slowbulking leaning out thread

[BIGPHILL1984]

Well now that I am no longer cutting weight per se, but like Exnihilo, I am just dropping bf through a cleaner diet, I will start a new thread to chronicle my journey to hopefully get to 280 pounds at 10% bodyfat, which is my ultimate goal. I was thinking about competing in the future, but we will see. I just want to get big now.LOL. I feel like **** when I drop under 240. I really have no idea what my bf is right now, but probably in the mid teens. I am hoping through persistant diet and training as I gain muscle and LBM I will continue to lean out and achieve my goal.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Well I said **** it to waiting for a cycle, I started today with M1T. I will take it for 28 days and follow that with orastan e for 42 days to clean up gains from M1T. I should be getting my test 250 today or tomorrow and will start that on mon. With a monday thurday pinning. I have nolva on hand just in case but all should be well. I felt I was plateauing in weight and strength and did not want to try to break through it for like a month of "maybe" type idea in my head about eventually breaking through it. I am eating well and the sleep should be good, I always sleep well on cycle.

 

[Lean One]

It's not all about what you're taking...

Some info about your diet and cardio will tell more than how much androgens are pumping through your system. Especially with a slow bulking/leaning out log...

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

yeah I know but that is what puts me over the top and out of ruts....I do have a good diet, not perfect, but it is getting pretty good.

6 egg whites, 2 yolks, ww tortilla(trader joes), ketchup, 20 oz. ff milk

protein bar, shake( was out shopping, normally don't eat bars)

6 egg whites, 2 yolks, 2 slices complete protein flourless bread(trader joes), lf cottage cheese, ketchup, 12 oz. ff milk

ground beef, veggies, lf cottage cheese

ground beed, veggies, lf cottage cheese

chicken(skinless), veggies


that is a somewhat normal day. the only differences are whole food meal for my second meal, and have the shake with a banana post workout for meal 4, today was a off day, cuz i was feeling shitty. Other than maybe the ketchup, I really don't see anything wrong. I eat about a 8 servings(FDA) of veggies a day, just in my later meals.

 

[dsl]

yeah I know but that is what puts me over the top and out of ruts....I do have a good diet, not perfect, but it is getting pretty good.

6 egg whites, 2 yolks, ww tortilla(trader joes), ketchup, 20 oz. ff milk

protein bar, shake( was out shopping, normally don't eat bars)

6 egg whites, 2 yolks, 2 slices complete protein flourless bread(trader joes), lf cottage cheese, ketchup, 12 oz. ff milk

ground beef, veggies, lf cottage cheese

ground beed, veggies, lf cottage cheese

chicken(skinless), veggies


that is a somewhat normal day. the only differences are whole food meal for my second meal, and have the shake with a banana post workout for meal 4, today was a off day, cuz i was feeling shitty. Other than maybe the ketchup, I really don't see anything wrong. I eat about a 8 servings(FDA) of veggies a day, just in my later meals.

you don't look like you're taking in very many carbs...eat 'em up

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Whats the macro breakdown on this?

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

I don't know about the carbs but, I hate eating em.

 

[Lean One]

Whats the macro breakdown on this?

Yes. That and how much do you weigh?

Also, carbs are a must in a slow bulk/ leaning out program.

I honestly think you need to get real with yourself and work on diet. The longer you delude yourself into thinking your diet is "pretty good", the longer it willtake to get results.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Ok, what to add then? Oatmeal, have that, whole wheat bread, have that, potatoes, have that......I am 6'4, 242 poounds, at abou 13% not bloated

how about :

meal 1:6 egg whites, 2 yolks, little ketchup, 3/4 cup low fat cottage cheese, 2 slices complete protein sprouted grain bread,

How about having the same thing for meal 2, is that OK

 

[dsl]

Ok, what to add then? Oatmeal, have that, whole wheat bread, have that, potatoes, have that......I am 6'4, 242 poounds, at abou 13% not bloated

how about :

meal 1:6 egg whites, 2 yolks, little ketchup, 3/4 cup low fat cottage cheese, 2 slices complete protein sprouted grain bread,

How about having the same thing for meal 2, is that OK

at your size I would be eating much more carbs...how many carbs are actually in a slice?

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

at your size I would be eating much more carbs...how many carbs are actually in a slice?

15 grams for each slice....The only thing that bugs me is I hate eating carbs. I will eat it with the first couple of meals but after that I really try to eat protein and veggies. I really don't respond well to oatmeal and yams and stuff like that. I drink a lot of milk:

here is a typical day

meal 1 and two same as above post of mine

meal 3 2 cans tuna

meal 4 post workout shake

meal 5 meat, veggies or salad with lf cottage cheese

meal 6: same as 5

 

[dsl]

you are basically doing a low carb diet, I just don't see how you are going to get the results that you are looking for.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

you are basically doing a low carb diet, I just don't see how you are going to get the results that you are looking for.

Well, how bad is low carb?

 

[Lean One]

Well, how bad is low carb?

Do you want to keep your muscle?

Also, Are you doing any cardio? A big mistake that is often made is trying to make up for little or no cardio through dietary means.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Do you want to keep your muscle?

Also, Are you doing any cardio? A big mistake that is often made is trying to make up for little or no cardio through dietary means.

I do 20 minutes cardio daily, I am increasing cals with ff milk

Also, doesn't different things work for different people?

 

[dsl]

I do 20 minutes cardio daily, I am increasing cals with ff milk

Also, doesn't different things work for different people?

I know I'm going to sound like an asshole, but in your case I would say it's more of a cop-out. Just eat some damn bread...lol.

 

[Lean One]

As far as cardio, can you describe intensity and type?

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

As far as cardio, can you describe intensity and type?

I do elliptical, and burn about 320 calories for 20 minute sesssions.

 

[Lean One]

I do elliptical, and burn about 320 calories for 20 minute sesssions.

Listen bro, the calorie counters on those machines are only there to give uneducated people a false sense of achivement. They are not accurate indicators of FAT BURNED.No disrespect, but 20mins likely isn't doing jack for you. also, intensity means heart rate. Did you know that at the propper intensity it actually takes your body 20 mins just to start burning fat eficiently enough to make an impact? You are stopping before you even get started.

 

[CROWLER]

Agree with Lean one.

He knows what he is saying.

Cardio SUCKS, clean carbs SUCK.


That is why everyone doesn't look like a bodybuilder. If you want to lose fat and gain muscle you have to do both IMO and yes that too SUCKS> :thumbsup:



CROWLER

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

OK, I will add some clean complex carbs to each meal now. I am also going to do 1 hour cardio , is that good for a clean bulk? I usually do 10 minutes warmup as well. I guess 1 hour a day will make the gains clean. For my last two meals, could I have the complete protein bread as well? And I will add 1/2 cup oats with my pwo meal. Should I add 1/2 cup oats to pre w/o as well. I am thinking, doesn't the carbs also help the daily fat % of your diet dramatically? Thanks for everything, I will tell you how it goes with the cardio and complex carbs at every meal.

 

[Lean One]

OK, I will add some clean complex carbs to each meal now. I am also going to do 1 hour cardio , is that good for a clean bulk? I usually do 10 minutes warmup as well. I guess 1 hour a day will make the gains clean. For my last two meals, could I have the complete protein bread as well? And I will add 1/2 cup oats with my pwo meal. Should I add 1/2 cup oats to pre w/o as well. I am thinking, doesn't the carbs also help the daily fat % of your diet dramatically? Thanks for everything, I will tell you how it goes with the cardio and complex carbs at every meal.

Good. Make sure your HR is around 130bpm. (give or take a couple bpm) The extra carbs will aid in fat burning. You'll probably feel better too. Definitely keep in touch. You may still need to tweak things depending how you respond.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Good. Make sure your HR is around 130bpm. (give or take a couple bpm) The extra carbs will aid in fat burning. You'll probably feel better too. Definitely keep in touch. You may still need to tweak things depending how you respond.

cool bro here, I added 20 oz ff milk to meals 1 and 2 also to increase cals. I will go with what I said with the other meals. I will add 1 slice of complete protein bread to meals 5 and 6(see how I respond before adding more. I believe right now I am at 4,000 with the added carbs. The cardio should be good. I am usually hufffing pretty good. I also took out the tuna and put in a preworkout shake with oats, ff milk, and whey. About 600 cals for the shake. I have the same one after workout too.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Man the oats did me really good today at the gym. I am ditching the tuna for the pre w/o shakes with oats. Man I did 10 plates on leg press like nothing, and 9 plates on front machine squat 6x. Pretty goo day. I will start morning cardio tomorrow after breakfast instead of before, don't really see andy difference.

 

[dsl]

see, carbs are good for ya

just remember if you want to cut/bulk then don't go overboard w/ adding extra cals

 

[not_big_enuf]

I would actually get a heartbeat monitor and find your anaerobic threshold... from there you can find your fat burning zone. 130 bpm is good for some, but for me, personally, my fat burning zone is actually between 160-170 bpm. it's HIGHLY variable for different people.

just a suggestion. actually learning WHERE you burn the most fat versus guessing would be a HUGE HUGE plus. i can't stress that enough.

Good. Make sure your HR is around 130bpm. (give or take a couple bpm) The extra carbs will aid in fat burning. You'll probably feel better too. Definitely keep in touch. You may still need to tweak things depending how you respond.

 

[Lean One]

I would actually get a heartbeat monitor and find your anaerobic threshold... from there you can find your fat burning zone. .

I would like to know just how you would accomplish that without thousands of dollars of expensive lab equipment to determine VO2 max. IOW, a heart rate moniter is certanly useful, but it will never tell you exactly what your fat burning zone is.

A few people smarter than me (with said expensive equipment) have fortunately figured out a nifty little mathmatic equasion that has yet to fail me in helping clients lose weight. (FAT WEIGHT)

 

[not_big_enuf]

ok, it's not EXACT... but you can get closer with a hearbeat monitor and by having someone knowledgeable monitor your breathing patterns, how well you can speak, etc to figure out various zones. much better than simply keeping to a general bps which is highly varied for different people.

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/triathlon-training/how-to-set-accurate-training-zones-000573.php

if you know your anaerobic threshold, or near, you generalize bps and where other zones are.

I would like to know just how you would accomplish that without thousands of dollars of expensive lab equipment to determine VO2 max. IOW, a heart rate moniter is certanly useful, but it will never tell you exactly what your fat burning zone is.

A few people smarter than me (with said expensive equipment) have fortunately figured out a nifty little mathmatic equasion that has yet to fail me in helping clients lose weight. (FAT WEIGHT)

 

[not_big_enuf]

and all the above being useful or useless, depending on your view... get your ass on the damn treadmill or whatever and burn some damn calories for an extended period of time you'll burn fat too.

hey LO, what equation you talking?

 

[Lean One]

Simple. APMHR - Age Predicted Maximum Heart Rate. (220-Age) X % intensity. 60% to 65 % for aerobic fat burning. That's the starting point.

 

[not_big_enuf]

That's the equation I figured you were looking at. As long as the person is using something and actually finds their max heartrate.

My point was just not to generalize where the bps should be.... it can vary tremendously for many people. People use those damn machines and use the guides and they can be ridiculously off... common sense says that of course, but......

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Yeah here is my diet now:

6 egg whites/2 yolks,2 slices complete protein sprouted grain bread, ketchup(just enough,LOL), 3/4 cup lf cottage cheese.

same as meal 1

1/2 cup oats, 2 scoops whey, 24 oz ff milk

same as meal 3

meat, veggies

meat veggies



my rule of thumb now that I am slowly bulking, is 600 cals or less each meal with 50+ grams of protein each meal. The cardio will be done post workout execpt on leg days. On leg days I will take off from legs and on my off day I will do 1 hour in place of my workout. I will be doing 4 on, 1 off split. I bloated up quite a bit these past few days, I am at a 38 inch waist,LOL. But I know the mind can play tricks on you, so I have to keep telling myself it is bloat. I was a 36 1/2 before the bulk on friday I believe. Today is chest, tris, abs, and 1 hour cardio.

 

[Lean One]

. I bloated up quite a bit these past few days, I am at a 38 inch waist,LOL. But I know the mind can play tricks on you, so I have to keep telling myself it is bloat. I was a 36 1/2 before the bulk on friday I believe.

Try ditching the milk. Too much dairy makes me feel bloated and you're drinking a lot of milk.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Try ditching the milk. Too much dairy makes me feel bloated and you're drinking a lot of milk.

so 48 oz a day is a lot?

 

[Lean One]

so 48 oz a day is a lot?

IMO,yes. Occasionally I like to have an 8 or 12 oz glass to wash down a steak, but that is rare.That's just my opinion though. Try relying less on milk as a staple protein source and see what happens. I'd be curious to hear what you other fellas think.

 

[Giantz11]

To tell you the truth I drink **** loads of Skim, when bulking or dieting. I don't have bloat issues though. Milk Protein is Hi quality IMO.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Yeah to tell you the truth, that is the only way I can get enough cals, is with skim milk. Otherwise I would puking my food up. I used to drink 1 gallon a day. I am also taking it down to 5 meals instead of 6, I get sick if I try to get 6 meals in. I am getting maintainence cals now. I am aiming not to gain any weight but stay at 240-245 and lean out. If you can understand that. I would like to be ideally 220 LBM by the end of my cycle, possibly 225 LBM. I think I am at 210 or a little more right now.

 

[Lean One]

To tell you the truth I drink **** loads of Skim, when bulking or dieting. I don't have bloat issues though. Milk Protein is Hi quality IMO.

I'm not saying milk is low quality protein. Not at all. I'm just offering alternatives to explore in regards to Big Phils bloat issue.

Other options are digestive enzymes and or ginger. I have read numerous reports of ginger enableing guys to handle large quantities of food much more easily.

A simple search will yield a few threads I'm sure...

:gotsearch

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Would 4 hours of cardio a week be OK for a maintainence and slowly leaning out. Because I do not want to shrink but I don not wanna get fat again(olinemen). Also is walking around the neighborhood in the morning for 30 minutes a day of before breakfast OK for my cardio source. Doing it after my intense workouts are impossible now. So I guess 3 and 1/2 hours a week of cardio?

 

[Lean One]

Would 4 hours of cardio a week be OK for a maintainence and slowly leaning out. Because I do not want to shrink but I don not wanna get fat again(olinemen). Also is walking around the neighborhood in the morning for 30 minutes a day of before breakfast OK for my cardio source. Doing it after my intense workouts are impossible now. So I guess 3 and 1/2 hours a week of cardio?

I can't answer that. Mabey, Mabey not. However, regardless of what you do, KNOW THAT YOU ARE IN THE PROPPER HEART RATE ZONE. Generally, you have to walk pretty fast to get and keep your HR at the desired intensity. The hard part is that usually the grade changes often witch makes iyt nearly impossible to maintain a steady consistant THR for up to an HR.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

I can't answer that. Mabey, Mabey not. However, regardless of what you do, KNOW THAT YOU ARE IN THE PROPPER HEART RATE ZONE. Generally, you have to walk pretty fast to get and keep your HR at the desired intensity. The hard part is that usually the grade changes often witch makes iyt nearly impossible to maintain a steady consistant THR for up to an HR.

Well I will try it for a week and report my results....

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Something does not make sense to me..........I thought if you burn more than eat you lose weight. So how does doing cardio for more than 20 minutes constitute fat burning and 20 minutes and under not? If you are using the 20 minutes or less to go under calorie maintainence, wouldn't you still burn fat?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

There are a few conditions that have to be met to put your body in "optimal fat-burning" zone. So, its not "quite" as simple If you want specifics, don't ask me...lol

 

[DieTrying]

Something does not make sense to me..........I thought if you burn more than eat you lose weight. So how does doing cardio for more than 20 minutes constitute fat burning and 20 minutes and under not? If you are using the 20 minutes or less to go under calorie maintainence, wouldn't you still burn fat?

I'm not 100% sure if I understand you're question, but the reason why 20 is the magic number is because that is where the shift from carbohydrate to fat metabolism is seen during submaximal exercise in most people. Basically the longer the duration of an exercise, the more the body utilizes fat as the major substrate.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

yeah I am doing 1 hour now.

 

[manny182]

I'm not 100% sure if I understand you're question, but the reason why 20 is the magic number is because that is where the shift from carbohydrate to fat metabolism is seen during submaximal exercise in most people. Basically the longer the duration of an exercise, the more the body utilizes fat as the major substrate.

what he was trying to ask i think was,as long as the cardio that he does puts him in a calorie deficit for the day,then shouldnt he still lose weight regardless of how long he's doing it for?

 

[DieTrying]

as long as the cardio that he does puts him in a calorie deficit for the day,then shouldnt he still lose weight regardless of how long he's doing it for?

Yep.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

that is what I meant............but yeah, I am doing 1 hour. I knew what you meant as far as short vs. long duration cardio, I was just confused, because a deficit is a deficit no matter which way you scratch it. Isn't it you nutrition that is going to determine how fat is burned and muscle is burned or made? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[DieTrying]

that is what I meant............but yeah, I am doing 1 hour. I knew what you meant as far as short vs. long duration cardio, I was just confused, because a deficit is a deficit no matter which way you scratch it. Isn't it you nutrition that is going to determine how fat is burned and muscle is burned or made? Correct me if I am wrong.

Correct. Nutrition should probably make up to 75-80% of any type of body composition goals.

:clap2:

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

Correct. Nutrition should probably make up to 75-80% of any type of body composition goals.

:clap2:

yeah that was where i was headed..........