Need A Eating Program

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  1. Need A Eating Program


    Im new to the whole fitness thing and would like to first get my eating under control: im 19 5'10" and roughley 185 pounds. Can someone help me out with some guidelines.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Icarus91
    Im new to the whole fitness thing and would like to first get my eating under control: im 19 5'10" and roughley 185 pounds. Can someone help me out with some guidelines.
    Cool man, welcome aboard. I am just going to give you a couple very general guidelines. How much you eat depends on what you want to do, if you want to gain muscle (bulk), or lower your body fat percentage and become ripped (cut). Would you say you have a lot of muscle definition right now, like you can see your abs and such?

    In general:

    ** 6-8 meals a day
    **at least 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight
    ** Drink at least a gallon of water a day
    ** Take a multi vitamin
    ** Eat clean foods like oatmeal, rice, chicken breasts, steak, broccoli, tuna, and avoid Fast food
    ** only supplement you might need in the begining is whey protein shakes after you workout, but don't worry about taking anything else just yet


    Hope this helps!!!
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  3. Learn the difference between high and low GI carbs. Eat low GI carbs throughout the day and high GI carbs after working out. Get yourself some whey protein mix (I like www.allthewhey.com), and stay away from saturated or trans fat. The number of calories you consume depends on your goals but the diet I prefer for cutting and bulking is about a 40/40/20 ratio of calories obtained from carbs, protein, and fat respectively. Remember that fat has 9 calories per gram and carbs and protien only have 4 calories per gram, so if you consumed 300 grams each of carbs and protein throughout the day you would only need 67 grams of fat to keep your calorie ratio correct (that'd be a 3000 calorie diet, BTW). Remember these carbs and fats are "healthy" carbs and fats. Meaning low GI carbs for the most part and mono or polyunsaturated fats (found in nuts, flax, natural peanut butter, etc), Any sugary high GI carbs (sugar is a good indicator of high GI) like sweets, deserts, and to an extent fruits and fruit juices, and also fast food should be kept under control or eliminated. Fruit has it's place post workout, IMHO, that's when I drink a lot of fruit juice.

    I could keep writing for hours but you will need to do your own research. When I joined the board I knew less than you and now I have no problem gaining muscle while constantly burning fat, simply by manipulating my diet. Learning how it all works is half the fun.

  4. Contact Bobo and sign up for his nutrition program.


    Click here!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/

  5. Quote Originally Posted by hypo
    Learn the difference between high and low GI carbs. Eat low GI carbs throughout the day and high GI carbs after working out. Get yourself some whey protein mix (I like www.allthewhey.com), and stay away from saturated or trans fat. The number of calories you consume depends on your goals but the diet I prefer for cutting and bulking is about a 40/40/20 ratio of calories obtained from carbs, protein, and fat respectively. Remember that fat has 9 calories per gram and carbs and protien only have 4 calories per gram, so if you consumed 300 grams each of carbs and protein throughout the day you would only need 67 grams of fat to keep your calorie ratio correct (that'd be a 3000 calorie diet, BTW). Remember these carbs and fats are "healthy" carbs and fats. Meaning low GI carbs for the most part and mono or polyunsaturated fats (found in nuts, flax, natural peanut butter, etc), Any sugary high GI carbs (sugar is a good indicator of high GI) like sweets, deserts, and to an extent fruits and fruit juices, and also fast food should be kept under control or eliminated. Fruit has it's place post workout, IMHO, that's when I drink a lot of fruit juice.

    I could keep writing for hours but you will need to do your own research. When I joined the board I knew less than you and now I have no problem gaining muscle while constantly burning fat, simply by manipulating my diet. Learning how it all works is half the fun.
    Good advice but from recent discussions on this board i dont think it is necessary to consume High GI carbs post workout, stick to your oats.
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  6. I will second that..

  7. Quote Originally Posted by BigCasino

    ** 6-8 meals a day
    **at least 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight
    ** Drink at least a gallon of water a day
    ** Take a multi vitamin
    ** Eat clean foods like oatmeal, rice, chicken breasts, steak, broccoli, tuna, and avoid Fast food
    Yeah! Take all the fun out of eating while you're at it

    I'm fairly sure that the 6-8 meals a day thing comes from the fact that when eating clean food, you would throw up if you tried to stuff it all down in 3 meals...

    LOL, it's funny to think that you can get to a point where cake/cookies/ice cream/mcdonalds are "dietary supplements" (I'm not joking about this either)!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Yeah! Take all the fun out of eating while you're at it

    I'm fairly sure that the 6-8 meals a day thing comes from the fact that when eating clean food, you would throw up if you tried to stuff it all down in 3 meals...
    Wrong!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by xXx
    Wrong!
    Ok there supersmart, lol!

    I've actually talked with lyle about this one a couple times, he's got some good research that refutes it pretty well - FYI. He has plenty of research that pretty clearly indicates that there's no real difference between results with 3 and 6 meals besides meal size. Just to toss out a niblet that I remmeber for ya, so you can go digging on pubmed:

    2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.

    There's plenty more but I'm lazy and it wouldn't change your behavior anyway so why bother wasting my time.

  10. It would be helpful if you gave us an idea of what your current goals are, your bw is not a specific indicator as you could be lean or fat at 185 depending on your build, previous activity levels, genetics and so forth. If your just looking to 'clean up' your diet than the basic guidelines noted would follow, if you are looking for specifics then more detail is needed.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Ok there supersmart, lol!

    2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.
    At least you knew the reason i said you were wrong without me explaining BTW are you a young woman

  12. Of course I knew the reason you said I was wrong - I'm well versed in all the bodybuilding myths...

    As for me being a young woman... Yes. A 270 lb young woman with a 400lb bench press! Now run before I rip your balls off and add them to my collection

    All jokes aside, the big difference between young women and bodybuidlers is the amounts of fuel required. The metabolic machinery is the same, though the hormonal mileau is significantly different - but that's not what we're talking about here.

    Anything you eat is going to take about 12 hours to fully digest, with the exception of liquids which are done in four. Larger meals with a mixture of fat, fiber, carbs and protein are going to digest and be absorbed more slowly, thus a longer, more prolonged nutrient spike. Food has a thermic effect this is true, but that's fairly constant and you get the same effect whether you eat a big meal or two small ones.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Tahq
    It would be helpful if you gave us an idea of what your current goals are, your bw is not a specific indicator as you could be lean or fat at 185 depending on your build, previous activity levels, genetics and so forth. If your just looking to 'clean up' your diet than the basic guidelines noted would follow, if you are looking for specifics then more detail is needed.
    yep!What are your goals?Type of lifting, for mass, endurance,power etc....

  14. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Ok there supersmart, lol!

    I've actually talked with lyle about this one a couple times, he's got some good research that refutes it pretty well - FYI. He has plenty of research that pretty clearly indicates that there's no real difference between results with 3 and 6 meals besides meal size. Just to toss out a niblet that I remmeber for ya, so you can go digging on pubmed:

    2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.

    There's plenty more but I'm lazy and it wouldn't change your behavior anyway so why bother wasting my time.

    Could you please post some more because I have plenty that state otherwise.

    Here is one.

    Effects of meal frequency on body composition during weight control in boxers.

    Iwao S, Mori K, Sato Y.

    First Division of Health Promotion Science, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Japan.

    The effects of meal frequency on changes in body composition by food restriction were investigated. Twelve boxers were divided between a two meals day-1 group (the 2M group) and a six meals day-1 group (the 6M group). Both groups ingested 5.02 MJ (1200 kcal) day-1 for 2 weeks. Although there was no difference in change of body weight by food restriction between the two groups, the decrease in lean body mass (LBM) was significantly greater in the 2M group than in the 6M group. The decrease in urinary 3-methylhistidine/creatinine was significantly greater in the 6M group than in the 2M group. These results suggest that the lower frequency of meal intake leads to a greater myoprotein catabolism even if the same diet is consumed.
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  15. Heh, you're gonna make me go digging around on lyle's board for the refs eh...

    Ok, hold on

  16. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo

    All jokes aside, the big difference between young women and bodybuidlers is the amounts of fuel required. The metabolic machinery is the same, though the hormonal mileau is significantly different - but that's not what we're talking about here.

    Anything you eat is going to take about 12 hours to fully digest, with the exception of liquids which are done in four. Larger meals with a mixture of fat, fiber, carbs and protein are going to digest and be absorbed more slowly, thus a longer, more prolonged nutrient spike. Food has a thermic effect this is true, but that's fairly constant and you get the same effect whether you eat a big meal or two small ones.
    1. THe hormonal profile is quite different and so is the "metabolic machinery" because of this hormonal difference (increased estrogne, GH, etc...)

    2. No, anything you eat does not take 12 hours to ingest. I don't know where you got that from.

    3. The thermic effect of food is MUCH greater and exhausts many more calories when small, high protein meals are ingested. Comparing normal diets with FDA recommendations of protein will not show the differences between normal people and a bodybuilder consuming an excess of 1.5g/kg of bodyweight. Most studies are based on those factors so looking at the normal feeding patterns of woman is hardly conclusive at all.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Heh, you're gonna make me go digging around on lyle's board for the refs eh...

    Ok, hold on
    I have already seen those and they are not conclusive at all.

    You need studies that compare low and high frequency diets that are high in protein since protein is most thermogenic nutrient. You also need studes that take into account a very large increase in activity (bodybuilders) that reuqires larger thena normal protein intake.

    Every study that accounts for catabolic activity shows that an increased meal frequency with adequate amounts of protein decreases catabolic activity compared to low meal frequency with the same amounts of protein over a 24 hour peroid. It is also present in women.

    Hum Nutr Clin Nutr. 1984 Jan;38(1):31-8. Related Articles, Links

    Feeding frequency and nitrogen balance in weight-reducing obese women.

    Antoine JM, Rohr R, Gagey MJ, Bleyer RE, Debry G.

    In a prospective trial, ten obese women, each her own reference, ate a 1200 kcal/d slimming diet in six meals a day compared with three meals a day during two 14-d periods. Loss of weight was slightly greater during the six-meal periods when loss of nitrogen was lower and thus loss of lean mass was also lower.

    Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial
    * Randomized Controlled Trial


    PMID: 6693294 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    1. THe hormonal profile is quite different and so is the "metabolic machinery".

    2. No, anything you eat does not take 12 hours to ingest. I don't know where you got that from.

    3. The thermic effect of food is MUCH greater and exhausts many more calories when small, high protein meals are ingested. Comparing normal diets with FDA recommendations of protein will not show the differences between normal people and a bodybuilder consuming an excess of 1.5g/kg of bodyweight. Most studies are based on those factors so looking at the normal feeding patterns of woman is hardly conclusive at all.
    Um, given that food will spend up to 4 hours in the stomach alone, then easily another 6 in the small intestines (and at that point there is still some minor digestion which takes place in the large intestines) I think my comment was valid. I exempted liquids, which process much more quickly of course. You can google that one easily enough.

    Gotta beg to differ on the metabolic machinery comment. Hormones are different, sure, and this certainly causes *SOME* changes on a macroscopic level, but protein metabolism is *BASIC*. That's like saying women don't use the TCA cycle - that damned developmental pattern is nearly universal among life on earth. It just sounds silly.

    Yes, the thermic effect of protein is the highest of all the macronutrients, however I've never seen anything to indicate that small, spaced out protein meals provide a greater thermic effect than larger meals.

    As always, if you've got some pubmed goods I'm happy to see them. I know you collect those things like bottle caps.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I have already seen those and they are not conclusive at all.

    You need studies that compare low and high frequency diets that are high in protein since protein is most thermogenic nutrient. You also need studes that take into account a very large increase in activity (bodybuilders) that reuqires larger thena normal protein intake.

    Every study that accounts for catabolic activity shows that an increased meal frequency with adequate amounts of protein decreases catabolic activity compared to low meal frequency with the same amounts of protein over a 24 hour peroid.
    >.<

    Give up the goods if you've got them.

  20. I already did, twice.

    You seem to worried about weight loss. I'm worried about FAT loss while maintaing LBM.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Um, given that food will spend up to 4 hours in the stomach alone, then easily another 6 in the small intestines (and at that point there is still some minor digestion which takes place in the large intestines) I think my comment was valid. I exempted liquids, which process much more quickly of course. You can google that one easily enough.

    Gotta beg to differ on the metabolic machinery comment. Hormones are different, sure, and this certainly causes *SOME* changes on a macroscopic level, but protein metabolism is *BASIC*. That's like saying women don't use the TCA cycle - that damned developmental pattern is nearly universal among life on earth. It just sounds silly.

    Yes, the thermic effect of protein is the highest of all the macronutrients, however I've never seen anything to indicate that small, spaced out protein meals provide a greater thermic effect than larger meals.

    As always, if you've got some pubmed goods I'm happy to see them. I know you collect those things like bottle caps.
    Where do you get this from because its completly wrong. There is NO set rate for ANY food. I don't "google" things. I've learned it in class and the host of reference texts I have sitting here right next to me. By the time it reaches the small intestine its not really "FOOD" anymore. Its chyme and depending on nutrient composition takes various times to absorb. So givin these set times is ridiculous.

    As far as "metabolic machinery" (whatever that means) there are many differences in rates and total protein turnover which causes either increases protein synthesis and/or increased nitrogen retention. Your general statements comparing weigtht loss in women who do not exercise is ridiculous. THe amounts of rates for men and women is highly different. If you talking about the overall physiology then you could say its relatively the same but the rates and amoutns are completely different.
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  22. Don't know about the study with obese women, but in the boxer study the daily protein intake was 60g (from a liquid source even)? I'm guessing the fat girls didn't get much protein either... when I get down that low I'll be sure to spread it out. Oh, if you have any dietary macronutient composition studies done on advanced strength athletes which are objective with n>1, I'd dig getting a chance to look at them...

    I'm more worried about strength loss than anything else If I couldn't at least rep out 315 on the bench I'd feel like a ****ing *****, lol

  23. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    U

    Yes, the thermic effect of protein is the highest of all the macronutrients, however I've never seen anything to indicate that small, spaced out protein meals provide a greater thermic effect than larger meals.

    .
    That is because most studies use FDA recommendations of protein intake wihch for most men is around 60-80g/day. Now try tripling that and you will see a difference. There is a reason high protein diets show increased thermogenic effects.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo

    I'm more worried about strength loss than anything else If I couldn't at least rep out 315 on the bench I'd feel like a ****ing *****, lol

    Almost 90% of my clients INCREASE strenght while cutting.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    Don't know about the study with obese women, but in the boxer study the daily protein intake was 60g (from a liquid source even)? I'm guessing the fat girls didn't get much protein either... when I get down that low I'll be sure to spread it out. Oh, if you have any dietary macronutient composition studies done on advanced strength athletes which are objective with n>1, I'd dig getting a chance to look at them...

    Il
    The study on boxers is more significant than your study with young women. They have increased acitivty and will correlate much more to bodybuilders than your study. And both show less catabolic activity with spaced out meals. I'm not worried about metabolic rate, even though I still think it is increased when those small meals are high in protein (which will increase thermogenic effects). If you retain more muscle, you will many more advantages in the long run in terms of fat burning.

    I can find a million studies supporting your claim on metabolic rate and that it has no change but it doens't take into effect the almost triple amouint of protein intake most members here consume, and it does not take into account increased activity. You have to look at the whole picture and not just take studies out of context and state "there is no difference between low or high meal frequency". It simply isn't true.
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