View Poll Results: Best fat loss, best muscle preservation, shortest time to results

Voters
49. This poll is closed
  • Timed Ketogenic Diet (TKD)

    9 18.37%
  • Cyclic Ketogenic Diet (CKD)

    34 69.39%
  • Long term ketosis (no carb-ups)

    6 12.24%

Keto Diet poll

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  1. Question Keto Diet poll


    Pretty straightforward: which diet has produced the most solid fat loss in the shortest amount of time while preserving or increasing muscle in your experience - TKD, CKD, or full blown long term keto (i.e. no carb-ups)?


  2. not sure if this fits in with CKD or not but i find the Animalbolics way of carb only after resistance training very beneficial for muscle preservation with good fat loss as long as you have a good idea of how many carbs you need postworkout to just replenish glycogen stores
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  3. From what I've read, Cosmo, that's a Timed Ketogenic Diet.

  4. Ah, thats me then. Thanks

  5. It really depends on what your goals are.

    For the BBer, a protein-sparing CKD is by far the best way to go.

    For someone who say has to make weight for a sport, a TKD (Targetted ketogenic Diet) may proove to be more optimal. Not reccommended for the regualr lifter who is just cutting because there is more risk of muscle loss albeit small.

    The SKD (standard ketogenic diet) is just assinine. This WILL CAUSE MUSCLE LOSS. This is the worst option for anyone who is a BBer or really trains well in the gym. For the obese person, this would be a good option for the initial 4-6 weeks, but carbs are a must for muscle glycogen. People are more uneducated when they say "I just want to lose fat and dont care about muscle". They don't realize that the mroe LBM a person has the more calories he/she will burn throughout a day.
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  6. Neither.

    They all are extremely overrated.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  7. i would say a high/mod carb diet

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Neither.

    They all are extremely overrated.
    Agreed.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    Agreed.
    So what kind of diet do you recommend then? 40-40-20?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Irongame
    So what kind of diet do you recommend then? 40-40-20?
    That's a decent place to start.

  11. It depends on your goals, your body and your experience level in my opinion.

    A blanket statement is really helpful. Competitors follow a myraid of nutritional strategies for their contest prep. Some of them do moderate carb/protein and low fat. Some do high protein, low carb and moderate fat, some do high carb, moderate protein and low fat. Some do isocaloric. So obviously there are several ways to skin a cat. Let's not try to delude people into thinking there's only one way to accomplish something.

    Just the same as some can get into contest shape without any cardio while others do cardio.

    The key, in my opinion, is understanding of your body to accomplish your goals.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Irongame
    So what kind of diet do you recommend then? 40-40-20?
    Yes. I have had better results with 99% of my clients with this type of diet than any other. Most of my clients are former low carb advocates that swore up and down that low carb was the way to go. I've trained one of the MODS at C-K-D.com and he will never go back to low carb again. He was one of those guys that swore up and down that his metabolism wouldn't allow him to consume a good amount of carbs. Well after 16 weeks he was leaner than he ever was before while maintaining all of his LBM and strength.

    So to answer the original question, no diet has "increased" fat loss over the other. Fat loss is very long process and is not increased by simply reducing carbs. Weight loss could be increased from the loss of glycogen and water but actual fat loss is not increased and during times of single bf% could actually be decreased due to the hormonal responses the body will have due to carb restriction. However LBM loss over a prolonged peroid of time is increased with carb restriction. So if you are not one of genetically elite then start your decision making by choosing a diet that has been proven time and time again at working and that is more of a high protein carb based diet. 99% of competitive bodybuilders alsways use a carb based diet and slowly restrict overall calories over time. The low carb phase is for the last week or two can help with decreasing sub'q water and preparing the body for supercompensation come contest time.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  13. By the way, if you're going to go with the ratio way of dieting, this site: http://www.nutritiondata.com/ has a function under the 'Tools' tab at the top left that allows you to search every food known (pretty much) by their ratio. They also have an abundance of other useful tools and information for the practicing dieter.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Neither.

    They all are extremely overrated.
    A-men.

  15. i dont know the difference between the 3. someone enlighten me please

  16. Quote Originally Posted by oh-honey
    i dont know the difference between the 3. someone enlighten me please
    Enlighten yourself.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/search.php

  17. thanks, nice one

    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One

  18. Quote Originally Posted by oh-honey
    thanks, nice one
    Glad to be of help.

  19. I don't think that CKD is overrated in the least bit... A majority of people on CKD end up either maintaining all of their muscle mass, if not building muscle -- while losing the standard 1-2 lbs a week. I don't think that 40/40/20 has that kind of a record. To each his own I guess. The caloric deficit is and will always be the most important thing... so if a diet works better for some people more than others in terms of muscle preservation and fatloss, I see no way that it can be overrated.

    Whatever you all are thinking of as overrated is probably a CKD full of crap carbups and high processed foods.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AldrichAStern
    I don't think that 40/40/20 has that kind of a record.
    You are right. It has a better one. Just ask the majority of competitive bodybuilders.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  21. Bobo, just curious about your thoughts on keto diets. I've been a longtime believer in CKD, but some of the ideas seem slightly sketchy... You say that there's no benefit from being in ketosis, however, it seems to be well-circulated, that ketones are an insufficient source of energy, and therefore you're not getting calorie-for-calorie out of them, thereby giving you that "metabolic advantage" that keto gurus seem to always talk about. What are your thoughts on this? Is this just bunk?

    I personally run a CKD because I feel like it keeps me strict. A 40/40/20 is so much harder for me to keep strict on... each time I've tried to run one, it's eventually failed because of my unsatiable appetite for carbohydrates. Would be curious to see if I could benefit from subscribing to your training program for cutting on a 40/40/20 in the near future

  22. Quote Originally Posted by AldrichAStern
    Bobo, just curious about your thoughts on keto diets. I've been a longtime believer in CKD, but some of the ideas seem slightly sketchy... You say that there's no benefit from being in ketosis, however, it seems to be well-circulated, that ketones are an insufficient source of energy, and therefore you're not getting calorie-for-calorie out of them, thereby giving you that "metabolic advantage" that keto gurus seem to always talk about. What are your thoughts on this? Is this just bunk?
    There is no metabolic advnatage. Ketosis is more a side effect. EVen Lyle himself states this and you cna't get anymore "CKD" than him.

    Ketones eventually get broken down to what everything esle eventually gets broken down to, ATP. There is simply no advantage at all being in ketosis.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  23. Energetics of obesity and weight control: does diet composition matter?

    Schoeller DA, Buchholz AC.


    Greater average weight losses (2.5 kg over 12 weeks) have been reported for low-carbohydrate diets (<90 g/day) compared with traditional low-fat (<25% of energy), hypocaloric diets, implying a 233 kcal/day greater energy deficit. It has therefore been suggested that a low-carbohydrate diet may provide a metabolic advantage (an increase in energy expenditure), resulting in a positive effect on weight loss and maintenance. However, a review of studies in which 24-hour energy expenditure was measured did not provide evidence to support a metabolic advantage of low-carbohydrate diets and showed little evidence of a metabolic advantage of high-protein (>25% of energy) diets. Nonetheless, diets high in protein, but either low or modest in carbohydrate, have resulted in greater weight losses than traditional low-fat diets. We speculate that it is the protein, and not carbohydrate, content that is important in promoting short-term weight loss and that this effect is likely due to increased satiety caused by increased dietary protein. It has been suggested that the increased satiety might help persons to be more compliant with a hypocaloric diet and achieve greater weight loss. The current evidence, combined with the need to meet all nutrient requirements, suggests that hypocaloric weight-loss diets should be moderate in carbohydrate (35% to 50% of energy), moderate in fat (25% to 35% of energy), and protein should contribute 25% to 30% of energy intake. More studies of the efficacy of weight-loss and weight-maintenance diets that address protein content are needed. In addition, controlled studies of total energy expenditure or physical activity measured under free-living conditions that directly compare high-protein diets with those containing low and moderate carbohydrate content should also be performed.

    PMID: 15867892 [PubMed - in process]

  24. Their traditional low-fat diet is not a 40/40/20. Most of the metabolic advantages are from a higher protein intake due to its thermic properties, not the low carbohydrate intake.

    Now when you incorporate exercise (especially resistance training) the carbohydrates becomes an imporant factor.

    You also have to take into account the difference in metabolism from an obese subject compared to a lean active one. In any case that study really doesn't say much either way.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  25. Bobo, regardless of the right answer in the low-carb debate, I wouldn't bring Lyle into this... The man is not what most bodybuilders want to be. He does things like suggest on carbing up on pop tarts in his book. His side in this debate solely depends on what new diet book he's trying to pimp out. Plus, anyone who has seen pictures of the guy has to wonder whether to follow his advice. Sorry, but writing a book about ketogenic diets like it's the best thing since sliced bread (no pun intended), only to bash ketogenic diets when his new book comes out... coincidence?


    In terms of studies to show that there is no metabolic advantage, there are also studies to show that there are.

    by: Harvard School of Public Health.

    Reported: American Association for the Study of
    Obesity, October 16, 2003

    Who participated: 21 overweight volunteers.

    Two groups were randomly assigned to either lowfat or
    low-carb diets with 1,500 calories for women and 1,800
    for men; a third group was also low-carb but got an
    extra 300 calories a day.

    Method: All the food was prepared at a restaurant in
    Cambridge, Massachusetts. Note that most earlier
    studies including the above Study #1 simply gave out
    diet plans.

    So in this study, dieters were given dinner and a
    bedtime snack as well as breakfast and lunch for the
    next day, which made the setting a carefully
    controlled one. Foods were mostly fish, chicken,
    salads, vegetables and unsaturated oils. Red meats and
    saturated fats were limited (as opposed to traditional
    Atkins menus.)

    All meals looked similar but were cooked to different
    recipes. The low-carb meals were 5% carbs, 15%
    protein, 65% fat. The low fat group got 55%
    carbohydrate, 15% protein, 30% fat.

    Results:

    1. All dieters lost weight, but those on low carb diet
    lost more than the low fat group -- even while consuming
    MORE calories:

    - Group on lower-cal, low-carb diet lost an average of 23
    lbs.
    - Group on same-calories low-fat diet lost an average of
    17 lbs.
    - Group on extra 300 calories, low-carb diet lost an
    average of 20 lbs.

    2. Over the course of the study, the group of low carb
    dieters who got an extra 300 calories a day consumed extra 25,000
    calories. That should have added up to
    about seven pounds. But for some reason, it did not.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You'll see that protein is the same in both cases... 15%, so one cannot pinpoint the metabolic advantage stemming from protein. I agree with you, Bobo, in the fact that encorporating resistance training makes this a different story, as well as whether or not subjects are obese, HOWEVER, whether or not ketogenic diets give metabolic advantages should be independent to these facts, when all other factors are held the same.

    Not taking either side in this... I'm currently on a CKD and questioning the validity of it. Just trying to fish out the right answers.
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