T3 and T2 stack

[okboy63]

Are there any advantages in stacking T3(cytomel) and a T2 product(diacanna/thyro cuts) ?.
ALRI talks about it a little in BTPB.
Would like to hear some other opinions and if anybody out there has done this.

 

[Grunt76]

BUMP wondering about this also since I saw actual T2 as a research chem

 

[okboy63]

Well I guess this means there is not to many folks stacking these. I guess the advantage would be to be able to use less t3 and thus possibly have less shutdown(i don't know if this is true or not)The question is how to dose.

I found this link on something called wilson syndrome which guages the optimum dose of T3 based on body temp average (3, 6 and 9hrs after waking).
http://www.cnm-inc.com/art_wilsyn.pdf

Here is a theory:
Let's say using this method a person could set a top end dose of t3 at say 75mcg(maybe even lower 50 mcg) and then use T2 to get the average resting temp between 98.2 98.8(keep it slightly high using androgens) during the course of the cycle.
Something like
T3 25 mcg 3 days
T3 50 MCG 3 days Start T2 dosing
T3 75 mcg 14 days Continue T2 doseing based on resting body temp
T3 50 MCG 3 days
T3 25 mcg 3 days

Also there is some guy named mallett on AR who recommends something called a 7/5 split on T3 7 on and 5 off
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=103577&highlight=testing+thyroid+function. Sounds odd.

 

[shaorinor]

As I understand it, and this is from stuff I read a really long time ago, even if you do very small dosages of T3, you will still suffer just as much shutdown as higher dosages...which is why people suggest just going all out and doing a full on cycle.

 

[okboy63]

As I understand it, and this is from stuff I read a really long time ago, even if you do very small dosages of T3, you will still suffer just as much shutdown as higher dosages...which is why people suggest just going all out and doing a full on cycle.

I've heard/read the same thing many times, but if that was truly the case. Why would you need to taper down as lots of people suggest?.
I think your body adjusts everyday to whatever level of hormones it has.
I don't think your body is like a light switch,either on or off. It's making adjustments constantly. My opinion anyway.
I think the level of shutdown is dose dependent. I have even read you could add up to 12.5 mcg of t3 and not suffer much shutdown at all.
Of course a lot of this is just speculation

 

[Grunt76]

I believe there is ample evidence of complete thyroid shutdown @ 25mcg ED within a few days. This is the reason a "new" protocol was thought up, involving 2 days on / 2 days off T3, keeping the gland producing while having large amounts of the hormone in circulation. Anecdotal evidence reports lessened fat rebound upon cessation of supplementation when this method is used, which suggests there is something to it. I'm sure Pubmed has something. Search for TSH, T3 and suppression.

 

[shaorinor]

I would think that the tapering down (if it's even necessary) is more to signal your body of decreasing T3 levels, thus priming it for reproduction of T3 upon cessation.

 

[400runner]

im running t3 right now. i just want to say be careful. the stuff is pretty powerful. my resting heart rate is at 88....WTF. i was taking 75mcg. i went to 50 today. plan on staying there tomorrow and monday and then going to 25mcg's for a few days before i quit.

 

[okboy63]

I believe there is ample evidence of complete thyroid shutdown @ 25mcg ED within a few days. This is the reason a "new" protocol was thought up, involving 2 days on / 2 days off T3, keeping the gland producing while having large amounts of the hormone in circulation. Anecdotal evidence reports lessened fat rebound upon cessation of supplementation when this method is used, which suggests there is something to it. I'm sure Pubmed has something. Search for TSH, T3 and suppression.

The only thing I can find on the 2 days on 2 days off thing is an example from BTPB ,page 189 Franks Contest prep. It also said he sometime used Triacanna on non t3 days(maybe a person could use t2 on non t3 days). I didn't see much explanation about the benefits of it though. I'm very interested on reading up on this if you have any links or anything.

I have found this about TSH suppression and T3
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/6/1432
Ninety per cent suppression occurs rapidly (hours) after a large dose of T3, Suppression of the residual TSH to the undetectable assay range occurs slowly, requiring prolonged (15-25 days) T3 administration. ETc

 

[kjkriston]

im running t3 right now. i just want to say be careful. the stuff is pretty powerful. my resting heart rate is at 88....WTF. i was taking 75mcg. i went to 50 today. plan on staying there tomorrow and monday and then going to 25mcg's for a few days before i quit.

just started my t3 today....howd your cycle go?

 

[milwood]

I believe there is ample evidence of complete thyroid shutdown @ 25mcg ED within a few days. This is the reason a "new" protocol was thought up, involving 2 days on / 2 days off T3, keeping the gland producing while having large amounts of the hormone in circulation. Anecdotal evidence reports lessened fat rebound upon cessation of supplementation when this method is used, which suggests there is something to it. I'm sure Pubmed has something. Search for TSH, T3 and suppression.

definitely interested to hear more on this. Thanks, Grunt.

 

[McBurly]

definitely interested to hear more on this. Thanks, Grunt.

I agree, sounds like an interesting concept

 

[Grunt76]

Actually, after researching more, it seems conclusive that the 2/2 protocol didn't hold up. The half-life of T3 being 36 hours, an optimized protocol was made, by which T3 was dosed to lab animals for 7 days and then 5 days off. The 5 days off allowed the exogenous T3 to completely clear the body, letting the thyroid gland undergo TSH stimulation again for a few days before getting back on.

I feel this is the way to go. I myself will be doing a T3/albuterol soon and this is the way I'll do it. It is asserted by knowledgeable people that T3 upregulates the beta-2 receptors, so there is no problem getting the full results with dosing the albuterol in conjunction with the T3 on the 7on/5off.

Dosages might be something like:

7on: 25mcg T3 / 6mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 50mcg T3 / 9mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 75mcg T3 / 12mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol allowing for sides
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol
5off
...
ETC

If one were to stop there, 35 days out of 60 are spent on albuterol & T3 and 25 days are off. There is alledgedly some good science backing this up as a MUCH safer way of doing things. I plan on adding yohimbine to the above stack, but am still working on wether I should keep it going straight through or cycle it with the rest.

Personally, I'm not taking any chances as I will be doing a thorough thyroid PCT after I'm done these mini-cycles. It will consist of l-tyrosine, guggulsterones, coleus forskohlii and a few other yummies. After all, I do value my pet gorilla's health.

 

[chasec]

ok, you guys actually know what it is your taking, right? t3 is the active metabolite of t2 which is actually just a prohormone. taking t2 isn't as effective as taking t3, since your body will only convert so much t2 into t3. so stacking the 2 together is a complete waste of $.

as for the shutdown, yes it will occur. should you be worried about it? probably.

that being said, i can reference studies showing that people have been on thyroid drugs for years, and once they are taken off their thyroid rebounds within days. taper your doseages and you will be fine.

 

[Grunt76]

I can see the rationale of tapering up, but why taper down?

 

[okboy63]

Actually, after researching more, it seems conclusive that the 2/2 protocol didn't hold up. The half-life of T3 being 36 hours, an optimized protocol was made, by which T3 was dosed to lab animals for 7 days and then 5 days off. The 5 days off allowed the exogenous T3 to completely clear the body, letting the thyroid gland undergo TSH stimulation again for a few days before getting back on.

I feel this is the way to go. I myself will be doing a T3/albuterol soon and this is the way I'll do it. It is asserted by knowledgeable people that T3 upregulates the beta-2 receptors, so there is no problem getting the full results with dosing the albuterol in conjunction with the T3 on the 7on/5off.

Dosages might be something like:

7on: 25mcg T3 / 6mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 50mcg T3 / 9mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 75mcg T3 / 12mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol allowing for sides
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol
5off
...
ETC

If one were to stop there, 35 days out of 60 are spent on albuterol & T3 and 25 days are off. There is alledgedly some good science backing this up as a MUCH safer way of doing things. I plan on adding yohimbine to the above stack, but am still working on wether I should keep it going straight through or cycle it with the rest.

Personally, I'm not taking any chances as I will be doing a thorough thyroid PCT after I'm done these mini-cycles. It will consist of l-tyrosine, guggulsterones, coleus forskohlii and a few other yummies. After all, I do value my pet gorilla's health.

On the 5 days off, will you be taking any other stims?.Would it be a bad idea to run the albutrol on the 5 off?

 

[okboy63]

ok, you guys actually know what it is your taking, right? t3 is the active metabolite of t2 which is actually just a prohormone. taking t2 isn't as effective as taking t3, since your body will only convert so much t2 into t3. so stacking the 2 together is a complete waste of $.

as for the shutdown, yes it will occur. should you be worried about it? probably.

that being said, i can reference studies showing that people have been on thyroid drugs for years, and once they are taken off their thyroid rebounds within days. taper your doseages and you will be fine.

Maybe when ALRI stated taking T2/T3/T4 together is more effective he was talking about armour thyroid.
His statement his why I asked the queston, but if what you say is true then your right ,it would seem a waste

 

[Grunt76]

t2 is active by itself, not in the same tissue as t3, there is some difference in effect but they are both active.

 

[chasec]

t2 has less receptor affinity in humans than t3 does, and it acts via different pathways. but yes, new research has shown that t2 acts directly on mitochondrial respiration while T3 and T4 first have to increase oxidative enzyme levels.

that means that t2 stimulates metabolic rate in around an hour where t3 takes around 24 hours. the only problem is the research that shows this is performed on hypothyroid rats.

it's questionable how effective t2 would be in a person with a functioning thyroid; much less taking 2-3 times the replacement dose of t3.

i still think it's a waste

 

[Grunt76]

Well the one place I know that has it also is the only place I know of that carries IL-15, PGE1, anti-myostatin polyclonal antiboy, combos of tiratricol and phosphaditylcholine and so on and so forth. So? So it looks like some people at the forefront of muscle "research" do need and use T2. :think:

 

[McBurly]

I feel this is the way to go. I myself will be doing a T3/albuterol soon and this is the way I'll do it. It is asserted by knowledgeable people that T3 upregulates the beta-2 receptors, so there is no problem getting the full results with dosing the albuterol in conjunction with the T3 on the 7on/5off.

Dosages might be something like:

7on: 25mcg T3 / 6mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 50mcg T3 / 9mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 75mcg T3 / 12mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol allowing for sides
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol
5off

I'm going to give this a try in a month or so. I'll keep you guys posted on how it works out

 

[trashydiva24]

I am taking T3 and clenbuterol... does albuterol act the same as clenbuterol for fat loss?

 

[Grunt76]

:gotsearch

 

[trashydiva24]

:gotsearch

that's not very nice :wtf: ... i know that they are both used for asthma, but i didn't know that albuterol could be used instead of clenbuterol... is albuterol as bad for the heart as clen?

 

[okboy63]

that's not very nice :wtf: ... i know that they are both used for asthma, but i didn't know that albuterol could be used instead of clenbuterol... is albuterol as bad for the heart as clen?

Here is a link for more info
He just means there is a search button on the top of page that will search the am forums for more info. Avoids redundant question and stuff.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/18559-clenbuterol-vs-albuterol.html?highlight=albutrol

 

[trashydiva24]

Here is a link for more info
He just means there is a search button on the top of page that will search the am forums for more info. Avoids redundant question and stuff.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/18559-clenbuterol-vs-albuterol.html?highlight=albutrol

Thanks!!! as soon as I posted the previous message I read some other posts that helped clear up my questions. After reading the link that you provided I am finally understanding. You rock!

 

[Kris]

Actually, after researching more, it seems conclusive that the 2/2 protocol didn't hold up. The half-life of T3 being 36 hours, an optimized protocol was made, by which T3 was dosed to lab animals for 7 days and then 5 days off. The 5 days off allowed the exogenous T3 to completely clear the body, letting the thyroid gland undergo TSH stimulation again for a few days before getting back on.

I feel this is the way to go. I myself will be doing a T3/albuterol soon and this is the way I'll do it. It is asserted by knowledgeable people that T3 upregulates the beta-2 receptors, so there is no problem getting the full results with dosing the albuterol in conjunction with the T3 on the 7on/5off.

Dosages might be something like:

7on: 25mcg T3 / 6mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 50mcg T3 / 9mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 75mcg T3 / 12mg Albuterol
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol allowing for sides
5off
7on: 100mcg T3 / 16mg Albuterol
5off
...
ETC

If one were to stop there, 35 days out of 60 are spent on albuterol & T3 and 25 days are off. There is alledgedly some good science backing this up as a MUCH safer way of doing things. I plan on adding yohimbine to the above stack, but am still working on wether I should keep it going straight through or cycle it with the rest.

Personally, I'm not taking any chances as I will be doing a thorough thyroid PCT after I'm done these mini-cycles. It will consist of l-tyrosine, guggulsterones, coleus forskohlii and a few other yummies. After all, I do value my pet gorilla's health.

When do you plan (if you still do) on starting this?

 

[Grunt76]

Should be right after my rebound reloaded log, but I haven't yet received the stuff, so think in about a month. I'll be running methoxy-TRN and prostanozol with the above-mentioned protocol.

And I'll only be doing the 25mcg T3/6mg Albuterol for a day or 2 out of the 7 as that will probably amount to a waste of time and product, but is only useful so as to assess tolerance. There might be some clen instead of albuterol on some of these 7-day mini-cycles too, but the general structure will be this.

I'm thinking of adding yohimbine to the stack also.