What is the best portable protein that's real food? - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

What is the best portable protein that's real food?

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    yea

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    Man, what's with the real food hard on when you are putting down ~400g protein/day, you're lucky to get half of that from "real" food. When I'm going to be out of the house all day I make a shake with 9-10 scoops of whey and like 5 cups of fruit juice, and water for consistency... Sipping that over the course of the day does me right.
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    The reason for the real food is that there are additional health benfits from the food that you just don't get from protien powders. Plus real food tastes great And I'm one of those people who don't believe in ultra high protien. I'm not saying it isn't good for some people, or maybe even most people but I've found when I push my protien up over 250 grams a day I tend to put on fat. I do believe that two people can have very different abosrbtion levels of nutritants. It's probably one of those evolution things. But in this day and age with such abundant food supplies it isn't as much of a factor, except that some people will more likely put on fat.

    I'm not sure but exnihilo, I think you and I carry about the same amount of weight and are relatively the same proportions, muscularly speaking of course. So there has to be something that allows both of us to reach that level with very different diets.
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    I lose weight when I push protein over 250g/day if calories are in check, and I feel better than dieting down on a lower protein diet. On a high protein bulking diet, again, I just feel better when dealing with a high workload.

    I remember seeing some research that showed that under very intense training programs nitrogen retention and some other markers for protein utilization didn't hit their peak till around 2.6g/kg or perhaps even more than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Man, what's with the real food hard on when you are putting down ~400g protein/day, you're lucky to get half of that from "real" food. When I'm going to be out of the house all day I make a shake with 9-10 scoops of whey and like 5 cups of fruit juice, and water for consistency... Sipping that over the course of the day does me right.

    Not that hard at all.


    I would be dropping mud all day if I had that much whey.

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    I'd like to see a similar study done but looking at protien absorbed instead of ingested. If I had to make a guess, I would say that absorbtion rates vary between people. Not only for protien but also for calories. Ever notice how two people with weight and ratios may eat very different calories to maintain that weight?

    The best thing to do is experiment with different levels of calories and grams of protien. I might be on the low end, which seems to work for me, and you might be on the high end and that certainly works for you. Currently I'm probably around 200 grams of protien a day and 2500 calories and have put on about 5 pounds and 1/4" on my arms in the last 2 months.
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    Most studies show that anything over 1.5g/kg increased gluconeogensis greatly so the majority over a certain point gets converted into glucose anyway. If you take in large amounts of fast absorbing protein this will increase it further.

    So in essence you are using it, but not for the purposes you think you are (or paid for).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I would be dropping mud all day if I had that much whey.
    That's too much information Bobo! But, I do hear ya on that one.

    I'll take a real food diet over a liquid diet any day. I'll save the liquids when I'm wearing diapers and unable to care for myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Most studies show that anything over 1.5g/kg increased gluconeogensis greatly so the majority over a certain point gets converted into glucose anyway. If you take in large amounts of fast absorbing protein this will increase it further.

    So in essence you are using it, but not for the purposes you think you are (or paid for).
    Sip, sip sip.

    Lyle has a study laying around somewhere that showed, if I recall correctly, that 70% of a protein meal was being used for gluconeogenesis right off the top, when a certain amount of daily protein was being taken in.

    Honestly though, whey is cheap, doesn't cause me gas or any sort of gastric issues, and we've yet to see any studies done on top level competitive athletes with an exhaustive analysis of a multitude of biological markers, besides just simple nitrogen retention. Add in the fact that I physically feel better with an increased protein intake (between 1.25 and 1.5g/lb) and it seems like a no brainer to me. Could be the placebo effect though lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo

    Lyle has a study laying around somewhere that showed, if I recall correctly, that 70% of a protein meal was being used for gluconeogenesis right off the top, when a certain amount of daily protein was being taken in.

    Honestly though, whey is cheap, doesn't cause me gas or any sort of gastric issues, and we've yet to see any studies done on top level competitive athletes with an exhaustive analysis of a multitude of biological markers, besides just simple nitrogen retention. Add in the fact that I physically feel better with an increased protein intake (between 1.25 and 1.5g/lb) and it seems like a no brainer to me. Could be the placebo effect though lol.

    It depends on the meal. Whole foods would convert less. Those studies use liquid solutions for the most part in a depleted state to guage reference points but I wouldn't be surprised if the rate was high.

    Plus when your taking in that much protein the thermic effect of food starts to become a factor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo


    Honestly though, whey is cheap, doesn't cause me gas or any sort of gastric issues, and we've yet to see any studies done on top level competitive athletes with an exhaustive analysis of a multitude of biological markers, besides just simple nitrogen retention.
    There have been many. What are you looking for?

    Plus it doens't really take a study on athletes to understand the breakdown and absortion of nutrients. Normal feeding patterns are the same regardless. THe only exception would be post workout in which there are numerous studies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    There have been many. What are you looking for?

    Plus it doens't really take a study on athletes to understand the breakdown and absortion of nutrients. Normal feeding patterns are the same regardless. THe only exception would be post workout in which there are numerous studies.
    I've read the studies by lemon where they examine nitrogen retention and conclude 1.8g/kg is the optimal amount for an athlete (based on nitrogen retention data), and I've read the pre-post workout stuff by tipton.

    Besides nitrogen retention, creatine kinase levels (post exercise), 3-methylhistidine levels, etc are also useful in examining recovery. Amino acids also serve as the substrate for many enzymes (and indeed are used to form the enzymes themselves) and increased protein intake could theoretically provide some benefit in this regard (much as coq10 and citrate provide some minor benefit to some people).
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    Tipton himself stated his results were inconclusive and even stated that you would have to follow his recommendations for 2 years to have any significant difference (pre post workout nutrition).

    All those criteria listed can easily be found. Like I said, noraml feeding patterns and the hormonal response are almost identical. THe problem with some of those lsited above is they are measured in studies which amino's are administered intravensouly (most notably CK levels). Amino's act as protein catalysts for many function such as bone growth and the conversion of other amino's in glucsoe. These types of reactions happen with low-mod protein intake. There really is no need to increase protein level for those reasons.

    Plus the more postive nitrogen retention is achieved the less protein gets utlized. There is a time when the threshold is reched and after that it either collects in the large intestine to be excreted, stored as fat or converted in glucose.

    If you do the math, 1.8g/kg is not that high. For someone at 240 at 10%bf its only 97kg x 1.8g = 175g of protein.

    The only reason I raise it higher is for the the thermic effect actually mean something. With the RDA recommendations, it doens't do mch at all.
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