Low Carb too Long?

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  1. I put 2T of butter and 2T of MCT oil in my 4am coffee.

    I've been experimenting with 16hr fast/ 8hr feed window. I was reading about how eating pure fat does not interrupt the fasting state the way carbs and protein do. So last meal at 630pm, "bulletproof" coffee at 4am, then start the feed window around 1030 am.
    But with low thyroid levels and pre diabetic state, it doesn't seem to matter because fat loss has stalled. Carbs make me gain fat extremely easy, but restricting carbs only make me lose fat to a certain point before stalling.

    But I am enjoying y'alls discussion. I believe that in a properly functioning body, and from years of experimenting on myself for what it's worth, Carb restriction should be balanced with Carb replenishment once a week or 10 days depending on training intensity.'


    EDIT.... The rinky-dink operation that did my bloodwork did not attach cortisol times to results. They also only sent me 3/4 results. But if I am normal, the results will be highest in the morning and lowest at night. It should be remedied this week or early next week. The results I have are:
    .26, .09, .08 (mcg/dL)


  2. Got levothyroxine T4 today. I'm going to give it to my rats and see how they respond. Very exciting
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    I've been experimenting with 16hr fast/ 8hr feed window. I was reading about how eating pure fat does not interrupt the fasting state the way carbs and protein do.
    this is correct. in fact, this idea is the entire basis of the ketogenic diet -- ketosis, in which fat is metabolized as a primary energy source, is also induced by starvation and/or long-term fasting.

    So last meal at 630pm, "bulletproof" coffee at 4am, then start the feed window around 1030 am.
    But with low thyroid levels and pre diabetic state, it doesn't seem to matter because fat loss has stalled. Carbs make me gain fat extremely easy, but restricting carbs only make me lose fat to a certain point before stalling.
    you should try to keep "shocking" your body.
    if you get to a point where fat loss is stalled, try a cheat day. ironically, being too strict about your diet can actually lead to the kind of stalling you're describing.
    as wise people say... "everything in moderation... including moderation itself"

    if you just can't progress, try HIIT/sprinting in your fasted state. ideally, you should do this when you are almost ready to start your feeding window -- HIIT taxes your muscles, so you're going to want to refuel not too long after.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Got levothyroxine T4 today. I'm going to give it to my rats and see how they respond. Very exciting
    do keep in mind, the effect of t4 supplementation will not be instantaneous. as tempting as it may be to clock this sort of thing day-by-day, you should wait until 2-3 weeks have passed to judge anything at all, and it's best to wait until 4 weeks before fully evaluating the dosage.

    by the way, although it is a pain in the ass to get a legitimate rx just for the sake of a rat or two, you should probably try. this is the kind of chemical for which quality control makes all the difference in the world, and only the pharmacy stuff is consistently going to be dosed as advertised.

    finally, your rx is going to tell you to take t4 first thing in the morning. this isn't the optimal way to take it; instead, if you are on an IF program, you should take t4, if possible, about 5-7 hours after you have started fasting.
    see, t4 is a drug that does its best work when the stomach is empty. if you use that timing, then 3 things will happen:
    1/ the 5-7 hours will allow you to reach a reasonably "empty stomach" state;
    2/ you'll still have about ten hours of fasting left for the t4 to work its magic;
    3/ you'll be asleep during most of the time, meaning that (obviously) there will be less temptation.

    by the way, if you do get t3/t4 combo therapy, note that t3 (liothyronine) is NOT AT ALL like t4.
    first of all, you shouldn't take t3 on an empty stomach; unlike t4, t3 should actually be taken with food.
    second, while t4 takes half a month or more to build up to the proper levels in your system, the effect of t3 is IMMEDIATE. this means two things: first, you'll feel it right away; second, if you go on vacation and leave your bottle of t3 behind, after a few days you may have an overwhelming urge to just get in bed and stay there.

  5. Oh most definitely, I was just testing on my rats because the anti aging doc is out of town until Monday. He told me that after he sees the cortisol levels with the 4 sampling times, he will be able to treat either 1) cortisol problems or 2) thyroid. I asked him how he likes to treat low thyroid and he said he prefers a product that contains ground up pig thyroid. I looked it up and the main name is Armour Thyroid. The studies I've read say it is superior to just a T4 drug since it treats all T compounds simultaneously. I also read that treating all the T's yields better/happier people than just T4.
    So hopefully tomorrow I will speak with him and we can proceed. I was just experimenting on the rats in the meantime.
    I also booked a new endocrinologist for later in the week as backup/plan b. I was quite miffed that the anti aging doc referred me to a nutritionist. I understand macronutrients. Eating perfectly will yield no results with low thyroid.
    Thanks again man. Really.
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  6. So definitely a problem here... I've been eating some carbs the last 2 weeks and I'm 212lbs. I was 197 before this experiment. Clearly have some hormone problems going on. That's not normal. Granted my strength is not decreasing at all but now I'm pissed off. It seems even the smallest amount of carbs/insulin makes me store fat immediately.

  7. do you understand why that is?

  8. My best guess is that fasting blood sugar is too high, so eating carbs will make it higher, trigger insulin response, and store as fat. But I'm sure thyroid plays into it somehow.

    So to answer your question, "no, not really"
    Can you offer some insight?

    On another note, this doc just called. He said my cortisol is too low, indicative of a crash. He said a crash comes from tooo much stress for too long. He recommended me to the nutritionist again and now to a relaxation specialist. This guy is a little too far out there for me. Hopefully the endo this week will tell me what I want to hear.

  9. you got some of it right. If insulin is too high it prohibits the stored fat to be burned for energy. It does that by supressing glucogon.
    Basically right now you have damage at cellular level. In this case the cell is divided into anaerobic and aerobic. Aerobic where the mythocandria resides, and most likely is shut down so very little energy is actually produced there. When the myhocandria shuts down to basically protect itself from the unecessary energy going into it will divert glucose into adipose fat.
    RIght now you are in methabolic syndrome. I wouldnt even bother with carbs until you look into adrenal fatigue. Cut back from the gym and concentrate on the diet/rest and see where the hormones are in respect to baseline.
    Thyroid could be a side effect of adrenal fatigue caused by severe dieting and exercise. If your resting glucose is high it is also a sign of cells receptors shuting down to protect cells from damage.
    THis entire process explains why you not burning fat for energy. Your body is way out of wack. This is one reason I tell ppl to ease out on the carbs consumption because when things go bad, glucose and the amount is debatable it will take to cause issues, will make it worse very quickly.

  10. your thyroid levels are fine. low carb diets are expected to lower t3 levels and this is fine.

    with your carb count at 50 grams and such a high protein intake you are most likely teetering in and out of ketosis. i would lower the carbs and the protein. up the fats a little if you want to fill in the calories. no need for any supplements or drugs. especially a thyroid supplement, stay far away.

    Quote Originally Posted by eluruguayo View Post
    dude, i just saw your labs. holy hypothyroid, batman -- you need to take levothyroxine, f***ing STAT.

    your t4 level is 0.9, compared to the laughable "normal" range of 0.8-1.8.
    see, this is one of those hormones for which the supposed “reference” range is just a joke. (for another such example, note that the “reference” range for free test starts at 250, which, for non-senior citizens, is actually well into the hypogonadal zone.)
    your t4 should be *at least* at the high end of that range, preferably a little higher. just monitor your TSH and make sure it doesn't drop to zero.

    your estradiol is also pretty high. consider an aromatase inhibitor -- those are normally part of PCT, but see if your doc will just give you an rx for one.
    in fact, you may just want to go ahead and run a "PCT" as though you had just finished a cycle, even if you haven't done a cycle. that should do a lot as far as correcting some of the hormonal imbalances.

    if you take care of these two factors, you should be chillin.

    also. go to a drugstore and spend a few bucks on the following.
    * vitamin D3. try to take 10,000 iu per day.
    * vitamin A. try to take 50,000 to 70,000 iu per day (that's going to be 6 to 9 softgels a day). this is going to do wonders for your immune system, and, in turn, all that stuff that your immune system governs indirectly. (a lot of stress, and resultant hormone levels, is simply due to an exhausted immune system. you may be surprised how much you can improve by just starting to pop 4-5 softgels of vitamin A when you wake up and then another 2-4 softgels in the evening.)
    * N-acetyl-cysteine ("NAC"). this is a bit harder to find, but you can always order it on the internet if you can't get it locally. good stuff for your lipid profile and mood, among MANY other things, if you are eating that kind of diet.

    god bless you, man, a lot of what you're going through sounds annoyingly familiar.

  11. so if you think it's adrenal fatigue, why have I had love handles for all my life? How does adrenal fatigue explain puberty at age 8? And how can I be 6" shorter than my brother?
    I'm not totally convinced that there isn't a thyroid problem... I definitely do appreciate all your collective input. This certainly seems more complicated than I could ever have imagined.
    2 more days until my (new) endo appt.

  12. im not saying you dont have other imbalances but from what you have explained adrenal fatique could be the cause at the moment which includes thyroid as well. That;s not limited to one hormone here, I would look into the entire system as a whole to get a true picture of what's going on.
    You also may want to look into cellular damage if your glucose has been high and your body keeps making insulin. High insulin tends to do a lot of damage over the years.

  13. Totally. I'm a mess, a 35 year old mess. Hopefully the next 35 I will be living in my prime.

    Thanks for all the insight. Stoked for the 2pm endo tomorrow. I hope he has scheduled a block of time for me.......

  14. Def brotha, you should be in your prime!
    I've helped my gf recover from a similar situation you are in, where a few meals would skyrocket her weight. Through diet, exercise and correct meds got her 3/4 to where she wants to be. Now she can eat normal and enjoy life than worry about her weight.
    It's def possible once you find the right balance.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Totally. I'm a mess, a 35 year old mess. Hopefully the next 35 I will be living in my prime.

    Thanks for all the insight. Stoked for the 2pm endo tomorrow. I hope he has scheduled a block of time for me.......
    Good luck man.

    Don't forget the more down-to-earth stuff, like vitamins A (50,000 to 75,000 IU/day, half first thing in the morning and the other half midway through the day) and B12 (5000 mcg first thing in the morning, then maybe some little later if you have a particularly long day).

  16. Will do. Thanks again for all your time so far. I will update this evening.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    So definitely a problem here... I've been eating some carbs the last 2 weeks and I'm 212lbs.
    alarming, to be sure, but more normal than you might think.
    this is basically the opposite of what happens when you first start on a lower-carb diet -- normally, most people starting on low(er)-carb, especially first-timers, will drop as much as 10-15 pounds in the first few days.
    see, medium- and especially high-carbohydrate diets -- or, more accurately, the hormonal changes that they produce, insulin and the like -- promote greater retention of water. also, it's possible that you just aren't as thirsty; in my experience, lower-carb diets, by being saltier and fattier, make me want to drink a lot more water. if you are experiencing the opposite when you eat carbohydrates, then that's another reason you might gain weight, since less water intake = more water retention.

    if you really want a controlled experiment, you can always take a diuretic for a couple of days and see whether you piss out most of the weight gain.
    personally i would just deal with it, since a gain of 10+ pounds in a week is obviously not “real” weight gain.

  18. the endo wants an MRI on my pituitary first. He also did an a1c blood test. He seemed like he's leaning towards Metformin. He said the low T4 but normal other thyroid levels may be a pituitary problem.

    and so it continues.

    hard to take medical advice from a 350 LB doctor though. WTF. I think I'm going back to the original endo. He didn't know about any of this when I originally went to get testoserone.

  19. I'm just going back to the only thing I knew worked somewhat. Super low carbs. For whatever reason, any carbs at all seem to have a multiplied effect for me. I'm wondering if at some point in my life I was type II diabetic, just undiagnosed. I guess technically I am not today but it makes me wonder.
    Thanks for all y'alls input. Apparently there's "nothing" wrong with me...even though there really is.

  20. Pituitary MRI today for what it's worth

  21. The email from the endo who looked at my pituitary MRI.

    Very small 1-2 mm area within pituitary consistent with a small microadenoma.
    No other treatment indicated. You should continue on the testosterone injections.


    so this probably explains the early puberty, migraines and vision loss, and love handles.

    awesome. no, not at all.

    so he says no treatment but he also hasn't seen my thyroid numbers. I guess I will show him my thyroid labs and hopefully find a way to lose the fat love handles.

  22. This is my first post in a long time. When I see threads this informative it reminds me how great this forum is.
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