Step By Step Keto Diet Plan!
- 04-09-2003, 05:41 PM
- 04-16-2003, 06:24 PM
I dont see this being feasable for a type I diabetic, type I has to take insulin since the body produces NONE. May be possible if checking BG before every meal but since test strips are around 1.00 per strip that could get real expensive real quick. Also no long acting insulin could be taken so BG could rise in the morning, this is a natural reaction, and therefore you could still be in ketosis but have a high BG which would require you to take insulin which kind of defeats the purpose of the diet. And if you take too much insulin you got to eat some carbs again defeating the purpose of the diet.
If anyone has any ideas on how a typeI could do this diet please let me know, I've researched it and I find no plausible or possible way to succesfully implement the diet but I would like to try. I'm hoping one of the mods could shed some light here. Any ideas??
04-17-2003, 01:59 AM
As a type one diabetic, you are subjective to the potentially fatal state of diabetic ketoacidosis. The lack of insulin in type 1 diabetics further increases the ketone body formation in these types of individuals. While a non-diabetic may product 115-190 grams of ketones per day, type 1 diabetcs have been found to produce up to 400 grams of ketones per day. This increase in ketone formation is coupled with an inability in the type 1 diabetic to use ketones in body tissues. Presumably this occurs because blood glucose is present in adquate amounts making glucose the preferred fuel. Thus there is a situation where ketone body formation is high but ketone body utilization by the body is very low, causing a rapid building up of ketones in the bloodstream. Non-diabetics have a few feedback loops to prevent dangerous levels of ketones building up in the body. With the following risks outlined above and no feedback loops to regulate the amount of ketones produced, I would recommend against a ketogenic based diet.
06-02-2003, 03:37 PM
The CKD is almost the same thing as the Anabolic Diet, except they recommend going 5 days on low carb and having two full days of carbing up with no restraints placed.
Have a question.
"My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss."
You also wrote:
"On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy."
If the goal of the Atkins Diet is to get into ketosis and to stay there throughout your weightloss, how can you have muscle loss if your second statement is true?
You replenish your glycogen levels in 1½ days. I can see that. You will also deplete those very same levels in about 2-3 days. That leaves those last 2½-3 days with no glycogen for energy levels. Where does this energy come from? Your anaerobic work will then be fueled by protein, right (you wrote: we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then)?
While we are on the topic of energy production, why is it that glycogen is the preferred source of energy for anaerobic training? I really want to see your theory. Maybe you could make a separate post and we could discuss it at length?
06-03-2003, 10:14 PM
if you're carb sensitive and want some post-workout carbs then don't use the traditional dextrose/whey combo and just try out 30g of a lower GI/II more complex carb such as sweet potatoe or brown rice The glycogen synthesis will be exactly the same, but it will take a little longer and won't spike insulin. This pretty much defeats half the purpose for taking in p/w carbs though. The little bit of insulin really helps with shuttling aminos and keeping muscle.
06-11-2003, 07:29 PM
About 8 years ago this very topic was discussed on a "newsgroup" kind of board. This was a popular topic and there were a few (3 or 4) Postgrad students doing their masters' degree on the ketogenic Diets.
One of them, named Jeffrey Krabbe, was detailing exactly what was going on in terms of biochemistry on this diet, on each phase. As I remember, the action of a few hormones not mentioned here, namely glucagon and maybe another one, are completely different during ketosis than on a "normal" diet, which made it very obvious that not much glycogen was burned during exercice after the first 3-4 weeks on the diet.
Part of his explanation was that all the enzymes took quite a bit of time to get all activated, but that once they were, protein was spared quite thoroughly and also ALL ENERGY EXPENDED CAME EASILY FROM FAT... In other words, there is NO PROBLEM doing a heavy weights workout or anything while all the carb is depleted.
I kinda wish I could get him on this board and have him drop us a few lines as well as links to any published studies of his, as he was incredibly knowledgeable about this diet and the biochemistry of it. Anyways, I once did 4 weeks straight taking like 3-4 g carbs a day, and my energy levels were still sky-high at the end of that... Around 6%bf... Lifting hard all the time... Gaining in strength and keeping the mass...
06-11-2003, 10:22 PM
Freaking awesome - thats great on only 3-4g of carbs. One question - though. How the heck did you keep your carbs so low, were you eating strictly beef chicken and eggs - no veggies no dressings or sauces of any kind, no insulin spike post-workout? My only problem with the keto diet is that it doesn't take advantage of cell volume and it's growth promoting potential. Taking creatine on a keto diet stinks too. Insulin is sooooo powerful and the keto diet throws it right out the window. I believe that you can get to 6% without going straight keto like that. If you wanted to be 4% then that might be a different story.
06-12-2003, 07:42 PM
Well, actually, my weektime diet was just about only meats, fish, chicken, eggs, and cheese - some heavy cream with my whey. I put mustard on my steak once in a while - brown it in butter and add minced chives... Add mustard while eating - just changes the monotony of always the same taste from eating rib steak all the time.
Taking creatine does stink on CKD. You *DO* take advantage of insulin though, on the weekend. You might want to load up on creatine at that time... You will be able to take in a fair amount. AFAIK if you keep the carbs really low all week, then on the weekend, you can get both a GH spike for these 36 hours or so AND insulin AT THE SAME TIME... It seems the body, if it is kept in a long-term ketogenic state, treats the sudden intake of carbs as a stress and releases GH.
Now, please remember that it takes time to get into this diet. It is very normal to feel weak for the first 2-3 weeks. In those days, me and a bunch of others went "straight keto" as you say for 4 weeks just to make sure of the idea that we didn't NEED *ANY* glycogen for resistance workouts. And did we ever prove it beyond a doubt : EVERYONE was feeling sky-high levels of energy, both in and out of the gym.
OTOH, we all agreed that it takes between 4 and 6 weeks for the full transition to the ketogenic metabolism to occur, IF you keep the carbs to 24-36 hours a week ONLY. Doing anything else, i.e. going above 30g carbs a day makes this a partial transition to the ketosis metabolism but NOT COMPLETE.
By complete, and again I wish Jeffrey was here to explain it, I mean that what happens is that there are quite a few hormonal feedback loops that need to get settled down, enzymes to get activated, etc. And that takes time. I'm not saying you will not lose fat from the 10th day, you will. I'm saying that if you do it correctly, your fat loss will INCREASE gradually from week 1 through week 6, or your food intake will increase and your bf% will remain stable.
One variant that we found popular was to skip the first carb weekend, just to get deeper into ketosis, quicker. If you feel weak during the weektime, for example if you have trouble lifting during your friday workout, you're simply eating too much carbs. Save it for the ice cream and pizza.
06-13-2003, 01:29 PM
another problem I see is that the training suffers for 2-3 weeks during the transition period, won't that sluggish training and minimal energy hinder fat loss and body composition transformation. Wouldn't it be just as easy to cut normal carbs in half and keep training hard for the entire six weeks? I'm not against keto because I've been using a CKD on and off for over a year now. My only problem is that I haven't been consistent enough with it, I go off too soon because I get sick of feeling flat all the time, plus I'm a model and it will always throw off my CKD if I have to look good on a Thursday and it's been 4-5 days since a carb up and I come in looking tired and flat.
If I skip the first weekends carb load do you think the sluggish feelings would pass by the second week? Also dude, I'm really concerned about elevated cortisol leves. I seem to get really flabby obliques and sides every time I really get into the CKD even though the rest of my body gets ripped. It's got to be due to cortisol wanting to store fat in those trouble areas. What do you think?
06-13-2003, 01:48 PM
Firstly, I want to point out that any ketogenic diet is a rather long-term endeavor. If you want something for an 8-week cutting plan, this is probably not for you as yes, the first 2 weeks or so will find you lacking energy. You will get results, but how much better than a dedicated non-ketogenic effort of the same duration? That remains debatable.
About softness in the obliques and sides, that seems a little odd to me. Maybe it's the sodium? Do you eat lots of processed meats on CKD? I don't know about cortisol, but since a lot of bodybuilders use this also in their mass-gaining phases even without AAS or PH, and quite successfully at that, I would venture to say that cortisol doesn't rise on this diet, but someone else certainly will correct me if this is wrong.
One thing I know for sure is that your hGH levels are going to be much higher than normal - unless you are 18 or so - and your fat will tend to AVOID bunching up in certain places and be more equally distributed, not to mention easier to lose. Your skin will be very elastic and so this kind of flabiness that you describe is exactly the contrary of what one would normally experience on this diet... I am at a loss for a cause to this.
02-13-2004, 01:13 AM
I'm still reading more and more into this diet plan. I noticed the last post was back in 2003.
What I would like to know is that with the lack of carbs in a person diet on a keto diet, would this make your thyroid shut down? I read animals article "Animalbolics" it stated that it would.
02-13-2004, 12:53 PM
the thyroid will mostly downregulate if calories get too low. You will need to incorportate some high calorie/high carb refeeds periodically. You can't stay low carb everyday. Your hormones will get jacked up and your muscles will always be flat. Also a high carb day or two can manipulate leptin levels and reduce cravings for the following week.
03-01-2004, 12:28 PM
Six weeks, 25 lbs of total body weight and more like 32 lbs of fat...energy is up, strength is up...only thing down is bodyfat, and EVERYONE keeps commenting on that.
03-04-2004, 05:21 PM
2 months so far on this diet and I initially lost 10 lbs, but have gained back 5. BF has gone down every week, and even got some muscle gain. I am leaning out considerably on this diet. Best diet IMO for loosing fat and gaining muscle at the same time.........yes it can be done.
04-05-2004, 07:04 PM
Would a CKD be beneficial for a female who does low intensity cardio 4x a week? or would they better off doing an 'atkins' type, low carb diet?
04-05-2004, 07:10 PM
04-05-2004, 07:11 PM
04-06-2004, 04:28 PM
It is still good for her, although she will need to carb-up less in terms of quantity, since a typical CKD is built around the idea that one burns up almost all glycogen during the week. Not lifting, she would probably do best to carb-load only 12 hours a week, but this is still WAY better for her than an Atkins-type, which is keto all the way, and which, as someone else pointed out, tends to kill leptin levels...
04-06-2004, 08:01 PM
I have a quick ? Do you have to follow the workout plan or can you do your own thing and still get good results.
04-08-2004, 01:08 AM
04-08-2004, 01:58 PM
Which workout plan? goldylight is right.
That's a nice nick... I'mma go see the pics section - you never know
06-14-2004, 05:19 PM
This diet is where it's at. I followed one very similar to it about 4 years ago and that was easily the best shape I have ever been in. I did it for 3 months while doing a periodization workout from a book called "Big Beyond Belief" by Tom Platz and Leo Costa Jr. You really have to be in the right mindset to not cheat on your carbs during the week. But when you load up on the weekend, damn, you feel so pumped, like someone pupmed helium into your muscles.
If anyone has seen this book, I highly suggest you give the workouts a try, especially if you're plateauing (sp?) right now. My bench alone jumped 50 pounds in 4 weeks. I'm a natty fyi.
The low carbs did not affect my training sessions, energy wise. But if I tried high intensity cardio, such as mountain biking, I was good for short bursts of speed but not much else.
07-01-2004, 09:15 AM
07-01-2004, 09:16 AM
07-01-2004, 09:20 AM
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