The Cause of Obesity

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by steve0003
    That's what I'm talking about.

    We usually see overweight people eating more than a skinny person. If it registers in our minds at all, then we usually just explain it to ourselves by thinking, "Yeah, it makes sense they're gonna eat more than I would eat, look at the huge body they're maintaining."

    But that's precisely the problem. They stay overweight because their intake has gradually adjusted upwards enough to maintain that huge body.
    Yep, its like they're eating with their eyes first, which is sad. What makes them want to eat that much I can't explain, maybe its psychological. Sadly, in America we have that "more is better" mentality, so ppl just eat more and more, and not for satiety.


  2. IMHO portion control in our diets is a huge under-appreciated part of the story. I am a firm believer that some people are destined to be thin genetically and others are not. But I can't deny what I also see - every single overweight person I know eats 2x as much food as the skinny ones.
    Hi Steve,

    People eat more because they are hungry. If you are genetically predisposed for obesity, you will be more hungry and you will eat more than someone who is not.

    And most obese people tend to put more weight on compared to a lean person for the same amount of food. Their metabolism is way slower than the lean.
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  3. I agree that the playing field is not level in terms of maintaining a lean figure. Different people have different natural predispositions to be skinny or fat.

    I think the portion control thing is a major part of what fuels the obesity predisposition. The body's natural signals to stop eating just don't work the same way in obese people.

    I have noticed that overweight people also seem to get more lethargic after eating and want to eat more after exercising too. I can really notice the difference between them and my skinnier friends & family. IMHO the research is on target, overweight people do seem to react differently to caloric intake and exertion at the biological level.

  4. I am just amazed at how people can just think that obese people are obese because they just overeat and sit around. But all the lean people in the world are just consciously eating less and moving more!

    Our weight has been moving up since the 1960's, but this took a steep turn in the 80 and 90's. Some say it could be the lack of activity, increase in food availability, decrease in smoking and so forth. But mind you we are talking about the mean increase in weight in the whole population. We have to look in which category the weight is going up. It would be as stupid as aying we are getting richer as a whole, when only the rich is getting richer.

    The prevalence data is misleading if people aren't sure about how it works. A small increase in weight is enough to shift a lot of people into the obese category.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal
    I am just amazed at how people can just think that obese people are obese because they just overeat and sit around. But all the lean people in the world are just consciously eating less and moving more!

    Our weight has been moving up since the 1960's, but this took a steep turn in the 80 and 90's. Some say it could be the lack of activity, increase in food availability, decrease in smoking and so forth. But mind you we are talking about the mean increase in weight in the whole population. We have to look in which category the weight is going up. It would be as stupid as aying we are getting richer as a whole, when only the rich is getting richer.

    The prevalence data is misleading if people aren't sure about how it works. A small increase in weight is enough to shift a lot of people into the obese category.
    Well like u said, we need to find out why the obese r getting more obese.
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  6. i dont buy into the "it's just my genetics" for obese people. wooptee frickin doo. ya know what, some people are genetically diabetic, and ya know what else, THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR ELSE THEY WILL DIE. same goes for people predisposed to being overweight, and by that i mean they might store fat easier and have a slower metabolism. they need to live with the hand they were dealt in life. eat properly, eat healthy, exercises, and keep calories in check.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by laserbluess
    i dont buy into the "it's just my genetics" for obese people. wooptee frickin doo. ya know what, some people are genetically diabetic, and ya know what else, THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR ELSE THEY WILL DIE. same goes for people predisposed to being overweight, and by that i mean they might store fat easier and have a slower metabolism. they need to live with the hand they were dealt in life. eat properly, eat healthy, exercises, and keep calories in check.
    Real sh*t. When life gives u lemons, u say f*ck that and go buy oranges!

  8. and yes, i used to be overweight and out of shape. i got my dads metabolism (bigger guy), where as my brother got my moms metabolism (very thin, very low bodyfat). i didnt complain about it, i did something about it. and in the process found out i really enjoy exercise! hooray for finding a new hobby that's healthy (relatively).

  9. Quote Originally Posted by laserbluess
    and yes, i used to be overweight and out of shape. i got my dads metabolism (bigger guy), where as my brother got my moms metabolism (very thin, very low bodyfat). i didnt complain about it, i did something about it. and in the process found out i really enjoy exercise! hooray for finding a new hobby that's healthy (relatively).
    I used to b overweight too, lost 52 pounds and got shredded. If ppl really want it bad enough, they'll put in the work they need to.

  10. "There is a genetic component to obesity" <--- this is one viewpoint.

    "There is a genetic component to obesity, and therefore obese people cannot change their condition and have no responsibility to manage it" <---- this is a different viewpoint.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by steve0003 View Post
    "There is a genetic component to obesity" <--- this is one viewpoint.

    "There is a genetic component to obesity, and therefore obese people cannot change their condition and have no responsibility to manage it" <---- this is a different viewpoint.
    This is my contention with this thread. There's enough data collaborating the first viewpoint, and it is one that I think is true. And not only that, it is also true that much of our behavior is already predetermined by our genetics. But I think that can only be said within a frame that clarifies that it just means you have a proclivity towards doing A over X, and that while this is there at the end of the day you still have a choice. Without getting too metaphysical here, especially since this specific discussion is about only obesity and its cause(s), one was not always obese, and that person had a choice to change his lifestyle or continue his habits that led him to being obese. And presently, they have a choice to do something about their weight. They can drop weight; we've seen it happen.

    When anoop is here proclaiming the second viewpoint, I have to call him out on it. Thanks for also clarifying the distinction between the evidence he provides (evidence suggesting a genetic component to obesity) and the claim he's making both in his article and on this forum (a genetic component to obesity, and therefore obese people cannot change their condition and have no responsibility to manage it).

  12. "There is a genetic component to obesity" <--- this is one viewpoint.
    "There is a genetic component to obesity, and therefore obese people cannot change their condition and have no responsibility to manage it" <---- this is a different viewpoint.
    I guess you are just confusing the word "condition". When you mean condition do you mean cosmetic goals or health goals?

    What is most important is you health. And it has been clear that even losing 10-15 lbs of weight can have tremendous health benefits. There is no scientific reason to go OCD to come down to a normal BMI or 'getting a six pack'. It is also clear that exercise and a healthy diet independent of weight loss have tremendous health benefits.

    If your goal is cosmetic, you can go ahead and try for more. But at least you clearly know what you are up against.

    The problem is that obese people think that if they don't get to normal BMI, they are not normal. Hence their weight loss goals are just too unrealistic. Largely because they are bombarded by the message that obesity is simply about eating less and working more and hence is clearly a personal failing.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal

    I guess you are just confusing the word "condition". When you mean condition do you mean cosmetic goals or health goals?

    What is most important is you health. And it has been clear that even losing 10-15 lbs of weight can have tremendous health benefits. There is no scientific reason to go OCD to come down to a normal BMI or 'getting a six pack'. It is also clear that exercise and a healthy diet independent of weight loss have tremendous health benefits.

    If your goal is cosmetic, you can go ahead and try for more. But at least you clearly know what you are up against.

    The problem is that obese people think that if they don't get to normal BMI, they are not normal. Hence their weight loss goals are just too unrealistic. Largely because they are bombarded by the message that obesity is simply about eating less and working more and hence is clearly a personal failing.
    Well I'm glad u clarified for me. Previously, I thought u were saying that because of the genetic component of obesity, ppl that r obese will b doomed because its just not possible for them to lose any weight and keep it off. I don't feel that they have to have 6 packs, but at least get to a healthy weight, and if they want to get ripped then its strictly their choice. My problem is that I know a lot of obese ppl and they're lazy, eat horribly, and do nothing about their weight, they should lose weight so they can b healthy, but I wouldn't want them thinking that just because they may b genetically predisposed for obesity, that its impossible for them to lose weight, so they make no effort to.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    I guess you are just confusing the word "condition". When you mean condition do you mean cosmetic goals or health goals?

    What is most important is you health. And it has been clear that even losing 10-15 lbs of weight can have tremendous health benefits. There is no scientific reason to go OCD to come down to a normal BMI or 'getting a six pack'. It is also clear that exercise and a healthy diet independent of weight loss have tremendous health benefits.

    If your goal is cosmetic, you can go ahead and try for more. But at least you clearly know what you are up against.

    The problem is that obese people think that if they don't get to normal BMI, they are not normal. Hence their weight loss goals are just too unrealistic. Largely because they are bombarded by the message that obesity is simply about eating less and working more and hence is clearly a personal failing.
    I can agree with this.
  15. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    The initial article was interesting, but some of the grammatical errors didn't sit well with me. Perhaps that's nit-picky, but it just takes away from the professionalism for me.

    That being said, to everyone who is saying that people just have to want it, I used to think like you. Are there a lot of people out there in which this is the case? Probably. But what I can say is that I've watch my body go from pretty shredded to a state that I'm embarrassed of. I can also say that I tapered calories down more and increased cardio (with a spotless diet, no sugars, limited/cycled carbs from whole grain sources, etc.) and couldn't lose any weight. I even did the hCG diet for a while; lost all the glycogen weight off the bat and then watched the scale steadily go up a pound a day for a while at 500 calories/day while not making changes to the diet (allotted amt. of chicken, broccoli and apples) and also working out at the same time, no less.

    I want it as much or more than anyone else I know of, but I'm battling my body (whether you want to say genetics or something else internally that won't cooperate) to no avail.

    I'm not saying what I've experienced over the last year and a half is common (who knows, maybe it's more common that I know), but I know what I've gone through and I know that my eating patterns will be spot on to what my friends do and I can watch them still lose fat.

    Not everything is at it seems.

    In for more discussion.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    The initial article was interesting, but some of the grammatical errors didn't sit well with me. Perhaps that's nit-picky, but it just takes away from the professionalism for me.

    That being said, to everyone who is saying that people just have to want it, I used to think like you. Are there a lot of people out there in which this is the case? Probably. But what I can say is that I've watch my body go from pretty shredded to a state that I'm embarrassed of. I can also say that I tapered calories down more and increased cardio (with a spotless diet, no sugars, limited/cycled carbs from whole grain sources, etc.) and couldn't lose any weight. I even did the hCG diet for a while; lost all the glycogen weight off the bat and then watched the scale steadily go up a pound a day for a while at 500 calories/day while not making changes to the diet (allotted amt. of chicken, broccoli and apples) and also working out at the same time, no less.

    I want it as much or more than anyone else I know of, but I'm battling my body (whether you want to say genetics or something else internally that won't cooperate) to no avail.

    I'm not saying what I've experienced over the last year and a half is common (who knows, maybe it's more common that I know), but I know what I've gone through and I know that my eating patterns will be spot on to what my friends do and I can watch them still lose fat.

    Not everything is at it seems.

    In for more discussion.
    And that is what I am trying to say. There are people who could do it and don't struggle so much and there are people who it but are just struggling a lot. But for some reason people don't understand this and prefer to blame the obese who find it hard by using the example of a minority of obese who find it easy.

    And I do understand if you are obese and don't try at all.

    I have obese clients who I sometimes feel really sorry for. I know they are lying to to me just because they are humiliated to admit that they failed again because they were just "hungry". Everyone talks it is "both genetics and environment", but when it comes to the meat of the arguement it is always environment and a personal failing!

  17. That being said, to everyone who is saying that people just have to want it, I used to think like you. Are there a lot of people out there in which this is the case? Probably. But what I can say is that I've watch my body go from pretty shredded to a state that I'm embarrassed of. I can also say that I tapered calories down more and increased cardio (with a spotless diet, no sugars, limited/cycled carbs from whole grain sources, etc.) and couldn't lose any weight. I even did the hCG diet for a while; lost all the glycogen weight off the bat and then watched the scale steadily go up a pound a day for a while at 500 calories/day while not making changes to the diet (allotted amt. of chicken, broccoli and apples) and also working out at the same time, no less.
    And here we have another anecdote that muddies the waters. Your story isn't the first time I have heard something like this. I believe it is what a portion of the population experiences when they try to lose weight.

    What's the reason? I don't know. Probably at least partially due to factors that we don't yet understand about the body. Genetics, epigenetics, effects of microorganisms in the GI system, etc.



    IMHO there is something else at work beyond diet/exercise that is helping to keep Americans fat. I've traveled around some, and I've seen foreign populations that looked 2x as healthy as Americans without putting 2x as much effort into good living habits. My money is on the North American food supply somehow.

    Right now Americans have the reputation around the world of being fat because we are just lazy overeating slobs. But I think future generations with more knowledge about the human body may look back on us more kindly. Quite a few of us are overeating slobs, but we seem to have also stumbled into some situation that is amplifying the effects of bad dieting/exercise habits alone. And IMHO conventional wisdom certainly underestimates how hard some people's bodies will fight against losing weight once it has been put on.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by steve0003

    And here we have another anecdote that muddies the waters. Your story isn't the first time I have heard something like this. I believe it is what a portion of the population experiences when they try to lose weight.

    What's the reason? I don't know. Probably at least partially due to factors that we don't yet understand about the body. Genetics, epigenetics, effects of microorganisms in the GI system, etc.

    IMHO there is something else at work beyond diet/exercise that is helping to keep Americans fat. I've traveled around some, and I've seen foreign populations that looked 2x as healthy as Americans without putting 2x as much effort into good living habits. My money is on the North American food supply somehow.

    Right now Americans have the reputation around the world of being fat because we are just lazy overeating slobs. But I think future generations with more knowledge about the human body may look back on us more kindly. Quite a few of us are overeating slobs, but we seem to have also stumbled into some situation that is amplifying the effects of bad dieting/exercise habits alone. And IMHO conventional wisdom certainly underestimates how hard some people's bodies will fight against losing weight once it has been put on.
    These r all great points bro. Its puzzling what other underlying factors there could b behind obesity, that contribute to it, but we just don't know yet. I think we all can agree though that America needs to make a conscious collaborative effort to help it's ppl become healthier. I also partially blame our food supply, but since we can't deal with that right now, we have to make personal efforts. Every little step ppl take to get healthier can help drastically.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by steve0003 View Post
    Right now Americans have the reputation around the world of being fat because we are just lazy overeating slobs. But I think future generations with more knowledge about the human body may look back on us more kindly. Quite a few of us are overeating slobs, but we seem to have also stumbled into some situation that is amplifying the effects of bad dieting/exercise habits alone. And IMHO conventional wisdom certainly underestimates how hard some people's bodies will fight against losing weight once it has been put on.
    Yeah, absolutely. To further that last point, even though this is but a small detail in a much larger picture I bet, we know for instance how obesity and factors associated with obesity (their high sugar/high calorie diets up to that point, increased inflammatory factors released by hypertrophied/excess fatty cells) can destroy one's insulin sensitivity, leading to diabetes. And of course diabetics will have problems losing weight because nutrients have a hard time getting shuttled to muscle cells. So muscle is not as metabolically active as it can be, and more of these nutrients get shuttled to fat cells, so one continues to support their obesity by eating. (Of course then you must design an appropriate diet to attack this, for instance minimizing carbs in their diet).

    As I said, this is one factor. It's possible entering the state of obesity or being in it for a prolonged period destroys various other mechanisms in the body that the body normally has to lose fat and/or maintain a healthier body composition.

    Anyways, though, obese people don't just become obese from a lean state. They go through several progressions to get there. And much concern must also be directed to these people to prevent people from becoming obese. And this is where it is important to bring up diet and activity levels. Here there is much to be done, and to throw one's hands up and say "but genetics makes this person's metabolism slow, thus he will continue to accumulate fat and become obese and nothing can be done," is irresponsible and a joke.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia
    Yeah, absolutely. To further that last point, even though this is but a small detail in a much larger picture I bet, we know for instance how obesity and factors associated with obesity (their high sugar/high calorie diets up to that point, increased inflammatory factors released by hypertrophied/excess fatty cells) can destroy one's insulin sensitivity, leading to diabetes. And of course diabetics will have problems losing weight because nutrients have a hard time getting shuttled to muscle cells. So muscle is not as metabolically active as it can be, and more of these nutrients get shuttled to fat cells, so one continues to support their obesity by eating. (Of course then you must design an appropriate diet to attack this, for instance minimizing carbs in their diet).

    As I said, this is one factor. It's possible entering the state of obesity or being in it for a prolonged period destroys various other mechanisms in the body that the body normally has to lose fat and/or maintain a healthier body composition.

    Anyways, though, obese people don't just become obese from a lean state. They go through several progressions to get there. And much concern must also be directed to these people to prevent people from becoming obese. And this is where it is important to bring up diet and activity levels. Here there is much to be done, and to throw one's hands up and say "but genetics makes this person's metabolism slow, thus he will continue to accumulate fat and become obese and nothing can be done," is irresponsible and a joke.
    Well put bro. I totally agree, your metabolism can't doom u to b obese, no matter what effort u put forth to reverse being obese.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed View Post
    Well put bro. I totally agree, your metabolism can't doom u to b obese, no matter what effort u put forth to reverse being obese.
    Yes. I will add to my last statement though that genetics are important to see where your weak points are to come up with an appropriate plan specific to the individual to keep one healthy. I feel that may have not been highlighted well.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia
    Yes. I will add to my last statement though that genetics are important to see where your weak points are to come up with an appropriate plan specific to the individual to keep one healthy. I feel that may have not been highlighted well.
    No I totally agree bro. Everyone is different so they need diets to suit them individually.

  23. Haha while watching this (the actual DVD) I though of this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOxoZ3exM_Q

    M
    in 2:40 it's pretty good, kind of prefaces a little bit about where he's coming from when he's about to talk about eating; but around 3:33 he starts talking about feeding habits of kids. Pretty funny

  24. "Mom its salty, it hurts". Lmao

  25. Ive been obese and I really think alot of it has to deal with how I ate growing up and the crazy thing is, I was an athlete I played all sports in high school and played college football at a division 2 school and so i did alot of hard work but had a hard time taking the weight off, So i really do believe that it has alot to do with how you were raised and kept that eating habit, now im slowly losing the weight but changed my eating habit

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Monsta65
    Ive been obese and I really think alot of it has to deal with how I ate growing up and the crazy thing is, I was an athlete I played all sports in high school and played college football at a division 2 school and so i did alot of hard work but had a hard time taking the weight off, So i really do believe that it has alot to do with how you were raised and kept that eating habit, now im slowly losing the weight but changed my eating habit
    True good example bro.

  27. Ive been obese and I really think alot of it has to deal with how I ate growing up and the crazy thing is, I was an athlete I played all sports in high school and played college football at a division 2 school and so i did alot of hard work but had a hard time taking the weight off, So i really do believe that it has alot to do with how you were raised and kept that eating habit, now im slowly losing the weight but changed my eating habit
    The research says otherwise though. I think nobody is questioning the losing part. The question is how much can you lose and keep it off and not go ocd to maintain it. It seems like it is very less 5-7% body weight.

    It seems like people who are predisposed to obesity, seems to put on a lot of weight than normal people do. Is this because of hunger or the metabolism or both?

    And we usually only hear the tales of success. We don't hear people bragging about their failures. And that's the problem with anecdotes. Negatives hits get missed or don't get counted. In medicine, they say, "dead man never tell any tales".

  28. O yea i see what you are saying about it, I was just going off of as how i was obese and things that I did to over come because if you see my family we are all pretty big but I get what you are saying research there are a bunch of things on it

  29. In this last part, I will be replying to some of the most common questions and comments people had about the first two articles.

    The Cause of Obesity - Part 3
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