I have finally decided to go keto

Rictor33 · 02-24-2003, 11:59 PM

I have been bulking forever, and 20% of that bulking time was me being ****ing lazy and stressed. I am up at around 214, but my bodyfat sucks **** its like 17-18%. I have love handles and they suck bad, I have decided to go on a keto diet to cut up hardcore. I just want to lose fat, but not too much weight, I have a feeling im going to dip below 200 before I notice any leanness developing. Overall I feel I need to do this diet, I wasnt taking care of myself properly ala boozing and smoking weed and it took a toll on my fat and cholesterol levels. Hopefully after a few months of this diet il beable to hit the transdermal 1-test/4-ad with dmso in it and bulk back up to a leaner 205 or so lbs. My diet will consist of 2500 cal/day in the meats/cheeses/fat department with some lettuce and brocoli as well as my supplements like flax oil, fish oil pills, liver tabs and mvs. This includes 1 carb up day where I will eat some pasta etc. The question I have is since this diet is high in fats, will it **** with my cholesterol levels? and will I lose like tons of weight? being 185 isnt bad, I just want to maintain some of the size I have put on.

Matthew D · 02-25-2003, 12:07 AM

Have at it Rictor.. I am getting on the cutting band wagon myself.. hit the cardio..

Rictor33 · 02-25-2003, 12:14 AM

I have reasonably high cholesterol atm, it's both hereditary and ph induced, however ive been off the ph's for 3 weeks so it should be lowered a bit by now. I am just hoping this is safe for me to go on right now.

Biggs · 02-25-2003, 12:25 AM

yep, youll lose weight. shouldnt lose muscle really, maybe alter your training around, but I haven't had any problems at all. not counting water flux etc on carb ups I am losing 2lbs weekly, which is about as fast as I would want to do it. also, aside from a little inital lack of energy (popping xennies but eca never did **** for me, no jittery no added energy) I didn't feel a damn thing from switching over, so it shouldn't be a problem. just go slow and drink that ****ing water... as far as cholesterol, I wouldn't worry about it, but perhaps Bobo or someone more knowledgable could offer some insight

ReDCuBiN · 02-25-2003, 11:54 AM

If you do go Keto, what about post-workout? There is no problem with consuming really low carbs after that?

Well some loss I imagine cant be stopped, but not a huge loss is what I am asking.

Biggs · 02-25-2003, 11:57 AM

post workout carbs are absolutely essential, making a bodybuilding keto diet something like a cross between CKD and TKD, in that immediately following your workout, you'd ideally want to take in high GI carbs. this does not affect keto, nor does it factor into your daily carb totals. look around here, as I'm fairly certain this issue has been covered pretty well in other threads

ReDCuBiN · 02-25-2003, 12:06 PM

Ye you're right, I just got finished reading the stickys.

Thanks man.

sage · 02-25-2003, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biggin
post workout carbs are absolutely essential, making a bodybuilding keto diet something like a cross between CKD and TKD, in that immediately following your workout, you'd ideally want to take in high GI carbs. this does not affect keto, nor does it factor into your daily carb totals. look around here, as I'm fairly certain this issue has been covered pretty well in other threads

bobo and JB feels strongly regarding high/low GI carb source for post workouts....there's an active thread which im following to possibly try out a lowGI carb post workout (given you have a sufficient pre-workout meal. interesting....Sage

Draven · 02-25-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biggin
post workout carbs are absolutely essential, making a bodybuilding keto diet something like a cross between CKD and TKD, in that immediately following your workout, you'd ideally want to take in high GI carbs. this does not affect keto, nor does it factor into your daily carb totals. look around here, as I'm fairly certain this issue has been covered pretty well in other threads

There seems to be a big rift on this topic in the CKD community. Some say you should only have the carbs from leafy greens and the hidden carbs found in foods and should be under 30g a day(BlindFaith comes to mind here). The exception being the post workout drink at the start of your refeed after your depletion workout, but not during the week. I'm really confused on this as you are saying we should be taking in a small amount of carbs post workout during the week while trying to stay in ketosis, correct?

Biggs · 02-25-2003, 01:13 PM

um... YEP

... the theory being that taking in 30 or more grams of dextrose with a whey shake post workout will, as it is absorbed very quickly, replenish muscle glycogen. this doesn't affect ketosis at all (or shouldn't really). fructose is the one to avoid, as it is used primarily by the liver as I understand it. this is exactly what you're trying to avoid on keto, but as we are bodybuilders and not desk jockeys the post workout shake is vital on this type of diet or you'll lose much muscle from what I've seen. the experts should have a better answer for you.

Draven · 02-25-2003, 01:20 PM

Hmmm, ok. Well I don't have a problem with that, there just seems to be a big divde on that issue. I believe BlindFaith (I could be wrong) says that as long as you have a post workout shake, without fats, just whey, that that will be enough to spare the breakdown of muscle proteins (but Chi_town says the opposite, which I find amusing as they are both mods over at c-k-d.com). I personally in the past have always used a post workout carb drink and only recently stopped based on the Lyle Macdonalds(sp?) recommendations for the CKD diet. Perhaps I will incorporate some carbs next week if I find I'm losing LBM at the end of this week.

Thanks for the reply biggin.

wyatt · 02-25-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biggin
um... YEP ... the theory being that taking in 30 or more grams of dextrose with a whey shake post workout will, as it is absorbed very quickly, replenish muscle glycogen. this doesn't affect ketosis at all (or shouldn't really). fructose is the one to avoid, as it is used primarily by the liver as I understand it. this is exactly what you're trying to avoid on keto, but as we are bodybuilders and not desk jockeys the post workout shake is vital on this type of diet or you'll lose much muscle from what I've seen. the experts should have a better answer for you.

So my post workout drink of 30g carbs from grape juice and 30g whey is not a good blend. I take it that using 30g dextrose is better. Is this the same as simple sugar that I used to add to my oatmeal?

Draven · 02-25-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wyatt
Is this the same as simple sugar that I used to add to my oatmeal?

No table sugar is a mixture of Glucose and Fructose, and you don't want fructose. Get yourself some pure Maltodextrin or Dextrose for carb dinks. The only time Fructose is good is just before your depletion workout on your refeed day.

**Yukon Cornelius** · 02-25-2003, 03:50 PM

I think post workout carbs are a must no matter what type of diet you do. I know some recommend just straight whey but most of that will get converted into glucose anyway so its a waste to take it straight without a carb source. Your body is starving for nutrients and will utilize just about anything you throw in your shake. I've gone as high as 70g of oats (post workout) and still remained in ketosis. I would stay away from large quantities of high GI carbs. If you must use them, go for around 30g tops. I don't think they are necessary. The combination of protein added to a low GI carb source creates a high enough insulin spike to facilitate muscle recovery.

Sheesh · 02-25-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rictor33
I have reasonably high cholesterol atm, it's both hereditary and ph induced, however ive been off the ph's for 3 weeks so it should be lowered a bit by now. I am just hoping this is safe for me to go on right now.

If anything, this diet will improve your cholesterol profiles significantly, so YES it's safe for you to do.

**jweave23** · 02-25-2003, 03:59 PM

I agree that at least 30 to maybe even 70 grams of carbs are necessary post workout, but I am not convinced they need to be high GI at all. I agree with Bobo that the combo of whey and low GI (maybe 30-50g would work) should give a high enough insulin spike, and won't risk throwing you out of ketosis. When I've done keto, I did 40 grams whey and 40 grams oats, worked well for me.

Draven · 02-25-2003, 04:15 PM

Ok, well I'll give it a shot....only problem is I hate oats.

I'll have to find something else. Maybe I'll try some Malto or Dex and see if it knocks me out. If not, it's just more convinient for me to add that to my shake.

Thanks again guys.

SCORPIO · 02-25-2003, 04:38 PM

Right, I remember reading finessmans keto articles over at bb.com where he suggests taking 40gr whey....30gr carbs during keto. The advice given above is absolutely right....the body is starving for nutrients to replenish muscle stores, so the 30gr of casbs will not throw you out of ketosis.

Also......yes, the keto diet also lowers your bad cholesterol because the liver is involved and the absence of carbs.....insulin spikes.....glycogen....ect someone more knowledgeable will better explain.

Rictor33 · 02-25-2003, 05:42 PM

Ok you guys are great. Just after I finished my tricep/abs day at home ( I have a decent home gym and I work out at my gym as well ) I looked on here looking for info on a post workout drink and what would be acceptable while on a keto diet, wow I found it fast. So just to clarify this, Is lean mass matrix by prolab an ok post workout shake, it has 40g of carbs and 5g of dietary fiber in it. I dumped some flax into it as well.