Ephedrine -- Hmmm...Good or Not?

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    Ephedrine -- Hmmm...Good or Not?


    I was in my local nutrition store today picking up some more Milk Thistle, when I decided to just take a peek at what fat loss supps they carried.


    I ran across : Vasopro Ephedrine.


    Ingredients: Ephedrine Hydrochloride 25mg
    Guaifenesin 200mg



    I never really got into using any ephedra when it was actually legal, which brings me here to ask some questions-


    How effect is this stuff, why is it legal, and what does the Guaifenesin do?


    Also, if I were to purchase it what would be good dosing, right now im looking to cut fat and build muscle.

    Im on a PP/Prostan cycle, the prostan doesnt start for another 2 weeks. Im at 10mg pp ed moving up to 20 starting monday. Im lifting light and doing 30mins cardio a day- I am also eating less and clean Today i felt super lethargic, probably from the pp, less caloric intake, and very hard workingout/cardio.


    Is this version of the ephedra simply going to give me more energy or will it aid me more in my metabolism and fat loss? Is it viable to take during this current cycle?



    Thnx for any help you can provide!~~

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    I love the stuff when cutting. It helps me with fat lose and it kills my appetite. Start with 1 tablet and see how it goes.


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    This is the supplement that many used after the ban of ephedra b/c it contains the active ingredient. It will help w/ energy and fat loss. The guaifinesin is an expotorent that is used to help expel mucus from the lungs. The reason these are combined is ephedrin helps w/ asthma by opening bronchial tubes and the guaifinesin will help to break up the phlegm in the bronchial tubes.
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    Im sorry, and i dont mean to be a ****, but you probably should have researched a little more about the products you are taking. These products are pretty much beneficial during a caloric surplus. If you wanted to cut you should have just done an EC(A) stack. Your not gonna gain any muscle on your PP/prostan stack unless your diet is in check and your getting enough calories, and from what you wrote, it doesnt appear that you are.

    You should just gain as much mass as you can, eat at least maintence and probably more, and then try and cut after you have completed your PCT. With your newfound mass from you cycle, it will be easier to cut than before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idunk42
    Im sorry, and i dont mean to be a ****, but you probably should have researched a little more about the products you are taking. These products are pretty much beneficial during a caloric surplus. If you wanted to cut you should have just done an EC(A) stack. Your not gonna gain any muscle on your PP/prostan stack unless your diet is in check and your getting enough calories, and from what you wrote, it doesnt appear that you are.

    You should just gain as much mass as you can, eat at least maintence and probably more, and then try and cut after you have completed your PCT. With your newfound mass from you cycle, it will be easier to cut than before.
    So you are saying a recomp would not be good using PP? esp since ephedrine will help in the bloat,(diuretic) and I was assuming he was going to run it with a caffiene supp? Phera would do him quite nice as a cutter esp with prostan...

    And cutting on PCT is the worse thing to do!!! potent cutter would be C2 with eph.25 3 times a day trust me you will be shredded just keep your bp in check with coq10 and hawthorne...
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    I HAD all the mass I want. I lost alot of over this past year or so. Im trying to gain some lean muscle back and cut extra fat. (But im still am more than content with the mass I have. Thats all I used to do was pound the protein and cals(around 3k+), lift heavy, and get big.)


    Ive heard many good things about cutting with PP. And obviously ProStan ISNT a mass builder, and will help solidify my gains as well as suck the water out of me


    Ive already lost 6 pounds this week and a half, as well as gained more strength, and i look better already. I think im doing allright

    I chose to do this because PP is a clean dry compound that will help me if not gain a little muscle back(especially with muscle memory), but at least maintain it. And ProStans helpfullness with my goals can go unsaid.


    Also, with this ephedra, thats exactly what im doing, researching it before i buy it.



    Thnx for all the input so far, im liking what i hear~
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    I said that he should cut once he has completed his PCT, not during. Yeah I agree that the ephedrine would help with the bloat caused by the PP, but wouldnt these two be bad for BP?? Im not saying that it shouldnt be done or it wont work, but I just think that prohormones are more ideal to bulk. I tried doing a cut on SD, and it turned out to be a bad idea. Im not saying that its a bad idea for everyone, but just in my experience that it can be very difficult and just seems to be a waste of product.
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    [quote=kasket]I HAD all the mass I want. I lost alot of over this past year or so. Im trying to gain some lean muscle back and cut extra fat. (But im still am more than content with the mass I have. Thats all I used to do was pound the protein and cals(around 3k+), lift heavy, and get big.)
    [quote]

    If this is the case, I would look into albuterol the next time you do a cut. It will be cheaper than the PP/prostan stack and its effects are very similar to clen without the side effects. I used it for 2 weeks and it cut me up nicely.
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    Ive got hawthorne berry that ive been using to help keep BP levels in check~


    As for cutting on SD, well I dont believe SD is the best thing to cut on, it seems to be a big mass builder compound-PP seems like a bit more suttle compound that can and does definetly help during cutting.


    Regaurdless im thankful for any input
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    Yeah, I hear ya. I definitely agree with you there. Good luck with the cut and I hope you meet your goals man!
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    Curious, how essential would it be for me to throw in a caffein supp?

    I didnt plan on purchasing any, I know it can be very benefficial while cutting though (pre workout empty stohmach etc.)-


    Let me know how important this can be
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    thats the synergy of it, eph by its self is ok, but throw in caffiene its wonderful!!!
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    hmmm ok


    now lets see


    does a company like now foods or someone sell caffein simply by itself, because now that ive got the ephedra i dont want to spend 60 dollars on some hyped fat burner just to get the caffein i need.

    ty
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    Caffine is like $10 or something. I am sure one of the board sponsors sell it.

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    ya i checked some out, can get it as low as 5.99 but i dont feel like ordering online some imma check out my local nutrition store
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    Wow!!!
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    I run an ECY stack and I get all of my stuff online, it is much cheaper.
    Vasopro on its own is ok, but stack it in an ECA or as I prefer an ECY and you can bounce off the walls.
    It gives me more energy and power in my workouts as well as supresses my apetite.
    Don't take anything without doing some research on it, if you have heart or blood pressure problems, it may not be worth the risk.
    Start on a low dose to begin with, it takes a few days to get used to and you may sweat like a pig
    As with any chemical, it will have some positive and some negative effects, make sure you are willing to take both.
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    As karate girl mentioned ECY is an option. Keep in mind that this is not for beginners or lightweights. The combination of E and Y can put someone into a serious anxiety attack as well as heart palpitations. ECY is very effective as it targets fat at different/multiple receptors.
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    Information of interest:
    Information courtesy of Par Deus

    One of the major contributors to body weight homeostasis in the human body is the sympathetic nervous system, the principal components of which are the catecholamines (epinephrine and norepinephrine) and the andrenergic receptors. There are two types of adrenergic receptors, alpha and beta, as well as subtypes of each -- and depending on which are activated, lipolysis (breakdown of fat) can be either stimulated or inhibited.



    The most well-known adrenoreceptors to bodybuilders are the beta receptors. These can be divided into subtypes 1, 2, and 3 -- and it is through these receptors that drugs such as the ephedrine/caffeine stack and Clenbuterol exert their effects. While Clenbuterol acts directly on beta 2 receptors, ephedrine exerts its effects indirectly by stimulating the release of norepinephrine (NE), the body's primary endogenous thermogenic hormone. Unlike Clenbuterol, NE is not selective in its binding. In addition to binding to the beta 2 receptor, it also binds to both alpha receptors, as well as the beta 1 and 3 receptors. It is in regards to its binding to the alpha 2 receptor that yohimbine comes into play.


    Norepinephrine and Yohimbine

    Ativation of the alpha 2 receptor inhibits the release of NE. Thus, by binding to this receptor, NE functions as its own negative feedback signal. In other words, it shuts off its own release. Obviously, this is not a good thing for fat loss. This is particularly true at rest (which, unless you are a marathon runner is 95% of your day) -- this is because alpha 2 receptors are activated at lower catecholamine levels than are the beta receptors (1). Thus, thermogenesis is basically always turned off. It is the differences in regional distribution of alpha 2 and the beta receptors that is responsible for the gender differences in bodyfat storage (2). Basically, females have a large number of alpha 2 receptors and few beta receptors in the gluteofemoral area (hips, thighs, and butt), while men have the same problem in the midsection. With exercise or the use of compounds such as the ephedrine/caffeine stack, catecholamine levels can be increased to a point where the alpha 2 induced inhibition of lipolysis is partially overcome (1). However, even then, the alpha 2 receptors ARE still acting to reduce lipolysis. Yohimbine is a selective alpha 2 antagonist (3) and can thus short circuit this feedback loop, maximizing NE levels, thus maximizing fat loss, particularly in these problem areas.


    Blood Flow

    A second, more indirect, mechanism by which Yohimbine can aid lipolysis via the adrenergic system is by increasing peripheral blood flow (4, 5). Adipose tissue is known to have rather poor vascularity. When triglycerides are broken down into free fatty acids and glycerol during lipolysis, they must also be transported away from the fat cell or they risk being reincorporated into adipose tissue. Beta receptor activation causes vasodilation, thus increasing blood flow, however, it does not increase enough to remove all of the free fatty acids released during lipolysis (6). Alpha 1 and 2 receptor activation, on the other hand, causes a decrease in blood flow (2, 7). Thus, antagonism of the alpha 2 receptor with yohimbine would be expected to increase blood flow, and thus increase the mobilization and disposal of these FFA's, further aiding fat loss.


    Yohimbine vs. yohimbe

    Quite a bit of confusion seems to exist about the difference between Yohimbine and yohimbe. Yohimbine is the principal alkaloid from the herb P. yohimbe. However, there are 31 other yohimbane alkaloids that can be present in herbal yohimbe preparations. Some of these have different and unknown selectivities and potencies (and thus, effects) at the adrenergic receptors (8, 9) -- in addition, these preparations vary greatly from brand to brand and even from batch to batch, as no standardization for extraction exists. In fact, a recent investigation found that most over the counter preparations have little to no actual yohimbine (10). And, even in the more potent preparations, most people find a higher degree of undesirable effects with the herb vs. pure Yohimbine (due to the afore mentioned 31 other yohimbane alkaloids that can be present).

    Dosing

    Studies have concluded that the ideal dosing for Yohimbine is .2mg/kg (11) -- this would be 20mg for a 220lb person (0.09 mg/lb of body weight). Studies using smaller dosages have produced less favorable results. At this level, little to no side effects have been reported (Keep in mind, this is with Yohimbine HCl, not the yohimbe herb). Another thing to be considered when using yohimbine is that insulin completely blunts its lipolytic effects, thus it should ideally be used on a low-carb/ketogenic diet, or at the very least, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, followed by moderate aerobic activity for an extended period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idunk42
    I said that he should cut once he has completed his PCT, not during. Yeah I agree that the ephedrine would help with the bloat caused by the PP, but wouldnt these two be bad for BP?? Im not saying that it shouldnt be done or it wont work, but I just think that prohormones are more ideal to bulk. I tried doing a cut on SD, and it turned out to be a bad idea. Im not saying that its a bad idea for everyone, but just in my experience that it can be very difficult and just seems to be a waste of product.
    Cutting on Sd would probably be a bad idea for anyone, being that it cause Hypoglycemia, so a lot of carbs are needed with it. As for PS just being good for bulking, of course you know that there are ones that can be used during cutting for great results, and there are the ones that are the mass monsters. So it depends on the hormone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    As karate girl mentioned ECY is an option. Keep in mind that this is not for beginners or lightweights. The combination of E and Y can put someone into a serious anxiety attack as well as heart palpitations. ECY is very effective as it targets fat at different/multiple receptors.
    Would you recommend ECY or EC with clen/T3?

    Or actually if a person can tolerate any of these what combo have you tried you might recommned.

    Thanks


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    I am just about ready to switch to an ECY. I abuse E and I believe that I get receptor burnout, creating a diminished return. Also, with my fat distribution, the last to go is my ass and hips. The ECY seems to target those more effectively. When I switch over to ECY it seems to re-accelerate the fat loss...in the trouble areas. There is a antagonist/agonist feedback thing that seems to make the ECY more productive when you get down to the nitty gritty of fat loss. I am not very well versed on the biomechanics of these matters but I will research some more for the literature that I have seen to support this strategy.

    EDIT: Actually Par's writeup covers the issue with alpha 1 and 2, and beta 1 and 2 receptor agonist/antagonist feedback.

    I've not used clen, but am presently using T3. Will see how things work for me.
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    Sounds good thanks.

    I may try the Y. How much do you take and where do you get yours if I may ask.


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    I usually go with 25mg E/5mg Y/200mg C 3 to 4x's day depending upon the length of my day and tolerance.

    NP is where I will be picking up.
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    Thanks I do the E and C the same as you so I will get some Y.

    Will it make me ripped by next weekend?


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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    Thanks I do the E and C the same as you so I will get some Y.

    Will it make me ripped by next weekend?


    CROWLER
    YEP! Should be ripped by next weekend...J/K! No, but this is a really good stack. I like using this combination as well, just like B5150 stated. I used to use EC way too much, and this combination does get it going again. I remember some of the best cuts i did were back when Vpx had that Nor ephedrine, yohimbine, caffeine, and synephidren stack, but man that stuff was like liquid crack or something, was way too stimulating sometimes, and messed with heart rate. What ever happend to nor ephedrine, I know it got pulled a long time ago, but that stuff was the bomb!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasket
    I was in my local nutrition store today picking up some more Milk Thistle, when I decided to just take a peek at what fat loss supps they carried.


    I ran across : Vasopro Ephedrine.


    Ingredients: Ephedrine Hydrochloride 25mg
    Guaifenesin 200mg



    I never really got into using any ephedra when it was actually legal, which brings me here to ask some questions-


    How effect is this stuff, why is it legal, and what does the Guaifenesin do?


    Also, if I were to purchase it what would be good dosing, right now im looking to cut fat and build muscle.

    Im on a PP/Prostan cycle, the prostan doesnt start for another 2 weeks. Im at 10mg pp ed moving up to 20 starting monday. Im lifting light and doing 30mins cardio a day- I am also eating less and clean Today i felt super lethargic, probably from the pp, less caloric intake, and very hard workingout/cardio.


    Is this version of the ephedra simply going to give me more energy or will it aid me more in my metabolism and fat loss? Is it viable to take during this current cycle?



    Thnx for any help you can provide!~~

    Stacking the vaspro with lipo6 would be a great combo for fatloss. Great energy and appetite suppression.
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    Hmm allright, been doing my research even though I had basic knowledge from over the years.


    Im going to simply do an EC stack, because im low on cash and dont want to be super strung out. (I felt like I was on speed when I took stacker 2 a year ago or so, so i want to see how just this goes.)

    Im eating clean, less, working out hard, doing cardio, taking a solid cycle of PP and Prostan, 25mg E and 200mg C post workout empty stohmach, all the lipid protection/pct i need, tons of water all the staples (multi vit, protein)....etc...


    hopefully this turns out to be a good cut for me im feeling it will.


    ~thnx for all the input



    Oh, and if ur interested in my log, u can check it out in the cycles section. i just updated my diet section a little
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    I want to say first of all you can buy ephedra the ban was temp lifted so buy as much as you can . First of all eca stacks were the **** politics killed ECA because a person could spend $20 bucks and lose more than they could payiny $200 bucks to there Dr. If they had no scripts gettin filled how are these drug comp. going to contribute to there fav Sen.
    Ephedra first off is a bronchodilator ( helps you breath ) what better to help you work out. Second burns fat ( oh that sucks) . Third keeps you up all day at full speed, so at night you crash ( which is good bc it puts you in deep sleep. And I dont know about you but I go through alot of sleepless nights. Something about the better shape Im in my body feels it needs less rest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtysouthmuscl
    Ephedra first off is a bronchodilator ( helps you breath ) what better to help you work out.
    I believe that you mean Ephedrine
    Second burns fat ( oh that sucks) .
    yes in a caloric defecit and good diet it may contribute to increased fat loss.
    Third keeps you up all day at full speed, so at night you crash ( which is good bc it puts you in deep sleep.
    hhhmmmm
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    How often should one take it?

    I took E - 25mg C - 200mg Y - 5mg around 11:30am and its 2:00 when should I take it again?
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    Did you read this part of the thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    As karate girl mentioned ECY is an option. Keep in mind that this is not for beginners or lightweights. The combination of E and Y can put someone into a serious anxiety attack as well as heart palpitations. ECY is very effective as it targets fat at different/multiple receptors.
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    I'd highly recommend using Basic Cuts in place of regular ole C.

    It can be had for $15.

    I think B might agree with me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    Did you read this part of the thread?

    Yes sir I have, I done my research for the past few months. I am concerned and open to alternatives. What if I cycle 1 week with YC and 1 week with EC and so on?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite
    Yes sir I have, I done my research for the past few months. I am concerned and open to alternatives.
    If you had then you would already know that you dose 3x's day at equal intervals. Some more experienced user (abusers) like myself can go as much as 4x's per day. If you have never used this sort of supplementation I suggest stacking an EC or some prestacked product. EC can be some potent stuff for some and ECY is not to be taken lightly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    If you had then you would already know that you dose 3x's day at equal intervals. Some more experienced user (abusers) like myself can go as much as 4x's per day. If you have never used this sort of supplementation I suggest stacking an EC or some prestacked product. EC can be some potent stuff for some and ECY is not to be taken lightly.
    I know you have to take it at 3x intervals each day but is it really necessary to dose Y 3x a day with the EC. Couldn't I just take it once or twice to reduce complications. I was thinking of doing 1 week EC 3x ed and switching to CY 3x ed for 1 week and so forth.
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    There is a synergistic and complementary effect of having E and Y in the stack. As mentioned earlier in the thread there is a negative feedback mechanisim from E and the Y works around that feedback to target other receptors. I don't believe YC will be harmful, but by no means is it going to be as effective as ECY and likely less so than EC. There is a little more to it.
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    I've been monitoring my side effects and mood closely in my journal. Since I started i've been way more active (of course) and in a better mood once I see that drop I will take out Y if necessary.
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    What products other than vaso contain E now that the ban has been lifted? And where can they be bought? In reference to an earlier question about stacking E with clen/T3.. I would have to say don't do it.Regardless of your tolorence of it. Clen has a few weeks of effectiveness and is probably producing as much as your receptors are able to. I think it would be overkill on your body without providing equivelent results not to mention a waste of money. Just my opinion based on my moderate understanding.
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    Well Im not sure what else has E in it anymore, but the Vasopro is sold for 10-19 dollars, and is simply 48 tabs of 25mg of Ephedrine HCL.

    I bought mine at a local nutrition store, like GNC or max muscle.

    It can also be bought on almost any nutrition website, like ********.
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