How long can you cut?

  1. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    How long can you cut?


    Heard in a few places that being on a cut for more than 12 weeks is a bad thing.

    I've been on a cutting diet since November of last year. Got up to 303lbs and felt horrid.

    Since then I've lost 60 lbs and have gained substantial strength, but am still sitting at 23% BF, which is unhealthy to say the least.

    What scientific reasons could y'all give me to stop what I'm doing???

    I've taken two scheduled week-long breaks to avoid overtraining and have lost this weight by intelligent means. No fad diet stories here, no low carb ****, just 500-1000 calorie deficits with a weekly chest meal, rocking 20/40/40 fats/carbs/protein daily. I lift heavy also.

    Can my cut last until I'm at a healthy BF percentage???

  2. Elite Member
    hvactech's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9,573
    Rep Power
    2717713
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    2.68%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    if it were me, id try a recomp.....i had a great article on prolonged dieting but cant find it...
    LG Sciences forum representative
    www.lgsciences.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/249846-lg-sciences-would.html
  3. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech
    if it were me, id try a recomp.....i had a great article on prolonged dieting but cant find it...
    What would you consider recomp calorie intake in regards to a person's BMR?

    And what's your version of recomp?
    Trying to add lean mass along with some fat loss?
    •   
       

  4. Elite Member
    hvactech's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9,573
    Rep Power
    2717713
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    2.68%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    slightly above maintenance cals, correct..decrease bf % while increasing lean mass...
    LG Sciences forum representative
    www.lgsciences.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/249846-lg-sciences-would.html
  5. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech
    slightly above maintenance cals, correct..decrease bf % while increasing lean mass...
    Is this fat loss achieved by cardio post workout and/or fasted cardio in the AM but still lifting heavy and eating more than maintenance?
  6. Elite Member
    hvactech's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9,573
    Rep Power
    2717713
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    2.68%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    when i attempt my recomp here soon my cardio protocol will be fasted cardio, i use a circuit style training regime so i have a great elevated heart rate and a good sweat through out....
    LG Sciences forum representative
    www.lgsciences.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/249846-lg-sciences-would.html
  7. Senior Member
    soontobbeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,812
    Rep Power
    2249
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    30.8%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    people suggest not to ''diet'' for too long because of calorie restriction's effect on hormones.

    t3,test,and leptin decrease in a prolonged state of calorie restriction.

    a simple remedy would be calorie cycling. ssbackwards recently made a thread describing his dietetic strategy. he 'cuts' for 9 months out of the year. jan to may and aug to dec , i believe.

    lyle mcdonald actually posted a study where men were put on a diet that was 50% of their TDEE and continued to lose weight till they reached 5% BF. the decrease in metabolism was still overcome by the calorie deficit.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
  8. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3028
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    97.52%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    people suggest not to ''diet'' for too long because of calorie restriction's effect on hormones.

    t3,test,and leptin decrease in a prolonged state of calorie restriction.

    a simple remedy would be calorie cycling. ssbackwards recently made a thread describing his dietetic strategy. he 'cuts' for 9 months out of the year. jan to may and aug to dec , i believe.

    lyle mcdonald actually posted a study where men were put on a diet that was 50% of their TDEE and continued to lose weight till they reached 5% BF. the decrease in metabolism was still overcome by the calorie deficit.
    correct, that infact is my dietary strategy.

    What happens with prolonged dieting id a decrease in leptin. Which when depressed too long over time will increase AgRP (thyroid regulating). This means although dieting, your thyroid levels, mainly rT3 rise. Along with this rise theres a concurrent rise in NPY (hunger hormone), and some increase in Ghrelin. This can be both good and bad. Ghrelin is a GH secretogue good, but wont help much if you over eat due to this hormone. Over eating with a raises AgRP can cause problems in itself.

    Best way to counter all this is to supplement with a good calcium supplement. Another thing you would want to do is not be in too much of a caloric deficit too many days in a row. 500-1000 calories is A LOT. I would recommend, as i do to many of my clients is 2 days a week of a high calorie, this is mainly for low carbers though.

    However in your case, i would rearrange the way you work you macronutrients in the sense that your only carbs come from intra workout and pre bed. Yes, pre bed.

    Pre bed carbohydrates can increase leptin (which will aid in sleep) and will aid in the increase in fat buring hormones at the times your not going to be eating...

    But im not recommending anything other then a small sweet potato or bowl of cereal.

    as far as cheat meals, sure have one a week.... i like it early in the morning after a workout. Then i dont eat again till dinner.

    hope this somewhat helps.
  9. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards

    correct, that infact is my dietary strategy.

    What happens with prolonged dieting id a decrease in leptin. Which when depressed too long over time will increase AgRP (thyroid regulating). This means although dieting, your thyroid levels, mainly rT3 rise. Along with this rise theres a concurrent rise in NPY (hunger hormone), and some increase in Ghrelin. This can be both good and bad. Ghrelin is a GH secretogue good, but wont help much if you over eat due to this hormone. Over eating with a raises AgRP can cause problems in itself.

    Best way to counter all this is to supplement with a good calcium supplement. Another thing you would want to do is not be in too much of a caloric deficit too many days in a row. 500-1000 calories is A LOT. I would recommend, as i do to many of my clients is 2 days a week of a high calorie, this is mainly for low carbers though.

    However in your case, i would rearrange the way you work you macronutrients in the sense that your only carbs come from intra workout and pre bed. Yes, pre bed.

    Pre bed carbohydrates can increase leptin (which will aid in sleep) and will aid in the increase in fat buring hormones at the times your not going to be eating...

    But im not recommending anything other then a small sweet potato or bowl of cereal.

    as far as cheat meals, sure have one a week.... i like it early in the morning after a workout. Then i dont eat again till dinner.

    hope this somewhat helps.
    I've never heard of leptin an ghrelin - gonna get on the research grind early this morning.

    I have at least one, sometimes two cheats a week, so 5 out of 7 I'm in a calorific deficit. Those deficit days I still consume around 2400-2600 calories, I just burn about 1k in the gym.

    I don't see how eating a huge meal in the AM and not eating until dinner on a cheat day is beneficial though.

    500-1000 calorie deficit isn't to be considered a lot in my eyes. That's a good 1-2lbs lost in a week. I've never hit a whole week where I've been 1000 under every day either.

    Not discounting your knowledge, just would like further explanation if possible my friend. Thanks for chiming in.
  10. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3028
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    97.52%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Away View Post
    I've never heard of leptin an ghrelin - gonna get on the research grind early this morning.

    I have at least one, sometimes two cheats a week, so 5 out of 7 I'm in a calorific deficit. Those deficit days I still consume around 2400-2600 calories, I just burn about 1k in the gym.

    I don't see how eating a huge meal in the AM and not eating until dinner on a cheat day is beneficial though.

    500-1000 calorie deficit isn't to be considered a lot in my eyes. That's a good 1-2lbs lost in a week. I've never hit a whole week where I've been 1000 under every day either.

    Not discounting your knowledge, just would like further explanation if possible my friend. Thanks for chiming in.
    at 240lbs, maintence for you on a workout day is more than likely closer to 3300 calories (to maintain). therefore if your buring 1000 cals in the workout, eating 2600 than in reality your really hitting 1600 calories consumed for the day which is a 50% caloric deficit based on maintence... follow me? and if your eat a cheat meal it calories will be higher. But being that low so often will drop leptin and cause plataeuing amongst other things. and if you do it too long without a break itll take about 3 days to get leptin levels back to normal at a +70% maintence level
  11. New Member
    zebediah23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    14
    Rep Power
    43
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    53.75%

    I'm 6'2, on October 1, 2011 I weighed 325lbs. I started eating between 1600-1800 calories a day. Also, I began working out for 2 hours a day, 6 days a week (lift for an hour, cardio for an hour). Today, March 29, 2012, I weigh 228lbs. I've lost 97lbs in 6 months & have yet to plateau. Is this rapid weight loss healthy? I don't know. What I do know is that my back & knees no longer hurt constantly, I sleep better, have more energy, am stronger & faster than I've ever been. BTW, I'm 33 years old. Just wanted to share my experience.
  12. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards

    at 240lbs, maintence for you on a workout day is more than likely closer to 3300 calories (to maintain). therefore if your buring 1000 cals in the workout, eating 2600 than in reality your really hitting 1600 calories consumed for the day which is a 50% caloric deficit based on maintence... follow me? and if your eat a cheat meal it calories will be higher. But being that low so often will drop leptin and cause plataeuing amongst other things. and if you do it too long without a break itll take about 3 days to get leptin levels back to normal at a +70% maintence level
    All the calculations I've seen by using BMR calculators puts my maintenance at 2300. I'm not 240 rock solid - I'm 240 with 23% BF. Do you have a better way to gauge BMR? If so, hook that **** up!
  13. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by zebediah23
    I'm 6'2, on October 1, 2011 I weighed 325lbs. I started eating between 1600-1800 calories a day. Also, I began working out for 2 hours a day, 6 days a week (lift for an hour, cardio for an hour). Today, March 29, 2012, I weigh 228lbs. I've lost 97lbs in 6 months & have yet to plateau. Is this rapid weight loss healthy? I don't know. What I do know is that my back & knees no longer hurt constantly, I sleep better, have more energy, am stronger & faster than I've ever been. BTW, I'm 33 years old. Just wanted to share my experience.
    That is absolutely amazing my dude. If you're worried about that kind of weight loss just ask your doctor to see how you're doing health wise. I bet you'd be happily surprised !
  14. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3028
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    97.52%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    More than likely you didn't calculate an activity factor in your BMRI use BW x 12-14 which is closest to miffleon Jeor. Doesn't matter at rock solid. If you go by LBM it'll drop cals too low. If your eat at maintence and get the deficit from training, its best, and more likely less to cause muscle loss, and issues with leptin
  15. New Member
    Go Away's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    210
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    25.3%

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards
    More than likely you didn't calculate an activity factor in your BMRI use BW x 12-14 which is closest to miffleon Jeor. Doesn't matter at rock solid. If you go by LBM it'll drop cals too low. If your eat at maintence and get the deficit from training, its best, and more likely less to cause muscle loss, and issues with leptin
    What I had tended to do when I first started this journey was eat maintenance and exercise to go below, then eat to be under deficit on off days. Now that my metabolism has gone up I've gone more to eating maintenance daily like you just mentioned because I'm too hungry to not eat.

    I just never thought my maintenance would be as high as 3300 though...
  16. Senior Member
    ssbackwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    3028
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    97.52%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Away View Post
    What I had tended to do when I first started this journey was eat maintenance and exercise to go below, then eat to be under deficit on off days. Now that my metabolism has gone up I've gone more to eating maintenance daily like you just mentioned because I'm too hungry to not eat.

    I just never thought my maintenance would be as high as 3300 though...
    i was going by the high number in reality its around 2880-3360
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-03-2011, 06:30 PM
  2. Schwells pct for a LONG LONG LONG LONG cycle
    By schwellington in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-19-2011, 12:48 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-28-2011, 04:08 PM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-21-2011, 10:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in