In Depth Protein Breakdown

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    In Depth Protein Breakdown


    Types of protein and functions:

    Whey Protein Whey is the top of the pile when it comes to protein, the most popular and the most used among the proteins; 3 factors are the cause of this- affordability, effectivness and advertisment. Whey protein is a derivitive of milk and a byproduct of cheese making. When cheese is created, the milk is curdled, parting the curds and the WHEY. Remember the nursery ryme?
    Benefits of whey-
    *Contains a large quanity of immunoglobin protein which has the ability of enhancing the immune system
    *Contains the highest concentration of branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs)
    *Contains endogenous- most poerful, naturally occuring antioxidant
    * Ability to stimulate production of IGF-1 (Insulin like Growth Factor)
    *Whey is fast aborbing, quick to the muscle protein, this is why whey is so popular post workout, your body needs protein to begin repair to damaged muscles from workout as quick as possible.

    Casein Protein -Forms a gel once in the digestive track/stomach to help regulate time releasing of protein. Derived from milk. This "slowing" effect aids greatly in the absorbtion of amino acids (a good thing)
    Benefits:
    *Time released to provide the muscles with amino acids for an extended period of time
    *A large content of glutamine a muscle sparing amino acid
    *Contains glucogeni amino acids which have been proven to defer muscle breakdown when exercising.

    Milk-Protein Isolate - A combination of whey and casein protein, not much research has been done on this protein, but consumption of it is considered positive because of the contents of both casein and whey.

    Soy Protein - Derived from plants and has never been a large part of bodybuilding. Soy protein is approximatley 70% actual protein and is considered inferior compared to whey and casein. There is a soy protein isolate out on the market and new studies have shown that this protein is very solid in the bodybuilding world
    Benefits
    *Boasts a high concentration of BCAAs
    *Includes amounts of glutamine
    *Proven to have a positive impact on the production of T-4 and T- 3 and even insulin over the various types of other proteins.
    *Helps retention of nitrogen on a small scale and promotes fatloss during low caloric diets.
    * Lowering of triglycerides and cholesterol
    *Recommended dosages are 4 servings a day at 6.25 grams per serving.

    Egg Protein - Once deemed the "golden standard" of proteins, while this reputation has faded a bit, never count out this old school protein. Derived from...you guessed it...eggs
    Benefits
    *Illustrious amino acid profile
    *Provides a complete protein source
    *Conveinet and can be used in the making of baked goods, etc.

    *This is a brief breakdown of the styles of protein out there, I will now list the amount and types of protein in some of the most popular protein supplements-

    **Grams of Whey Per Scoop!**
    Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey- 22g whey protein
    HDT 5+1 Whey- 21g whey protein
    ISS Research Complete Whey- 17g whey protein
    VPX Sports Cross-Pro- 40.2g whey protein
    Cytodyne Cyto Pro- 24g whey protein
    Next Nutrition Designer Whey- 17.5g whey protein
    Designer Whey Glycerlean- 25g whey protein
    Sport Pharma Just Whey- 23g whey protein

    **Egg Protein**
    Beverly International 100% Egg Protein- 23g Egg Protein
    Iss Research Complete Albumen Powder- 22g egg protein

    **Protein Blends**
    Syntrax Isomatrix- 23g Casien, egg and Whey
    Sport Pharma Lean Protein- 25g Casien, Milk Isolate, Egg & Whey
    Next Nutrition Maxxon- 40g whey & Whey peptides
    HDT Pro Blend 55- 55g milk isolate, whey isolate, Egg
    Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex- 55g whey isolate and egg
    ISS research ProM3- 50g Whey, casein, egg
    Met-Rx Protein Plus- 46g Milk isolate, Egg, whey, Casein
    Dorian Yates Pro Peptide- 45g Casein, whey, egg
    Beverly International Ultra Size- 17g Milk Isolate, egg, Soy, whey

    *This is NOT a complete list, I did not include gainers...

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and again if you have a protein supplement you would like to add, feel free to do so, thank you, YJ

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    Hey Yj. I eat 3 whey isolate shakes aday. But when I eat them it is with 1 egg and milk. IS that good for getting long and short protiens?? Talk to ya

    1 morning...

    1 post work out

    3 before bed

     
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    Yes, in my opinion thats one of the most solid blends, Im not a fan of soy protein and if anyone wants to know why I'll be glad to post it, but egg is solid, and whey isolate is the best out there in my opinion....do you make it yourself or you buy it blended curt?
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    I use optimum. I guess it has some concentrate in it as well right?? Talk to ya
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    Optimum's Pro Complex is pretty good, and lurking around a few boards seems to me the new favorite, Im gonna write one of these next week on meal replacements also, but the pro complex has an ion exchange/ cross flow micro-filtration whey and isolate whey peptides, a very nice BCAA get-up and its great if you're looking for low carbs has only 4 or 5 I think, maybe 6, but never the less its a good combo
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    For night time would it be better to go 2 eggs and a litle more milk?? Talk to ya
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    Yes, more milk would be ideal to get more casein in your system for that "down time" at night, keeps supplying your muscles with protein so you can grow while you sleep
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    Thought so. Just wanted to hear it from the PRO.. hehehe. Talk to ya
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    my fav. blend is metrx protein plus. (choc, its ridiculously good) on top of that, its thicker than most protein powder and you already know i like thicker shakes.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Yes, in my opinion thats one of the most solid blends, Im not a fan of soy protein and if anyone wants to know why I'll be glad to post it, but egg is solid, and whey isolate is the best out there in my opinion....do you make it yourself or you buy it blended curt?
    If you don't like soy protein because of the estrogenic effects, just use soy isolate. It eliminates this problem.
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    Thumbs up


    yj thanks 4 another great read.
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    It is a good thread, but I've got one more question:  I always hear specific numbers on the BV and amino acid profile of Whey, Casein, Egg Albumin, and Soy protein--but what about meat?  Any idea of the BV and aa profile of tuna, salmon, beef, chicken, turkey, ham, etc?
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Optimum's Pro Complex is pretty good, and lurking around a few boards seems to me the new favorite, Im gonna write one of these next week on meal replacements also, but the pro complex has an ion exchange/ cross flow micro-filtration whey and isolate whey peptides, a very nice BCAA get-up and its great if you're looking for low carbs has only 4 or 5 I think, maybe 6, but never the less its a good combo
    BUMP

    YJ... what happened to the one on meal replacements... hmmmmm?
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    howdy,

    regarding the BV of different proteins. to be honest it doesn't really matter, most animal derived proteins are close (relatively speaking), however, this does not take timing into effect ( eg. meat immediately before or after workout-bad, a few hours before or an hour later it's great)

    i've actually seen a well run study that showed that casein only is better than whey only after a workout (although whey right after and 30 min later followed by a "slow" protein 60-75min later would be superior) i will try to find this reference if time permits (stupid exams)

    PS try a cup of cottage cheese right before bed every night instead of an MRP, cheaper and better or egg whites

    PPS whey isolate in mine and some faculty members in biochemistry and kinesiology at McMaster University (were i'm a student) is BS, concentrate has very similar amino acid profile and the supposed immunoglobins and microfrations get digested anyway and are absorbed as di and tripeptides. infants have holes in their intestines that allow them to absorb (could also absorb harmful stuff, that is why they are more succeptible to illness) such immunoglobins and other stuff, us adults do not
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    If you don't like soy protein because of the estrogenic effects, just use soy isolate. It eliminates this problem.

    This is true. The benefits so wonderfully stated by YJ are too good to pass up. 20-40 grams a day od soy isolate will do the trick

    PEACE
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    Excellent post, YJ!

    I mix up my protein shakes throughout the day. I use Optimum's 100% Whey in the morning .... and then later in the day I use a blend of Milk and Egg Protein powder on one day and then reverse the order the next. I also throw in some Soy powder (that my wife has lying around) whenever the mood hits.

    Oh yeah, and the milk and egg really does give the shake a very smooth and "creamy" texture.

    Once again, great information. Thanks for sharing.
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    Hey Yj. I eat 3 whey isolate shakes aday. But when I eat them it is with 1 egg and milk. IS that good for getting long and short protiens?? Talk to ya

    1 morning...

    1 post work out

    3 before bed

     
    Whey is useless at any time except postworkout. Any other time only about 30% of it is used. The rest is all just used for energy. Just stick with the egg and milk the other times without the whey except postworkout.
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    Originally posted by Inzah Dude


    Whey is useless at any time except postworkout. Any other time only about 30% of it is used. The rest is all just used for energy. Just stick with the egg and milk the other times without the whey except postworkout.
    i aint trying to nick pick here guy but "useless" usually refers to 0% affectveness....and even in your 30% percent case, whey has its place anytime of the day (best postworkout, and pretty ideal in the morning as well cuz you want a fast absorbing protein after you fasted for 8+ hours)
    Picking whey, casien, egg albumin (spell check that sucka), etc. has alot to do with price too. for some, its very economical to get a whey in bulk (5 lb and up) and intake cottage cheese/eggs for the slower proteins. anyways, i think for your proteins throughout the day other than post, its ideal to get a full spectrum of protein profile (whey, casien.....etc) in one sitting.
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    Milk at bed?  What about carbs?  I am trying to understand this and PLEASE help me!  Are carbs before bed bad?  What is ideal before bed?  I usually do a tbsp of PB and whey shake with water.  I just don't understand the whole no carbs after 7 **** or b4 bed!!!

    HELP a bro out!
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by bpdaddy
    [B]Milk at bed?  What about carbs?  I am trying to understand this and PLEASE help me!  Are carbs before bed bad?  What is ideal before bed?  I usually do a tbsp of PB and whey shake with water.  I just don't understand the whole no carbs after 7 **** or b4 bed [QUOTE]

    The dangero f carbs before bed is over rated bro.....but whey with water before bed is a terrible idea, thats going to digest in roughly an hour, even with the added peanut butter man...
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    The dangero f carbs before bed is over rated bro.....but whey with water before bed is a terrible idea, thats going to digest in roughly an hour, even with the added peanut butter man... [/B]
    I agree with the water, that was my fear.
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    total agreement with YJ. Good idea to add in fats with your whey. If keeping your protein powder in whey is what you are going to do, atleast chuck in cottage cheese into your shake and cut back on the whey. So atleast you have a more diverse protein spectrum. (this also can replace milk, and have less carbs/sugar to deal with) And uknow what, the taste is not altered if your whey is of good taste (or atleast a strong taste).
    In the past, i had 2 sccops of either eas/opt/sportsone whey with 4 oz milk and 4-6 oz water and added pb. But with the added 1/2 cup of cottage cheese, i would add 6 oz water, C.C., pb, and 1.25 scoop whey. (the last part, i had do endure some nights of mixing and guessing to get the right thickness and taste.
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    a half cup of CC!  That sounds sick!
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    Just to add my 2 cents...A somewhat recent (2 years ago)study shows that for those of you interested in losing fat, soy protein might actually be a better choice than whey protein. Even though the study was done in mice, as you know alot things that work on mice work with humans. Check this out:


    Effect of soy and milk whey protein isolates and their hydrolysates on weight reduction in genetically obese mice.
    Author:Aoyama T, Fukui K, Nakamori T, Hashimoto Y, Yamamoto T, Takamatsu K, Sugano M., Volume:64 Issue:12, Page:2594-600 Year:2000 Dec


    The effect on genetically obese mice of a milk whey protein isolate (WPI) and soy protein isolate (SPI) and their hydrolysates (WPI-H, SPI-H) on the rate of body fat disappearance was investigated. Male yellow KK mice were made obese by feeding with a high-fat diet containing 30% fat from 6 to 10 weeks of age. They were then fed with an energy-restricted low fat (5.0%) and high protein (35% WPI, WPI-H, SPI or SPI-H) diet for 2 weeks at the 60% level of energy intake by mice on laboratory feed. During the weight reduction period, the body weight of the WPI, WPI-H, SPI and SPI-H groups changed by -9.1, -9.1, -10.0 and -11.1 g/14 days, respectively, the reduction being significantly lower in the SPI-H group than in the WPI and WPI-H groups. The plasma total cholesterol level was significantly lower with the SPI diet, and the plasma glucose level was lower with the SPI and SPI-H diets than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. Although the body protein content was comparable in all the groups, the body fat content was significantly lower with the SPI diet than with the WPI diet, and was also significantly lower with the SPI-H diet than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. The weight of the perirenal fat pads was significantly lower with the SPI-H diet than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. These results indicate that SPI and SPI-H are suitable protein sources in an energy-restricted diet for treating obesity.
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    Very nice post Sheesh, Ive read that also.
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    Originally posted by bpdaddy
    a half cup of CC!  That sounds sick!
    doesnt it??!!? but i promise you man, the taste of the cc's can barely be noticable with the pb/whey powder mixed in. I did have to add in 2 packets of nutrasweet/splenda for awhile though.
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    So only 30% of the whey protein taken in is used when not after a workout?

    Because that would lower much of my totals, and that would just suck.
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    Originally posted by ReDCuBiN
    So only 30% of the whey protein taken in is used when not after a workout?

    Because that would lower much of my totals, and that would just suck.
    I believe so.
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    Colostrum and Fast vs Slow proteins, quoted directly from robertthoburn @ bb:

    "Milk, as most of you know, is a mixture of two major proteins, whey and casein. Colostrum, or 'first milk', is produced by mammals in the first 1-4 days of nursing. In cows, colostrum is produced up to about the 6th milking.

    Think of colostrum as milk with a built-in 'pharmacy'. Colostrum is teaming with microbe-fighting, tissue-building factors, all ready to go to work on the immature, and desperately dependent infant animal.

    Frequently, milk proteins are separated and sold as individual supplements (e.g., whey protein isolate).

    Not surprisingly, however, research is beginning to suggest that leaving casein and whey together (i.e., as nature gives them to us) may offer superior benefits. (Again, I say "may", as I'm to a certain extent theorizing here.). Casein seems to be especially important in this regard.

    Whey is commonly described as a ‘fast’ protein, meaning it is quickly digested and absorbed. Casein is considered ‘slow’ by comparison. Thus, popular in the bodybuilding community is the notion that combining whey and casein will offer rapid, yet sustained delivery of amino acids to the body's tissues (e.g., your muscles).

    Interestingly enough, however, the differences between casein and whey in terms of amino acid absorption seem to disappear within the context of a mixed meal. Furthermore, when it comes to digestion and absorption, it could be argued that faster is not necessarily better ---quite the contrary, in fact.

    Whey protein tends to 'dump' into the small intestine relatively more quickly than does casein. This is associated with a more rapid exposure ot the intestinal cells to the products of its digestion (peptides, amino acids), resulting in a faster rate of absorption of amino acids into the bloodstream.

    Unfortunately, protein synthesis (as in muscle) occurs at a snail's pace compared to the rapid rate at which whey's amino acids enter the bloodstream. That is, the amino acids are absorbed faster than your muscles' protein-building machinery can make efficient use of them.

    In addition, high levels of certain amino acids can be toxic to your tissues. Thus, much of whey's rapidly absorbed amino acids are accordingly 'burned up', or oxidized, so as to clear them out of the bloodstream. The oxidation of amino acids occurs in preference to that of fat. Thus, rapidly absorped proteins, such as whey, may be expected to suppress the burning of fat and promote fat gain (arguably not an issue, of course, unless you're consuming too many calories).

    In short, the faster your protein supplement is absorbed into your bloodstream as amino acids, the more likely those amino acids are to be 'wasted' (oxidized) rather than channeled into the building of new tissue (e.g., muscle) proteins. Hmm...

    Nevertheless, combining casein with whey, as well as other protein supplements, such as casein, may offer some benefits.

    Colostrum contains a plethora of biologically active components beyond its protein contents. These include growth factors like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I). IGF-I, a 'messenger' of growth hormone (GH), has long been worshipped by bodybuilders as a muscle-enhancing molecule to be reckoned with.

    I have long questioned whether colostrum holds any utility for bodybuilders like myself who 'simply' wish to pack on muscle tissue in the absence of additional (or alongside a concomitant reduction in) body fat.

    Animal studies seem to suggest that colostrum's growth factors exert their effects largely at the intestinal level (e.g., supporting the growth of intestinal tissue), though not entirely so.

    Then there is the question of the bioavailability of colostrum's IGF-I in the adult human: Can it get into the bloodstream and thence the muscles so as to enhance muscle growth?

    In terms of its electrical character, IGF-I is a basic protein. Thus, it's pretty happy (stable) in the acid environment of your gut. But when it gets into the intestine, protein-digesting enzymes can cleave it into pieces, rendering it biologically inactive (i.e., now a mere source of amino acids).

    This brings us back to casein. Casein appears to be capable of protecting biologically active proteins by extending their life time in the intestine. This may extend to biologically active proteins in the colostrum supplements, and possibly whey, that you now see on the retain shelf....or maybe not. Controlled experiments will determine this, perhaps.

    Casein has been shown to increase the half-life of IGF-I in the upper part of the small intestine (duodenum) from 2 to > 30 minutes (similar to its half-life in serum), with 80% of duodental IGF-I still intact after 60 minutes. The same effect of casein is seen with epidermal growth factor (EGF), a related peptide.

    Will combining casein with colostrum allow IGF-I to get into your bloodstream and treat your body to a muscle-building and/or fat-reducing delight? That's highly questionable, but possible.

    Keep in mind, too, that local IGF-I production, i.e., that which occurs right inside your muscles themselves, seems to play the most important role in building bigger muscles. The IGF-I that floats about in your blood stream seems of lesser importance.

    Thus, even if a casein-rich product containing IGF-I from colostrum did manage to affect an increase in blood IGF-I levels, it might not affect intramuscular IGF-I levels sufficiently to trigger growth of this tissue. And perhaps IGF-I that isn't "asked for", i.e., as through pumping iron (which can increase muscle production of IGF-I and its associated receptor) isn't all that useful anyways.

    Just some thoughts.

    To tidy this mess of ideas up for you, casein seems to protect biologically active proteins, such as those found in colostrum (and possibly whey) from destruction/inactivation in the intestine. Thus, adding casein to such products (or leaving milk intact) may be a good thing for your physical apperance and overall health."

    and, the studies. thanks robert.

    casein's protective effect on IGF-I:

    REFERENCES
    Playford RJ, Woodman AC, Clark P et al. (1993). Effect of luminal growth factor preservation on intestinal growth. Lancet, 342: 843.

    Xian CJ, Shoubridge CA, Read LC (1995). Degradation of IGF-I in the adult rat gastrointestinal tract is limited by a specific antiserum or the dietary protein casein. J Endocrinol, 146: 215.
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    Good, interesting reading, Biggin. Thanks for sharing.
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    Originally posted by Sheesh
    Just to add my 2 cents...A somewhat recent (2 years ago)study shows that for those of you interested in losing fat, soy protein might actually be a better choice than whey protein. Even though the study was done in mice, as you know alot things that work on mice work with humans. Check this out:


    Effect of soy and milk whey protein isolates and their hydrolysates on weight reduction in genetically obese mice.
    Author:Aoyama T, Fukui K, Nakamori T, Hashimoto Y, Yamamoto T, Takamatsu K, Sugano M., Volume:64 Issue:12, Page:2594-600 Year:2000 Dec


    The effect on genetically obese mice of a milk whey protein isolate (WPI) and soy protein isolate (SPI) and their hydrolysates (WPI-H, SPI-H) on the rate of body fat disappearance was investigated. Male yellow KK mice were made obese by feeding with a high-fat diet containing 30% fat from 6 to 10 weeks of age. They were then fed with an energy-restricted low fat (5.0%) and high protein (35% WPI, WPI-H, SPI or SPI-H) diet for 2 weeks at the 60% level of energy intake by mice on laboratory feed. During the weight reduction period, the body weight of the WPI, WPI-H, SPI and SPI-H groups changed by -9.1, -9.1, -10.0 and -11.1 g/14 days, respectively, the reduction being significantly lower in the SPI-H group than in the WPI and WPI-H groups. The plasma total cholesterol level was significantly lower with the SPI diet, and the plasma glucose level was lower with the SPI and SPI-H diets than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. Although the body protein content was comparable in all the groups, the body fat content was significantly lower with the SPI diet than with the WPI diet, and was also significantly lower with the SPI-H diet than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. The weight of the perirenal fat pads was significantly lower with the SPI-H diet than with the WPI and WPI-H diets. These results indicate that SPI and SPI-H are suitable protein sources in an energy-restricted diet for treating obesity.
    So would it be beneficial to use soy instead of whey?
    Or whey post workout, and soy for during the day?



    Also, why doesn't anyone just use milk since it has Whey and Casein combined?




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    Whey for Post WO, why...it will get digested faster.  This is what you want.

    I use Soy for dieting and during the day or in the am after i role out of bed.


    Milk is fine for day use or in non post workout shakes, it slow absorbtion.  Olus, milk has carbs and some people may not wnat to have any carbs except post WO.

    PEACE!
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    Great thread.
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    Thanks for the reply, good answer
    Do you know of any god Soy Protein Powders?
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    people bitch, moan, piss and **** themselves over the horrible, awful taste of soy... but I'll tell you something... mix it with milk, sweeten it up just a tad if that's your thing, and it tastes like oatmeal to me... not as thick of course, but I think it tastes really good, I like it. here are some quick suggestions (you'll notice it's hard to find in actual bulk):

    Prolab's Pure Soy- (approx 1 lb for 10 dollars, Prolab is a trustworthy company)

    Met-rx Protein Plus Soy (probably about 25 dollars for 2 lbs, Met-rx ain't bad... not my favorite, but very standard company I believe)

    Optimum Nutrition Opti-Soy (I love my Opt Nut... you know you get what's on the label, they're consistent as hell and cheap to boot. have only used their wheys, but I'd back this)

    Twinlab Vegefuel (my personal favorite because, though I don't use soy now, it's the only one I've ever had experience with. I liked it quite a lot, was easy to mix and drink, *extremely* fine powder... again, just like oatmeal to me, even smelled really good. 1.2 lbs for about 10 bucks)

    Universal Soy Pro (people rag on Universal, but they are old school and I think they're respectable... all supp companies have trusty **** products they pimp in the magazines for the megadollars, but Uni's been around for a long time, and are generally consistent IMO, as well as having some very good standard products (milk and egg proteins, liver tabs, etc). this one's 1.5 lbs for about 13 dollars I guess)

    Protein Customizer (almost forgot about them, as I have yet to order from them. people are generally satisfied though... their soy isolate is 3$ per pound, without anything added... go to the customize page and have fun tinkering to your individual needs)

    any other good products I missed?
  36. Registered User
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    Thanks
    a question: Would adding milk defeat the fat burning properties of Soy?
    Considering the fat and carb content?
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    meh, skim milk... no fat, and the lactose is slower digesting I think than most people realize... it's up to you though, if I mix my **** with water it's gotta be cooooold, and with ice
  38. Registered User
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    Would soy taste ok with say a nutrasweet sweetner?
    or that knew sweetner i saw at proteincustomizer.com
    Cause im okay with water, I take my Whey with water
  39. Registered User
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    yeah bro, that's what I'm sayin... sweetened even a little bit helps remove much of the bland quality that I think so many people associate with a "bad" taste... give it a try, and good luck.
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    Thanks man
    I think ill do that.
    The least it could do is have no taste

    and No taste is better than Bad taste :-P
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