Macro question

[clem3030]

If my BMR is 1799 per day and I want to loose 2lbs per week daily intake 1600? My TDEE is like 3500. Need some help. I'm using the my fitness pal app and carb cycling with very good results but 1500-1600 per day seems way low.

 

[AntM1564]

You want to go by your TDEE, so if you want to lose weight, you would eat under 3500 cals.

 

[Ianj66]

I go a way easier way and it's always worked for me. To maintain weight take your body weight in Lbs as multiply it by 14-16. The. Take away 500 calories. Eat that you will lose weight. DO NOT eat 1600 cals you will lose weight but you will lose so much muscle

 

[frankz2]

You want to go by your TDEE, so if you want to lose weight, you would eat under 3500 cals.

Bingo. Likely closer to 3200.

 

[AlexPowell]

If my BMR is 1799 per day and I want to loose 2lbs per week daily intake 1600? My TDEE is like 3500. Need some help. I'm using the my fitness pal app and carb cycling with very good results but 1500-1600 per day seems way low.

It may seem difficult but it's not that hard. Eat normally for a week first and keep a food log so you know exactly your intake. You may have already done this so that's great.

Keep protein at 1g/lb, this is plenty
You only need enough carbohydrate to replenish glycogen, that is it. Unless you compete in a sport or do strongman, this is likely 1g/lb on training days and 0.5g/lb on rest days. If you're used to a heavy high amount of carbs then start on 2g/lb and lower them slowly or you'll be in for a shock! After glycogen synthesis the only thing carbs do is give calories so I prefer to keep them on the low side because you'll get more insulin sensitive as a result.

The remainder of the calories should come from fats. The macros don't need to be exact remember- it's just energy. Just make sure you hit the minimal protein and carbohydrate intake and don't go over the maximum carbohydrate intake (which I'd put at 2g/lb if training with very high volume) and the rest of the calories can come from mixed sources. I'd aim to keep the carbs as near to the aim as possible however.

Then just take 20% off whatever you're eating now, calorie wise

 

[dbrock504]

DO NOT eat 1600 cals you will lose weight but you will lose so much muscle

And be considered anorexic. Your BMR is what you body naturally burns if you were in a coma. You eat close to or under that, you're literally eating away at your body. It's completely unhealthy. These guys gave you good advice.

 

[AlexPowell]

And be considered anorexic. Your BMR is what you body naturally burns if you were in a coma. You eat close to or under that, you're literally eating away at your body. It's completely unhealthy. These guys gave you good advice.

That's not really true. You won't lose significant muscle with calories that low in the short term. But it doesn't need to be that low

 

[dbrock504]

That's not really true. You won't lose significant muscle with calories that low in the short term. But it doesn't need to be that low

Who said anything about the length of the diet? Trying to sustain a diet under your BMR is malnutrition.

 

[Ianj66]

Just carb cycle man, start with 3 high/normal days to 1 low. After 2 weeks move to 3 high 2 low do that for 5 weeks and evaluate how much you have lost, at that point you can continue with the 3/2 until you plateau or move to a 3/1.

Carb cycling is the only way to go in my opinion I didn't count calories for my entire show prep. Followed this and went from 15% to 5%

 

[AlexPowell]

Who said anything about the length of the diet? Trying to sustain a diet under your BMR is malnutrition.

There is nothing really wrong with short term malnutrition, especially under a month

 

[frankz2]

There is nothing really wrong with short term malnutrition, especially under a month

What is this based on?

 

[AlexPowell]

What is this based on?

1500kcal being plenty of calories to get in all the protein you need, all the micronutrients you need and all the essential fatty acids
Starvation is not dangerous if all these criteria is met, there is not any evidence to suggest that their is

 

[dbrock504]

1500kcal being plenty of calories to get in all the protein you need, all the micronutrients you need and all the essential fatty acids Starvation is not dangerous if all these criteria is met, there is not any evidence to suggest that their is

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say your response is irresponsible. No one said anything about the length of this diet. It came off to me like he wanted to do this for a consistent 12 weeks or so. "Starvation" is dangerous to sustain for a period of time. 99% don't know how to properly meet that criteria you're talking about. If you read the op, you can tell he doesn't. So although you aren't technically wrong, I would call your comments irresponsible.

Eat 1500 and get back to me after you morph into an Ethiopian.

 

[Ianj66]

The body's metabolism is a real bitch, you eat a deficit like that and you're sure to lose weight, but:
1.Kiss every gain you've gotten in the gym goodbye
2. You're strength is gonna plummet
3. Mood will be trash.
4.hormone levels trash
5. And after you come off this extreme I guarantee you will gain a substantial amount of fat back.

See the body is designed to hold onto fat. It doesn't want to be that low in BF, as a result when you diet down that low chances are you don't have experience with reverse dieting out of a cut, so your body will think that you are starving and hold On to every calorie you take in, so you will begin to store a ton of fat due to your body not knowing when you will put it through another period of starvation again.

 

[frankz2]

1500kcal being plenty of calories to get in all the protein you need, all the micronutrients you need and all the essential fatty acids Starvation is not dangerous if all these criteria is met, there is not any evidence to suggest that their is

And you can make this recommendation without knowing height, weight, age, gender, bf% or any of these factors? No dietitian would ever recommend to eat half of TDEE right away.

 

[RecompMan]

1500kcal being plenty of calories to get in all the protein you need, all the micronutrients you need and all the essential fatty acids Starvation is not dangerous if all these criteria is met, there is not any evidence to suggest that their is

Really?

Leptin depletion, lower thyroid levels, increased alpha 2 adrenoreceptor

There's a lot of evidence

 

[clem3030]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am doing 2200-2500 per day now with 2 high 3 low for carbs. I'll track for. Week or two see how it goes and post. Stats: 5ft 9"
39 years young
194lbs
18% bf approximately
Lifting 5 days a week 5x5 cardio fasted every other day 40min. Liss
Will do HIIT after my cardio comes up

 

[AlexPowell]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say your response is irresponsible. No one said anything about the length of this diet. It came off to me like he wanted to do this for a consistent 12 weeks or so. "Starvation" is dangerous to sustain for a period of time. 99% don't know how to properly meet that criteria you're talking about. If you read the op, you can tell he doesn't. So although you aren't technically wrong, I would call your comments irresponsible.

Eat 1500 and get back to me after you morph into an Ethiopian.

It's not irresponsible lol. If people are too stupid to realise that they shouldn't starve themselves for an extended period of time then they are morons. I'm sure the OP realizes this.

The body's metabolism is a real bitch, you eat a deficit like that and you're sure to lose weight, but:
1.Kiss every gain you've gotten in the gym goodbye
2. You're strength is gonna plummet
3. Mood will be trash.
4.hormone levels trash
5. And after you come off this extreme I guarantee you will gain a substantial amount of fat back.

See the body is designed to hold onto fat. It doesn't want to be that low in BF, as a result when you diet down that low chances are you don't have experience with reverse dieting out of a cut, so your body will think that you are starving and hold On to every calorie you take in, so you will begin to store a ton of fat due to your body not knowing when you will put it through another period of starvation again.

Not really
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full
eople on a very low energy diet (VLED) were more successful at dieting that people on a hypocaloric balanced diet (HBD) which is basically a normal diet with slightly lowered calories to allow for weight loss. The average weight-loss maintenance on a VLED was about 15 pounds (29% of the total weight they had lost), compared to about 4.5 pounds (only 17% of the total weight they had lost) on a HBD. Basically, very low energy diets result in more weight loss and you’re likely to keep more of it off.

Lose more weight, more quickly, and you’re more likely to keep more of it off. <—this sentence is a tribute to the word “more”

And you can make this recommendation without knowing height, weight, age, gender, bf% or any of these factors? No dietitian would ever recommend to eat half of TDEE right away.

I didn't recommend that he eats half of his TDEE right away. Not sure why you're saying I did. I just said in the short term it's not harmful or dangerous

Really?

Leptin depletion, lower thyroid levels, increased alpha 2 adrenoreceptor

There's a lot of evidence

In a month? Not going to happen. No clinical evidence of long-term damage. Thyroid levels increase within 3 days of higher carbohydrate
No clinical evidence of chronic leptin depletion
No clinical evidence of chronic increased alpha 2 adrenoreceptor

 

[dbrock504]

I've learned to NEVER assume on here. You'd be surprised the ignorance most people have. And again, no one stated the length of the diet, so advocating for essentially starvation is stupid.

 

[clem3030]

As for the length of the diet the goal is to get to 12% BF. I've hit 15% and had nice definition in the past. I'm not in a hurry I know this takes time I am willing to go slow and diet right. Like I said now at 2200 cals per day so 300 lower then my TDEE. Will adjust as needed. Still going to carb cycle.

 

[AlexPowell]

I've learned to NEVER assume on here. You'd be surprised the ignorance most people have. And again, no one stated the length of the diet, so advocating for essentially starvation is stupid.

To be fair I said that he should do a 20% reduction from maintenance and then explicitly stated that there is nothing wrong with short term hard dieting. I didn't recommend it at all or make an assumption. I stated exactly what I meant

 

[Ianj66]

I believe whole heartedly that low energy diets help you lose more WEIGHT the point here for him is to decrease body fat. If you eat low calories YOU WILL lose muscle plain and simple. So those people who lost 15 lbs I'm sure lost quite a bit of muscle as opposed to the people who lost 4.5. My recommendation for him is to lose fat by cycling and preserve as much muscle as possible. Fat is much easier to lose than it is to gain back muscle you have lost.

 

[dbrock504]

To be fair I said that he should do a 20% reduction from maintenance and then explicitly stated that there is nothing wrong with short term hard dieting. I didn't recommend it at all or make an assumption. I stated exactly what I meant

"If people are too stupid to realise that they shouldn't starve themselves for an extended period of time then they are morons. I'm sure the OP realizes this."

That's called making an assumption. Just be careful how you say things. Initially it sounded like you advocated for him to remain at such a low deficit.

 

[clem3030]

Sticking with 2200 cals for now. As for time I will take it slow just trying to fine tune and get to 12% bf. I will continue to carb cycle and adjust my cals as needed just enjoying the healthy lifestyle and watching my body change.

 

[AlexPowell]

"If people are too stupid to realise that they shouldn't starve themselves for an extended period of time then they are morons. I'm sure the OP realizes this."

That's called making an assumption. Just be careful how you say things. Initially it sounded like you advocated for him to remain at such a low deficit.

I stated explicitly that it's fine in the short term lol.

 

[frankz2]

Short term, you're right. I just err on the side of idiot-proofing posts. (Not aimed at anyone just explaining my dissent) Too many people take anonymous words as gospel instead of as a springboard to further research and knowledge.

 

[AlexPowell]

If the OP wants to do something crazy then he should buy "The Rapid Fat Loss" book by Lyle McDonald.
Everything he needs is in there for an ultra low calorie diet

 

[RecompMan]

It's not irresponsible lol. If people are too stupid to realise that they shouldn't starve themselves for an extended period of time then they are morons. I'm sure the OP realizes this. Not really http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full eople on a very low energy diet (VLED) were more successful at dieting that people on a hypocaloric balanced diet (HBD) which is basically a normal diet with slightly lowered calories to allow for weight loss. The average weight-loss maintenance on a VLED was about 15 pounds (29% of the total weight they had lost), compared to about 4.5 pounds (only 17% of the total weight they had lost) on a HBD. Basically, very low energy diets result in more weight loss and you’re likely to keep more of it off. Lose more weight, more quickly, and you’re more likely to keep more of it off. <—this sentence is a tribute to the word “more” I didn't recommend that he eats half of his TDEE right away. Not sure why you're saying I did. I just said in the short term it's not harmful or dangerous In a month? Not going to happen. No clinical evidence of long-term damage. Thyroid levels increase within 3 days of higher carbohydrate No clinical evidence of chronic leptin depletion No clinical evidence of chronic increased alpha 2 adrenoreceptor

Leptin reduction in 3-5 days is 50% there are studies there

But you didn't recommend refeeds

There's so much clinical evidence it's crazy man

Although fairly new, leptin, has a ton of studies

But things I suggest you look at during hypo caloric diets like that are

Agrp npy and pyy

In as little as 3 days there's reduction of LEPTIN

 

[AlexPowell]

Leptin reduction in 3-5 days is 50% there are studies there

But you didn't recommend refeeds

There's so much clinical evidence it's crazy man

Although fairly new, leptin, has a ton of studies

But things I suggest you look at during hypo caloric diets like that are

Agrp npy and pyy

In as little as 3 days there's reduction of LEPTIN

What I recommended was a 20% decrease from maintenance. I just said that a short term ultra low calorie diet was not harmful.
Look up how fast leptin levels increase again. It's 3 days or less. It's not chronic, it's fine.

 

[RecompMan]

What I recommended was a 20% decrease from maintenance. I just said that a short term ultra low calorie diet was not harmful. Look up how fast leptin levels increase again. It's 3 days or less. It's not chronic, it's fine.

I know how fast they return to normal in some cases you need 3 days of oveefeeding and as many as 5

Short term few days at a time I agree with but consistent you'll not like the results especially after a month

Additional calcium intake when going back to "normal" diet has been shown to reduce fat increase due to reductions in agrp

 

[AlexPowell]

I know how fast they return to normal in some cases you need 3 days of oveefeeding and as many as 5

Short term few days at a time I agree with but consistent you'll not like the results especially after a month

Additional calcium intake when going back to "normal" diet has been shown to reduce fat increase due to reductions in agrp

I don't get what point you're trying to make. The question was "is there a long term harm with short term VLC diets as long as you're hitting all your essential micronutrients?" and the answer is still "no"

 

[RecompMan]

It depends on what's considered long term

I still have to respectfully disagree as I've done extensive research on this topic

 

[saggy321]

The body's metabolism is a real bitch, you eat a deficit like that and you're sure to lose weight, but:
1.Kiss every gain you've gotten in the gym goodbye
2. You're strength is gonna plummet
3. Mood will be trash.
4.hormone levels trash
5. And after you come off this extreme I guarantee you will gain a substantial amount of fat back.

See the body is designed to hold onto fat. It doesn't want to be that low in BF, as a result when you diet down that low chances are you don't have experience with reverse dieting out of a cut, so your body will think that you are starving and hold On to every calorie you take in, so you will begin to store a ton of fat due to your body not knowing when you will put it through another period of starvation again.

Completely agree with this having tried low cal diets. Ignore the post about crash dieting. Take in 200 to 300 kcal less than the tdee to begin with.

 

[Ianj66]

Trust me man when it comes up fat loss I know what I'm talking about from extensive experience

 

[saggy321]

Impressive dude!! You may know about fat loss, but I have first hand experience of a crash diet and its consequences, Seriously, it took me months to recover and had to take 4-6 weeks off from any sort of training. Hence I completely agree with you that just because you can crash diet doesn't mean you should.

 

[saggy321]

1500kcal being plenty of calories to get in all the protein you need, all the micronutrients you need and all the essential fatty acids
Starvation is not dangerous if all these criteria is met, there is not any evidence to suggest that their is

Possibly the worst advice I have come across on this board!