Lean Bulking.. Any tips?

[bell1986]

Hi folks. Hope use had a great xmas. I sure did!

Anyhow..

Ive got another 3-4 weeks to go in my cut to get to the stage where i will be as lean as i can be before bulking.

Thier are loads of articles of Lean Bulking etc but i just wanted to see what everyone on here does and the success of it?

First my maintenance is around 2800 calories. They say a 200 calorie surplus gives the same muscle gain as a 500 calorie surplus. Correct? So i assume 3000 calories would be sufficient to start the surplus?
I want to bulk as long as possible this time im just losing too much strength during this length of cut.

I cycle my bike alot and i would factor in any *burnt* calories ie if i cycled an hour i would add in around 4-5 hundred extra calories to keep me in a surplus.

Whats everyone else's tips? Im Keen on GDA's but i hear some can hinder the way we metabolise carbohydrates? Ie Gymnema affects absorption? Also i hear Berberine can hinder muscle growth also? Some see to disagree in this matter but the study does have some prove based around this. So my plan was to just use a very basic home made GDA. Chromium Pincolinate supplement and also Cinnamon? Is this even worth adding in?

What does everyone else stack to reduce fat gain? I dont use Stim products anymore im passed the stage of using them and tbh i feel 10x better sincr i stopped all of them. I know we all add some during the bulk phase but thier must be good ways to deter the body from even wanting to store fat. Ie mostly muscle growth.

Would rather keep the ££££ to as little as i can as some stacks can add up.

Any info would be great.

Thanks

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Hi folks. Hope use had a great xmas. I sure did!

Anyhow..

Ive got another 3-4 weeks to go in my cut to get to the stage where i will be as lean as i can be before bulking.

Thier are loads of articles of Lean Bulking etc but i just wanted to see what everyone on here does and the success of it?

First my maintenance is around 2800 calories. They say a 200 calorie surplus gives the same muscle gain as a 500 calorie surplus. Correct? So i assume 3000 calories would be sufficient to start the surplus?
I want to bulk as long as possible this time im just losing too much strength during this length of cut.

I cycle my bike alot and i would factor in any *burnt* calories ie if i cycled an hour i would add in around 4-5 hundred extra calories to keep me in a surplus.

Whats everyone else's tips? Im Keen on GDA's but i hear some can hinder the way we metabolise carbohydrates? Ie Gymnema affects absorption? Also i hear Berberine can hinder muscle growth also? Some see to disagree in this matter but the study does have some prove based around this. So my plan was to just use a very basic home made GDA. Chromium Pincolinate supplement and also Cinnamon? Is this even worth adding in?

What does everyone else stack to reduce fat gain? I dont use Stim products anymore im passed the stage of using them and tbh i feel 10x better sincr i stopped all of them. I know we all add some during the bulk phase but thier must be good ways to deter the body from even wanting to store fat. Ie mostly muscle growth.

Would rather keep the ££££ to as little as i can as some stacks can add up.

Any info would be great.

Thanks

Don't know what AAS your on?

I'm about to start a recomp with T3 200mcg, MK677 15mg, novelin R 2iu each 3 big meals, and metformin. Along with 3 AAS the T3 will speed up metabolism, MK will grow muscle in a calorie deficit, insulin is optional but helps push all nutes into cells

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Deleted...Wrong section

 

[TheSuppGuy]

Dont delete it i am interrested

 

[jameschoi]

Leanest bulk right here. No fat whatsoever.

https://giant.gfycat.com/MediocreWeeGemsbok.mp4

 

[AntM1564]

First, make sure you reverse diet. Do not just jump up right to bulking calories. You need to give your body some time to adjust to the new amount of calories. Give the following article a read. This is going to be the number one thing you should worry about at first

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/how-to-bulk-and-keep-your-abs

As far as lean bulking, I like protein at 1.25-1.5 grams /pound. Fats and carbs depend on the day, for me, since I carb cycle. I will post a good article about that below. If you do not want to carb cycle, do not eat excessively over maintenance calories. A few hundred will do. If you want to eat more than that, just throw some cardio in.

For routines, I like a PPL routine, but follow what has worked for you in the past.

Remember, you will gain some fat, that is unavoidable, but you can limit how much fat you put on. Like you mentioned, you could utilize a GDA. Good ingredients to look into are apple cider, cinnamon, berberine, agmatine, na-r-ala. I have ACV before every meal that has carbs and I put cinnamon on virtually everything I eat. A good product to look into would be SlinMax since it contains almost all of those ingredients I mentioned, and others, to aid in driving nutrients to your muscles.

Here is the article on carb cycling, but please do not overlook reverse dieting. You should start there.

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/carb-cycling-codex

 

[Whisky]

First, make sure you reverse diet. Do not just jump up right to bulking calories. You need to give your body some time to adjust to the new amount of calories. Give the following article a read. This is going to be the number one thing you should worry about at first

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/how-to-bulk-and-keep-your-abs

As far as lean bulking, I like protein at 1.25-1.5 grams /pound. Fats and carbs depend on the day, for me, since I carb cycle. I will post a good article about that below. If you do not want to carb cycle, do not eat excessively over maintenance calories. A few hundred will do. If you want to eat more than that, just throw some cardio in.

For routines, I like a PPL routine, but follow what has worked for you in the past.

Remember, you will gain some fat, that is unavoidable, but you can limit how much fat you put on. Like you mentioned, you could utilize a GDA. Good ingredients to look into are apple cider, cinnamon, berberine, agmatine, na-r-ala. I have ACV before every meal that has carbs and I put cinnamon on virtually everything I eat. A good product to look into would be SlinMax since it contains almost all of those ingredients I mentioned, and others, to aid in driving nutrients to your muscles.

Here is the article on carb cycling, but please do not overlook reverse dieting. You should start there.

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/carb-cycling-codex

Yep, this ^^^^ I agree with 100%

 

[bell1986]

First, make sure you reverse diet. Do not just jump up right to bulking calories. You need to give your body some time to adjust to the new amount of calories. Give the following article a read. This is going to be the number one thing you should worry about at first

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/how-to-bulk-and-keep-your-abs

As far as lean bulking, I like protein at 1.25-1.5 grams /pound. Fats and carbs depend on the day, for me, since I carb cycle. I will post a good article about that below. If you do not want to carb cycle, do not eat excessively over maintenance calories. A few hundred will do. If you want to eat more than that, just throw some cardio in.

For routines, I like a PPL routine, but follow what has worked for you in the past.

Remember, you will gain some fat, that is unavoidable, but you can limit how much fat you put on. Like you mentioned, you could utilize a GDA. Good ingredients to look into are apple cider, cinnamon, berberine, agmatine, na-r-ala. I have ACV before every meal that has carbs and I put cinnamon on virtually everything I eat. A good product to look into would be SlinMax since it contains almost all of those ingredients I mentioned, and others, to aid in driving nutrients to your muscles.

Here is the article on carb cycling, but please do not overlook reverse dieting. You should start there.

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/carb-cycling-codex

Awesome info thanks ?

Couple questions. Does the apple cider vinegar kick you out of fasting? Like enough calories to raise any blood sugars? See i fast pretty much everyday and its just part of my life now. I have a ravenous appetite and find fasting suits me better. 2 large meals makes me far more satiated than say 4 smaller meals.

Carb cycling... I do keep my protein higher than the 1g per pound ratio everyone talks about.. I will probably bump it to 1.5g this time (Upper end of your amount) so i will fill the surplus calories in with fats & carbs. Do you keep your fats above the 20% marker that alot of people do?

Do you think a reverse diet of say 2 weeks is enough? If my maintenance *was* 2800 i know it wont be at that by the end of the cut. But say a reverse diet of 2400-2600 for 2 weeks would be enough? I haven't ever done a reverse diet but i can give it a go this time.

Yeh fat gain is inevitable and im fine with that...But if i get almost beyond the leanest i want to be and the fat i do gain will bring me to the level of lean to where i can bulk alot longer. Xmas will set me back a little but thats fine. I had my diet nailed before hand and the fat was dropping off so getting back into it won't be an issue.

I cycle alot (My bike not roids lol) so i will need to factor in the burnt calories i do each time i do go out. I can cover 30 miles at an average 12-14mph so its a big deficit of calories. I just add the exercise to Myfitnesspal and will consume the extra calories. I dont do any other forms of cardio apart from weight training.

My routine is PPL this time round. I have tried full body workouts also and had good results but just gonna do a PPL this bulk and its alot easier to track and see what your progressing with.

Thanks for the info.. Appreciated ?

 

[AntM1564]

Awesome info thanks ��

Couple questions. Does the apple cider vinegar kick you out of fasting? Like enough calories to raise any blood sugars? See i fast pretty much everyday and its just part of my life now. I have a ravenous appetite and find fasting suits me better. 2 large meals makes me far more satiated than say 4 smaller meals.

Carb cycling... I do keep my protein higher than the 1g per pound ratio everyone talks about.. I will probably bump it to 1.5g this time (Upper end of your amount) so i will fill the surplus calories in with fats & carbs. Do you keep your fats above the 20% marker that alot of people do?

Do you think a reverse diet of say 2 weeks is enough? If my maintenance *was* 2800 i know it wont be at that by the end of the cut. But say a reverse diet of 2400-2600 for 2 weeks would be enough? I haven't ever done a reverse diet but i can give it a go this time.

Yeh fat gain is inevitable and im fine with that...But if i get almost beyond the leanest i want to be and the fat i do gain will bring me to the level of lean to where i can bulk alot longer. Xmas will set me back a little but thats fine. I had my diet nailed before hand and the fat was dropping off so getting back into it won't be an issue.

I cycle alot (My bike not roids lol) so i will need to factor in the burnt calories i do each time i do go out. I can cover 30 miles at an average 12-14mph so its a big deficit of calories. I just add the exercise to Myfitnesspal and will consume the extra calories. I dont do any other forms of cardio apart from weight training.

My routine is PPL this time round. I have tried full body workouts also and had good results but just gonna do a PPL this bulk and its alot easier to track and see what your progressing with.

Thanks for the info.. Appreciated ��

I also keep my protein at 1.5g/lb. You don't just reverse for one or two weeks. Look at the article I posted. It gives you a week by week break down of reversing. It is all laid out and will answer all questions.

Regarding carb cycling, again, read the article I posted, it is all there. Also, check out my log, I post my nutrition.

As far as ACV, it has no calories, it will not take you out of your fasted state. Just have some before you meals, simple.

 

[u_e_s_i]

I also keep my protein at 1.5g/lb. You don't just reverse for one or two weeks. Look at the article I posted. It gives you a week by week break down of reversing. It is all laid out and will answer all questions.

Regarding carb cycling, again, read the article I posted, it is all there. Also, check out my log, I post my nutrition.

As far as ACV, it has no calories, it will not take you out of your fasted state. Just have some before you meals, simple.

Could you link your log please?

Also, acv slows digestion, something to keep in mind

 

[AntM1564]

Could you link your log please?

Also, acv slows digestion, something to keep in mind

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/269588-antms-lean-bulk.html

 

[Chados]

Obviously the less calories you add the slower it'll be to gain 20 pounds. And obviously the slower you do it the harder it is to add fat. It's impossible to say but personally I don't look too much in to calories, I like to eat a lot and very clean food.

 

[john.patterson]

I think 3000 would be a good starting point. As mentioned by others, carb cycling is a great strategy to keep fat gain to a minimum while lean bulking. I would also encourage you to keep the cycling in. Some people decrease cardio or drop it completely while trying to gain muscle, but I find that keeping my cardio in my routine helps me to control fat gain and stay leaner while slowly putting on weight.

My current split is a modified PPL split that I've tailored toward my areas I am working to bring up (legs and delts). How you break up your training is completely up to you, but make sure that you're pushing yourself every day and focus on progression (in weight or reps) each week.

For supplementation, Ant has you covered on the GDA questions. I would recommend using ACV as well, and I think incorporating a GDA like Slinmax is always beneficial for higher carb meals/days. Are you taking any other supplements?

 

[u_e_s_i]

I think 3000 would be a good starting point. As mentioned by others, carb cycling is a great strategy to keep fat gain to a minimum while lean bulking. I would also encourage you to keep the cycling in. Some people decrease cardio or drop it completely while trying to gain muscle, but I find that keeping my cardio in my routine helps me to control fat gain and stay leaner while slowly putting on weight.

My current split is a modified PPL split that I've tailored toward my areas I am working to bring up (legs and delts). How you break up your training is completely up to you, but make sure that you're pushing yourself every day and focus on progression (in weight or reps) each week.

For supplementation, Ant has you covered on the GDA questions. I would recommend using ACV as well, and I think incorporating a GDA like Slinmax is always beneficial for higher carb meals/days. Are you taking any other supplements?

Could you advise me on macros please?
I've used a few maintenance calculators and at 5'8, 160lbs, 12-14% bf they say my maintenance should be 2000-2200.
I'm currently recomping and am eating 1500-1700kcal most days, 2000-2200 once or twice a week. The recomp is going well but I don't have an equipment for monitoring bf on a weekly basis.

I came across a thread where the guy, 5'9, 150lbs, lean Said he's eating 3000-3500 kcal a day during his lean bulk.
Do you have any comments regarding my current macros and what would you advise daily for lean bulking?

 

[Chados]

Could you advise me on macros please?
I've used a few maintenance calculators and at 5'8, 160lbs, 12-14% bf they say my maintenance should be 2000-2200.
I'm currently recomping and am eating 1500-1700kcal most days, 2000-2200 once or twice a week. The recomp is going well but I don't have an equipment for monitoring bf on a weekly basis.

I came across a thread where the guy, 5'9, 150lbs, lean Said he's eating 3000-3500 kcal a day during his lean bulk.
Do you have any comments regarding my current macros and what would you advise daily for lean bulking?

Either that guy calculated wrong, he thought he was lean but wasn't or he just used these calories perfectly with cardio. You can eat 6000 as long as you get rid of it.

 

[john.patterson]

Could you advise me on macros please?
I've used a few maintenance calculators and at 5'8, 160lbs, 12-14% bf they say my maintenance should be 2000-2200.
I'm currently recomping and am eating 1500-1700kcal most days, 2000-2200 once or twice a week. The recomp is going well but I don't have an equipment for monitoring bf on a weekly basis.

I came across a thread where the guy, 5'9, 150lbs, lean Said he's eating 3000-3500 kcal a day during his lean bulk.
Do you have any comments regarding my current macros and what would you advise daily for lean bulking?

Everyone is different when it comes to calorie intake. Some guys can get lean on 400g of carbs, and other guys need to be <100g of carbs - everyone is different.

Are you gaining weight with your current intake? For a lean bulk, I typically aim for .5lb - 1lb body weight gain per week. I wouldn't be too focused on tracking body fat on a weekly basis, but focus more on the scale and what the mirror is telling you. If you're able to gain .5-1lb per week then I would keep doing what you're doing. But if the scale isn't slowly climbing you could add in 200-300 more calories per day and see how things go.

Regarding macros, I always aim for 1-1.2g of protein per pound of bodyweight (so for you, 160-190g protein). Fats I like to keep on the lower side, 15-20% of total calories (so for a 2200kcal diet, 40-50g fat). Then take the remaining calories (appx. 1100 calories) and fill that with carbs (which gives you about 275g of carbs.

 

[Whisky]

Could you advise me on macros please?
I've used a few maintenance calculators and at 5'8, 160lbs, 12-14% bf they say my maintenance should be 2000-2200.
I'm currently recomping and am eating 1500-1700kcal most days, 2000-2200 once or twice a week. The recomp is going well but I don't have an equipment for monitoring bf on a weekly basis.

I came across a thread where the guy, 5'9, 150lbs, lean Said he's eating 3000-3500 kcal a day during his lean bulk.
Do you have any comments regarding my current macros and what would you advise daily for lean bulking?

I personally try to reverse diet when coming off a cut or recomp into a lean bulk. Add 150 a day each week until you find the scales moving slowly (0.5lb a week) in the right direction, then sit at that point.

So many variables with regard to how many Cals you need. I’m 6’1, 205lbs and maintenance is 3750-4000, but I run 7.5k fasted 5 or 6 mornings a week and weight train 5 days......you need to find your personal level.

 

[u_e_s_i]

Everyone is different when it comes to calorie intake. Some guys can get lean on 400g of carbs, and other guys need to be <100g of carbs - everyone is different.

Are you gaining weight with your current intake? For a lean bulk, I typically aim for .5lb - 1lb body weight gain per week. I wouldn't be too focused on tracking body fat on a weekly basis, but focus more on the scale and what the mirror is telling you. If you're able to gain .5-1lb per week then I would keep doing what you're doing. But if the scale isn't slowly climbing you could add in 200-300 more calories per day and see how things go.

Regarding macros, I always aim for 1-1.2g of protein per pound of bodyweight (so for you, 160-190g protein). Fats I like to keep on the lower side, 15-20% of total calories (so for a 2200kcal diet, 40-50g fat). Then take the remaining calories (appx. 1100 calories) and fill that with carbs (which gives you about 275g of carbs.

(1) On 1500-1700 5 days a week, 2000-2200 2 days a week I was getting a good bit stronger whilst leaning out during November and early December training 6 days a week.
Since then (2) I've been travelling and been on a deload, 1500-1700 2 or 3 days a week, 2000-2200 4 or 5 days a week with the occasional <2500 calorie day and training ~5 days a week. Gotten a little stronger on some lifts these last two weeks and am looking a little less lean.
Going to get back to (1) in 3 days. When I'm back at below 8% I'll do as you say and slowly up calories. Maybe I'll only start putting on .5-1lbs a week at over 3000kcal I'll be pretty happy, having 3000kcals a day will feel pretty darn accommodating haha

 

[u_e_s_i]

I personally try to reverse diet when coming off a cut or recomp into a lean bulk. Add 150 a day each week until you find the scales moving slowly (0.5lb a week) in the right direction, then sit at that point.

So many variables with regard to how many Cals you need. I’m 6’1, 205lbs and maintenance is 3750-4000, but I run 7.5k fasted 5 or 6 mornings a week and weight train 5 days......you need to find your personal level.

Thanks for the advice. 7.5k fasted 5 or 6 mornings a week... damn Good job on that

 

[u_e_s_i]

The scale was pretty static when I was getting stronger whilst leaning out which I'm content with. I mean if I'm packing on muscle at the same rate as I'm leaning out that sounds like decent progress.
I think I'd lost 2-3% bf in that month which is 1.5-2.25lbs

 

[Whisky]

Thanks for the advice. 7.5k fasted 5 or 6 mornings a week... damn Good job on that

Lol thanks. To be honest I have a Labrador so I run with her - saves me an hour a day as I’d have to walk her for much longer than we run.

 

[bell1986]

Woke up this morning 154.8 pounds.. My lightest weight before xmas and xmas morning was 155.4 pounds. Does that mean i have lost all the extra xmas gain + a little more? I don't always count on the scales but im just using it as a reference just now.

After xmas ' Boxing day and also i was on holiday for 3 days i never tracked anything and i honestly consumed 20k calories over xmas day and boxing day also.. Crazy amount of food and sweets but was a great time.. The 3 day holiday i ate relatively normal but still in a surplus of calories i reckon.. After that period i weighed 165 pounds ish.. 5th day back dieting and im lighter than before xmas morning? Seems a massive drop for a short space of time and now surpassed my lowest weigh in.. I used a basic DIY GDA on all my xmas meals and added in some HCA to aid a little but i never sacrificed any foods or calories.. Ate till i was unable to move on xmas.. Should i just continue on my same calorie/macro intake? Its not crazy low though or by any terms near a crash diet. 2000 calories and im 5ft9. Geared towards lower carbs.

What i find to have been a big plus is i can fast for 20+ hours every single day no problem. Not sure if the fasting has a big impact in the extra fat loss? I know alot of people say its all about calories in vs Calories out but im certain fasting has given me an edge over normal dieting.. A suppose all our bodys are different.

 

[Chados]

What you've lost is impossible to say. Water fat and muscle can be lost and gained. It's normal to lose water and gain fat due to cortisol. Muscles tend to be harder to get rid of but due to the fullness extra weight gives, sometimes you can look a bit smaller after a cycle.

 

[bell1986]

What you've lost is impossible to say. Water fat and muscle can be lost and gained. It's normal to lose water and gain fat due to cortisol. Muscles tend to be harder to get rid of but due to the fullness extra weight gives, sometimes you can look a bit smaller after a cycle.

Yeh i do look smaller at the moment but after a month of bulking and higher carb intake that fullness will be back.. My training has been on point and protein is around the 200g mark so muscle loss should be minimum if any?

My target is 150 pounds.. Im starting to hit that very skinny in clothes stage.. So without your top off everyone assumes your dying.. So about another 2+ weeks of dieting then i will be happy to bulk from then.. Well... Reverse diet first.

 

[Chados]

Yeh i do look smaller at the moment but after a month of bulking and higher carb intake that fullness will be back.. My training has been on point and protein is around the 200g mark so muscle loss should be minimum if any?

My target is 150 pounds.. Im starting to hit that very skinny in clothes stage.. So without your top off everyone assumes your dying.. So about another 2+ weeks of dieting then i will be happy to bulk from then.. Well... Reverse diet first.

Very hard to say how you recover. People sometimes don't realize that steroids song put on 20 lbs of muscle. 5lbs is a huge gain even if it for some bodyshapes won't be as noticeable.