Fat Loss Supps, your thoughts and opinions.
- 12-12-2005, 02:53 AM
Fat Loss Supps, your thoughts and opinions.
A couple fat loss sups I've become interested in are Lipo-Ultra, SesaThin, & Phenogen by avant.
I've used Lipo-Ultra in the past with decent results. Other than that, I have no personal experience with the other two products. I've been reading a lot about them; they seem promising.
Does anyone have any experience with these products? If so, what are your thoughts and opinions on them?
Lastly, please feel free to list your favorite fat fighting supps. I'm interested in hearing other stories & experiences as well.
- 12-12-2005, 04:17 PM
I have gone through about 3 bottles of Sesamin/thin in total.
The first bottle I used in conjunction with a moderate diet and exercise program, and experienced above average results.
The second and third bottles, I used as more of an anti-fat gain supplement. Other than working out in the gym for about 45 minutes 3x a week, I actually lost something like .5-.7 lbs./week on this with a very bad diet.
I am currently about to double dose Sesathin for about 4 weeks in conjunction with 6g fish oil spread among the doses. I anticipate this to work very well.
Phenogen I tried, but it exacerbated a medical condition I have (it's complicated) but I wouldn't worry about this, as it's more or less unique to me. As for total feedback, it has been much more successful with the old formula as oppossed to the new one (old has Sesathin, new has GTE), but Avant is currently selling off a few bottles of its old formula, so get it while you can.
Lipo-derm Ultra I tried and didn't see above average results, but I was at a higher bodyfat than is recommended for people to take it (I was ~19% bf at the time)
I also, in conjunction with my double-dose Sesathin, plan on using this again.
12-13-2005, 06:55 PM
I just bought a bottle of ab-solve today. I'm currently at 12.5% but with a decent amount of VAT fat. I'm anxious to give it a shot as I've heard great things.
12-14-2005, 11:37 PM
12-15-2005, 12:04 AM
Currently taking Sesathin/Camp.
Ive lost a couple of kg's in the last 3-4 weeks but attribute this to clean eating and fat burning.
Dropped the MP totally..
12-15-2005, 01:58 AM
No doubt clean eating is 80% of the battle and contributes to the majority of your results. I'm all for clean eating and usually dont start using BF reduction products until BF loses slow to a hualt.
I'd like to ask though, regarding SesaThin & Lipo-Ultra: Since Lipo-U contains SesaThin, can you lower your daily dose of oral SesaThin? Or does it even matter because Lipo-Y works locally not systematicly?
12-15-2005, 02:01 AM
This cAMPH is pretty interesting stuff. Can anyone vouch (from personal experience) that it's all they hype it has been played out to be?Originally Posted by bodysculpt
12-15-2005, 02:59 AM
12-15-2005, 04:54 AM
I'd keep your SesaThin dose the same, because as you said, Lipoderm-U works locally.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
As for why we sell it for 59.99, well, it wouldn't make much sense to undercut our retailers. If we did that, we would sell a whole lot less.
12-18-2005, 01:07 AM
Here is the reaosn behind my posting ...
I've decleared war on my visural fat!! I tend to hold a lot of fat around the mid section and not so much anywhere else. I wanted to use these products to help rid as much fat around my waist as possible (mainly my love handles). I plan to use them after or during my next cycle. I'll also be using var @ 40mg to 60mg ED.
So as far as belly fat and supps, would anyone recommend any other sups to help aid int his fight? I'm sure the three I have mentioned, along with AAS and a strict diet and cardio routine, will be more than enough to reach my goal. Just looking to other hear opinions/experiences.
12-18-2005, 04:23 PM
Wait, if you've got visceral adipose tissue (the kind that pushes your stomach outward from the inside), you're better off going with Ab-Solved. If you've got subcutaneous adipose tissue (the kind that's right underneath your skin that you can pinch), you're better off with Lipoderm-Ultra.
12-18-2005, 08:41 PM
Definitely 95% subcutaneous ... for sure; which is why I got such good results my first time around with Lipo-Ultra. lol, I have a decent 6pak under the fat I've put on since the holiday season kicked in, I just need to bring it out.Originally Posted by Sir Savage
My plan is to cut down naturally to a lower/more comfortable BF% (12% - currently 15% or so). Then jump into a cycle (Tren/Test/EQ/Var maybe some winny somwhere in there too. I'm planning for a length cycle). At the end of this cycle is when I want to impliment the products we've discussed along with Clen and cAMPH. Of course not all together at once, but spread out over the next few months during PCT (which is when I easily gain BF usually). Maybe you guys can help me put together a nice schedule for these compounds and supps. Goal BF% is 8%.
I'm not naturally thin (I'm not fat), but I've always carried a little BF. I gain it very easily. The lowest I've ever gotten it was 10% a few years back. So 8% might be stretching it for me. I know I'll not be able to hold it, but damnit I want it.
12-18-2005, 09:46 PM
If your cycle is a planned recomp/cut, you might read some more on Equipoise.
Most folks report a very large increase in apetite. That might make it difficult to eat clean.
12-18-2005, 10:21 PM
lol, thanks, but I'm good on the EQ. I love the stuff. Its mild sides and slow progressive gains are just what I'm looking for. An appetite increase is what I want. Anavar will destroy any appetite I have anyway, & currently that isnt much.Originally Posted by jmh80
EQ works well for both cutting and bulking, which essentially what I'm doing (body recomp). I cant hink of any other compound that would work better for my cycle. Can you?
Besides, diet will be the biggest factor in my recomp, not the compound I take.
12-18-2005, 10:31 PM
I've read that Kwy say testosterone is a great recomp drug. And everyone seems to like Trenbolone for fat loss. So, why not just test and tren?
Wouldn't want to overdue it...
But, yeah, diet is the most important in a recomp. A recomp can easily turn into a sloppy bulk if one doesn't pay close attention to his diet. (I've done it - ugh!)
12-18-2005, 10:36 PM
Sloppy bulk ... I've done it too. lol.Originally Posted by jmh80
I've also run a few test/tren short cycles and wasnt too impressed with the results. I actually dont respond well to tren; with the exception in hardness. Besides that, I dont really see much from its use. I didnt even want to run it, but after some thought and talking with some guys I've decided it might be help those cuts & vascularity come out.
I'll be running Tren Enan this time (USP grade) not the cattle inplants I used in the past. I'm hoping to see better results this round.
12-18-2005, 10:43 PM
12-20-2005, 02:14 AM
12-20-2005, 02:19 AM
my favorite current stack would be albuterol/melting point, plus ectotropin or IGF-1 if you've got lots of disposable income...
12-20-2005, 02:30 AM
I plan on using clen. What is the difference between the two; clen and albuterol?Originally Posted by milwood
As for the $$, yeah no ... I'm scrapping up & saving every penny at the moment.
12-20-2005, 02:44 AM
Clen can hurt your endurace. Whereas Albuterol really helps it. Also the heart tissue death that comes along with clen is a real kicker.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:09 AM
I'll definitely have to look into this albuterol. You say it doesnt cause heart tissue damage huh? Do we have any studies on it available? I'll do a search. Something definitely worth looking into it seems.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
12-20-2005, 03:17 AM
Yeah lemme look on up real quick. Unfortunately you wont find a study on humans since Clen is made for horses (I believe), but here is one on rats.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
beta2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.
Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.
Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores Univ., Webster St., Liverpool, L3 2ET, United Kingdom. [email protected]
High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist clenbuterol can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known whether this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte-specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections via a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed with annexin V, single-strand DNA labeling, and terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg/kg, with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.05%; P < 0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg/kg. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2%; P < 0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg/kg. Cardiomyocyte apoptosis was detected throughout the ventricles, atria, and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way, from the apex toward the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol, or ICI 118551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that, when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:24 AM
No no - do you have any studies on albuterol and the effects it has/not has on heart tissue. I know Clen cuases damage.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
12-20-2005, 03:29 AM
Salbumtomol is pill form of Albuterol.
Effect of beta1- and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on energy expenditure, substrate oxidation, and UCP3 expression in humans.
Hoeks J, van Baak MA, Hesselink MK, Hul GB, Vidal H, Saris WH, Schrauwen P.
NUTRIM, Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
In humans, beta-adrenergic stimulation increases energy and fat metabolism. In the case of beta1-adrenergic stimulation, it is fueled by an increased lipolysis. We examined the effect of beta2-adrenergic stimulation, with and without a blocker of lipolysis, on thermogenesis and substrate oxidation. Furthermore, the effect of beta1-and beta2-adrenergic stimulation on uncoupling protein 3 (UCP3) mRNA expression was studied. Nine lean males received a 3-h infusion of dobutamine (DOB, beta1) or salbutamol (SAL, beta2). Also, we combined SAL with acipimox to block lipolysis (SAL+ACI). Energy and substrate metabolism were measured continuously, blood was sampled every 30 min, and muscle biopsies were taken before and after infusion. Energy expenditure significantly increased approximately 13% in all conditions. Fat oxidation increased 47 +/- 7% in the DOB group and 19 +/- 7% in the SAL group but remained unchanged in the SAL+ACI condition. Glucose oxidation decreased 40 +/- 9% upon DOB, remained unchanged during SAL, and increased 27 +/- 11% upon SAL+ACI. Plasma free fatty acid (FFA) levels were increased by SAL (57 +/- 11%) and DOB (47 +/- 16%), whereas SAL+ACI caused about fourfold lower FFA levels compared with basal levels. No change in UCP3 was found after DOB or SAL, whereas SAL+ACI downregulated skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA levels 38 +/- 13%. In conclusion, beta2-adrenergic stimulation directly increased energy expenditure independently of plasma FFA levels. Furthermore, this is the first study to demonstrate a downregulation of skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA expression after the lowering of plasma FFA concentrations in humans, despite an increase in energy expenditure upon beta2-adrenergic stimulation.
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:30 AM
Ah... let me find if I can dig one of em up real quick.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:39 AM
Metabolic and electrocardiographic effects of albuterol in pediatric asthmatic patients treated in an emergency room setting.
Del Rio-Navarro B, Gazca-Aguilar A, Quibrera Matienzo JA, Rodriguez Galvan Y, Sienra-Monge JJ.
Neumology and Allergy Department, Hospital Infantil de Mexico Federico Gomez, Mexico.
beta 2 agonists are first election drugs for the treatment of asthma exacerbations. However, rates of complications derived from this asthma therapy like cardiovascular effects have addressed question marks on a possible paradoxical condition, leading to an increased mortality rate. The study was open label, non controlled and aimed to assess the effect of albuterol nebulizations on serum potassium levels, arterial oxygen saturation and electrocardiographic changes in asthma exacerbation in pediatric patients. Albuterol was administered at a dose of 150 mcg/kg/course for 10 minutes in two occasions. Thirty children with mild to moderate asthmatic exacerbation, admitted to emergency room, were included in the study. Bronchodilators administration in the previous 24 hours and history of cardiac or metabolic disease were considered exclusion criteria. Drugs affecting serum potassium were not allowed. Severity of exacerbation was rated by the Wood-Downes criteria. Average sample age was 7.4 +/- 1 years, heart rate increased from 111 +/- 23.23 to 130.0 +/- 22.14 beats/minute, with no clinical significance; serum potassium levels decreased from 4.47 +/- 0.52 to 3.73 +/- 0.49 mEq/L between baseline and final visits, respectively; QTc interval was significantly enlarged from 0.397 to 0.418 milliseconds between initial and final records (p < 0.001), but had no clinical meaning. No arrhythmias were recorded. Pulse oxymetry did not show significant changes (90.6 +/- 3.0% and 92.1 +/- 3.2 at baseline and final visits). The most common reported adverse event was distal tremor, which was present in 80% of the cases. Neither serum potassium decrement nor prolonged QTc after albuterol had clinical significance. Albuterol is a safe drug for the treatment of mild to moderate asthma exacerbations in pediatric patients.
^^This is all I could dig up right now pertinent. Though inhaled, doses are in line with albuterol for Lipolysis. I will try to find more.
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:41 AM
So clen appears to cause tissue famage in the heart as well as slow twitch muscle fiber atrophy. And the study of Albuterol mentioned down regulation of skeletal muscle ... what does that mean? I'm not scientific term savy.
12-20-2005, 03:47 AM
Down regulation of the Beta-2 Receptors. Which was known all along... Basically saying Albuterol (Same as Clen) will lose effectivness over time.. that is why you cycle it.Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM
The Historic PES Legend
12-20-2005, 03:49 AM
No, it also says downregulation of skeletal muscle ... look in your second study post towards the end.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
"Furthermore, this is the first study to demonstrate a downregulation of skeletal muscle UCP3 mRNA expression after the lowering of plasma FFA concentrations in humans."
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