleeping, and just about everything else. When I keep the carbs between 100-150 I seem to feel a lot better and work out much harder.

As for Bobo I think that he starts many clients off clean and after X amount of weeks if they want to start adding supps (or anything else) then thats their desicion.

 

[CROWLER]

If I am on EC stack, I have no problem with VERY low carbs consisting of just 2 small salads and 3 apples for the day. I actually feel good with low/no carbs even from day 1.

Fat loss is amazing and if I keep the protein HIGH along with my other sups I see no/VERY little muscle loss. Strength is affected until I carb up again but it comes right back.


CROWLER

 

[ktw]

no i meant he himself. 150 would be too low for me almost. if i dip around 200-250 i notice a huge difference in energy, strength, etc.