Skinny Fat Hardgainer Needs HELP!!!!

TrumpetLegend

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Hey guys so long story short, I've been lifting on and off for years and pretty much nothing is working for me. I'm 6' tall, currently weigh 165 lbs. and have 30% body fat. I used to weigh 130lbs, then lost my job, got depressed, started trying to bulk up and basically messed it up big time....Luckily, I finally found a great position that I start on Monday and can start getting it together again. So anyways, I'm not happy with the way I look at all and am not sure whether to cut, bulk or do a combo of the 2 first. My goal for this year is to be pretty happy with my body by the summer though I know I'm not going to look like superman or anything yet. I want to do this naturally so here is a list of my training and supplements. I'm still working on the diet because I heard skinny fat guys should eat fats instead of low glycemic carbs so I'm a little confused especially since I don't know whether to bulk or cut first.

Current Supplements: (Let me know if I missed anything...For the record, I don't do well with stimulants which is ironic because I have ADHD. lol)

Assault
Recon
Up Your Mass Weight Gainer
Multi-Vitamin
Omega 3 CLA

Training was originally a 6 day split of 1-2 body parts per day, but I'm going to cut it down to 4 days a week in order to decrease cortisol production since I researched that skinny fat guys produce too much by training too often. Each session no more than about 1 hour. I am trying to do mostly compound exercises while still hitting each part of or close to each part of each muscle.

Monday: Chest, Back and Shoulders

Incline Chest
Fly
Dumbell Row
Shrug
Pullover
Millitary Press
Side Laterals
Rear Rows

Tuesday: Leegs, Tris, Bis

Rear Squat
Straight Leg Dead Lifts
Front Squats
Barbell Curls
Incline supinated dumbell curls
Close Grip Bench
Skull Crushers
Overhead Press

Wed-Off

Thurs: Chest, Back, Shoulders
Flat Chest Press
Barbell Row
Front shoulder press
side laterals
rear rows
pullover

Fri: Legs, Tris, Bis

Front Squats (May switch all squats to front and rear box squats as well)
Rear Squats
Dead Lift and shrug at top
incline supinated curls
barbell curls
close grip bench
skull crushers
overhead press

Sat: Off
Sun: Off
Please note that I do 3 sets of 12, 10, 8 reps each and that I work out at home with a smith machine and free weights. This is also not the order in which I train them all.

Let me know what you all think. Thanks guys!!!
 

CrazyBassGuy

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First off - well done on the job and well done getting it back together :thumbsup:

Start off really simple: I wouldn't think too much about bulk.vs.cut at this point. Starting at 30%bf I think you could probably recomp more easily than some of the leaner guys on here.

Take a look at Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength, one of the beginner workout programs.

I am no expert but your program looks a bit too heavy total volume and also too many isolation exercises.

Work on getting a big squat, big deadlift, big bench. Add in some rows, pullups and military presses.

Cut out the weight gainer and other supplements. Spend your $$$ on good quality lean mean, complex carbs, olive oil, nuts etc.......

Supplement with Creatine and a Multivit if you like - that that will probably help with a 5x5 program as it is good for short high intensity bursts.

Do that for 12 weeks, tweaking your diet to suit you but trying to stick to whichever workout plan you choose.

You should build a good solid base of strength to progress on, and will do wonders for your %bf too.

Good luck, keep us updated on your progress
 
thatonepolish

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First off - well done on the job and well done getting it back together :thumbsup:

Start off really simple: I wouldn't think too much about bulk.vs.cut at this point. Starting at 30%bf I think you could probably recomp more easily than some of the leaner guys on here.

Take a look at Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength, one of the beginner workout programs.

I am no expert but your program looks a bit too heavy total volume and also too many isolation exercises.

Work on getting a big squat, big deadlift, big bench. Add in some rows, pullups and military presses.

Cut out the weight gainer and other supplements. Spend your $$$ on good quality lean mean, complex carbs, olive oil, nuts etc.......

Supplement with Creatine and a Multivit if you like - that that will probably help with a 5x5 program as it is good for short high intensity bursts.

Do that for 12 weeks, tweaking your diet to suit you but trying to stick to whichever workout plan you choose.

You should build a good solid base of strength to progress on, and will do wonders for your %bf too.

Good luck, keep us updated on your progress
This man speaks the truth! Very knowledgeable advice.
 

TrumpetLegend

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Thanks! Just got the power back from the storm which is why I haven't been on to respond.

Recomp means Recomposition, right? lol So train at maintenance level for now?

Took a look at it, but I work out at home and don't have a dip station and I'm unable to do bodyweight pull ups/ chin ups yet....So that leaves nothing for bis, tris, or middle and rear shoulders....Also is it ok to switch deadlifts for straight leg deads so the hams get built up too? I'm thinking about throwing in some front squats also...

I have some other questions, but I'm shot from my new job. lol Let's start with that. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
 
AutoKal47

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Really depends on what is the idea of the body you want
With 30%BF i'd for sure start to cut, go for 3 days heavy wo
and 3 days high reps and lighter weight, 1 day cardio (you can rest
but I'd do even a lil bit of cardio, same goes for the 3 heavy days)
Plan a cal deficit diet and start from there.
If instead you wanna get bigger, then recomp
70% of the results you're gonna get will come from a good diet one way or the other
As for the exercises, do them all, deadlifts and front squats should always be
in any wo program imho, and for the stiff leg dead, I love that exercise
don't switch one for the other, add
 

CrazyBassGuy

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For middle and rear shoulders, barbell military press / Overhead Press
For Tri's close grip bench press / pushups / bench dips (also will get worked doing overhead presses)
For pullups - try getting some bands for assistance - not tried it personally but sounds like a good idea.
Barbell Rows can be substituted in to work read shoulders, lats and biceps.
Don't take the deadlift out - if you wanna do stiff leg deadlifts as well you can
 

gward

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I'd recommend Starting Strength program as well, has worked great for me. I've also tried Strong Lifts and lost some, I think it may have been to much for me. You'll think the program looks strange because you'll be doing Squats every workout but it works for gaining mass, I've gone up 15 lbs in about 3 months on it and haven't gone up in body fat.
 
darsh89

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what is your diet going to look like when you start this program?
 

TrumpetLegend

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I have no idea...I appreciate all of the advice, but you basically all told me something different so now I'm confused beyond words. lol ...My ultimate end result goal at the end of x amount of years would be to eventually end up looking simillar to AutoKal47.....
 

CrazyBassGuy

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No worries, for every man there is a workout!

Pick one, do it for 8-12 weeks - re-evaluate.

Lather, rinse, repeat :)

Good luck man
 
darsh89

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I have no idea...I appreciate all of the advice, but you basically all told me something different so now I'm confused beyond words. lol ...My ultimate end result goal at the end of x amount of years would be to eventually end up looking simillar to AutoKal47.....
your diet is going to play a bigger role in you achieving your goals then your workouts. Plan a diet, post it on here and we can critique it.
 
AaronJP1

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Nice advice
 

TrumpetLegend

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Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the advice...I want to cut some cards out for now and train at maintenance or slightly below so how is something like this for diet:

8- 3 eggs, oatmeal, OJ
10-Lean ground meat 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass whole milk
12-Chicken 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass milk
2-Pre-Workout 2 scoops Up Your Mass (With either milk or water)
4 Post Workout 2 scoops Up Your Mass (With either milk or water)
6 lean ground meat 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass milk May switch this one out for 2 slices wheat bread and 2 tbsp natty pb

The order is wrong, but I have to get up early for work so you get the idea and Multi in the morning and I have my Assalt pre workout and Recon afterwards. I may eventually throw in some more CLA and was looking in to 7-Keto to help with Recomp-what do you think?

Training: Monday/Thursday-

4x6reps of Rear and Front Squat, Dead lift with shrug at top, flat bench, rear barbell rows, flys, pull overs (May add in military front shoulder press on smith and stiff legged deadlift too (Have to see how the timing works out)

Tuesday/ Friday-

4x6reps of side shoulder laterals, rear shoulder rows or flys, barbel curls, supinated incline dumbell curls, close grip bench, skull crushers, overhead 2 handed dumbell extensions, ham curls (And will add in military press for shoulders and stiff dead if not enough time on Monday/Thurs

Wed and or sat will be calves, forearms, and abs

3x20r standing and seated calf raises
1x 100r front and rear forearms curls and may add in 3x12 r of hammer curls or something like that
abs 3x20r rear leg raises, decline sit ups, v ups, crunches and side oblique twists or wood chops.

The order and stuff on all this is wrong, but I'm shot...What do you guys think so far? I'll add anything I missed and clarify etc...tomorrow....
 
darsh89

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Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the advice...I want to cut some cards out for now and train at maintenance or slightly below so how is something like this for diet:

8- 3 eggs, oatmeal, OJ
10-Lean ground meat 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass whole milk
12-Chicken 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass milk
2-Pre-Workout 2 scoops Up Your Mass (With either milk or water)
4 Post Workout 2 scoops Up Your Mass (With either milk or water)
6 lean ground meat 2 tablespoons natty pb and possibly 1 glass milk May switch this one out for 2 slices wheat bread and 2 tbsp natty pb

The order is wrong, but I have to get up early for work so you get the idea and Multi in the morning and I have my Assalt pre workout and Recon afterwards. I may eventually throw in some more CLA and was looking in to 7-Keto to help with Recomp-what do you think?

Training: Monday/Thursday-

4x6reps of Rear and Front Squat, Dead lift with shrug at top, flat bench, rear barbell rows, flys, pull overs (May add in military front shoulder press on smith and stiff legged deadlift too (Have to see how the timing works out)

Tuesday/ Friday-

4x6reps of side shoulder laterals, rear shoulder rows or flys, barbel curls, supinated incline dumbell curls, close grip bench, skull crushers, overhead 2 handed dumbell extensions, ham curls (And will add in military press for shoulders and stiff dead if not enough time on Monday/Thurs

Wed and or sat will be calves, forearms, and abs

3x20r standing and seated calf raises
1x 100r front and rear forearms curls and may add in 3x12 r of hammer curls or something like that
abs 3x20r rear leg raises, decline sit ups, v ups, crunches and side oblique twists or wood chops.

The order and stuff on all this is wrong, but I'm shot...What do you guys think so far? I'll add anything I missed and clarify etc...tomorrow....
Shoot for these macros: This will put you right at maintenance for the most part and will help you recomp. Since you havent been lifting seriously in awhile you should easily be able to gain muscle and lose fat following this plan.

Lifting Day: 260 protein, 260 carbs, 80 fat = 2800 cals

Off Day: 225 protein, 180 carbs, 75 fat = 2300 cals

Your current macros are 224 protein, 217 carbs, and 112 fat = 2772 cals, which is in the range you need to be getting for a workout day, so you could follow this if you want, but i feel that your fat is a little too high. Try taking out a serving of peanut butter and all the whole milk and replacing the peanut butter with lean meat and the whole milk with skim milk or 1%. Also add 2-3 veggies in your diet.
 
AaronJP1

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How can you assure those macros are right?

Carbs seem a bit high on off day?... No?
 
darsh89

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How can you assure those macros are right?

Carbs seem a bit high on off day?... No?
i gave him the benefit of the doubt that hes consuming 8oz of lean meat at each meal. no i cannot assure they are exact but they are ball park. the macros i posted would work well for someone wanting to recomp. At his height and weight, 6 feet 164 pounds he could stand the additional carbs on off days. 180 carbs on off days isnt really that much. If he wanted to drop to 100 carbs and up fat from 75 to 110 that would work fine as well, whatever is more convenient.

I take in 200-220 carbs on an off day to eat at maintenance and dont gain any fat. When i cut though carbs are closer to 100 on an off day, although i cut slowly, never more than a half pound a week.
 
AaronJP1

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i gave him the benefit of the doubt that hes consuming 8oz of lean meat at each meal. no i cannot assure they are exact but they are ball park. the macros i posted would work well for someone wanting to recomp. At his height and weight, 6 feet 164 pounds he could stand the additional carbs on off days. 180 carbs on off days isnt really that much. If he wanted to drop to 100 carbs and up fat from 75 to 110 that would work fine as well, whatever is more convenient.

I take in 200-220 carbs on an off day to eat at maintenance and dont gain any fat. When i cut though carbs are closer to 100 on an off day, although i cut slowly, never more than a half pound a week.
hhhmmm...
Might ask you for some advice on recomp...
 

gymrat827

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i would focus on dropping some BF first, than building some muscle.

I would do a 10min cardio warm up, lift for 25min, and finish with 25-40min of cardio 4-6x a wk. Once your down to 18-19% BF than start trying to build a bit of muscle.
 
AaronJP1

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Rethink

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You have recieved a lot of attention on this thread and plenty of advice but I think people have failed to address some key points your post raises!

Firstly you are too heavy at the moment and this really can't be justified at all. People should prioritise maintaining low body fat over gaining weight always for several reasons including better appearance, better health, enhanced performance, ect. At 30% body fat objectively speaking you are above the threshold for obese for a man I am reluctant to say.

As a rule that people should always keep in mind you should cut before you bulk. A cut ends at 8% body fat unless your goal is lower. You should lose weight at a minimum of a pound a week and not be afraid to increase this to 2 pounds or even 3 if you have a lot of weight to lose.

A bulk should begin at 8% body fat and should not exceed 15% body fat. Additionally you should not gain more than 1 pound a week.

Secondly you should be more concerned about your diet at this stage than your training regimen. Training depends wholly on a persons goals but virtually any resistence training regimen that is taken to muscle failure is effective. Diet on the other hand is not effective unless a person can consistently maintain a significant calorie deficit.

I would personally recommend intermittent fasting for weight loss but if you prefer the diet path you should aim for 1200 calories spread over 3 meals with ~100 g of protein. Macronutrient ratios are not critical rather choose foods that are high in fibre because this helps you feel fuller while consuming such low calories.

Many people will be tempted to critique my advice of only 1200 calories but you have a lot of weight to lose and should aim for losing at a rate of at least 2 pounds a week. So long as you maintain your weight training you shouldn't be concerned about muscle loss.

Thirdly I don't think you need to take so many supplements. How do you know they are working? Are they worth the money you are spending? Could you tell if they actually decreased your health and performance rather than increasing it as they are marketed. If you look for independent research and the professional opinion of peak sports bodies you will find most supplements are not effective or recommended. Recent research has even found people who take multivitamins live shorter lives than people who don't; albeit only by a small margin.
 
AaronJP1

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Yeah, basically you're telling him to focus on losing weight then build muscle?
If he is going to spend time doing a diet like that and focusing that hard, it might be better for him to recomp.
When they are saying recomp they mean burning fat gaining muscle which would be harder yes, but not much different than him trying to lose the weight.
 

TrumpetLegend

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I'm thinking about looking in to some designer steroids just for a month to get a quick head start. Nothing is working, I'm not happy at all and now all the guys at work are using them and getting huge. fml!!!
 
darsh89

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I'm thinking about looking in to some designer steroids just for a month to get a quick head start. Nothing is working, I'm not happy at all and now all the guys at work are using them and getting huge. fml!!!
thats retarded
 
counterspy

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Rethink basically said what I was going to suggest, and did so more eloquently than I could have attempted. I am behind IF and the belief that fat should be lost before gaining mass. The best part is that the OP is young. Better to do this now and get rid of the fat, while still having some productive, natural muscle-building years left. Once at the desired fat percentage, make use of a neat calculator such as 1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ to provide guidance on a nice leangains style bulk.
 

TrumpetLegend

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I did some research in to the steroids and to be honest, I don't think that's going to be for me, but something is definitely holding me back and I'm thinking it might be the cortisol. What do you guys think of me trying EndoAmp Max?!?
 

TrumpetLegend

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I'm sticking with the re-comp idea. I'm not obese or anywhere near it and what your saying is absolutely insane rethink.
 

quigley

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I'm sticking with the re-comp idea. I'm not obese or anywhere near it and what your saying is absolutely insane rethink.
Just as long as you know that recomp = high possibility of training for 3-4 months with little or no results. Only experienced/determined/careful/brandspanking new trainers can pull a solid recomp off. Most people cant find that right 'point' where they can gain muscle plus burn fat, and usually end up doing a little of everything and not changing much.

I think you should aim for a cut but cycle up your calories on training days to at maintenance or a tiny bit above, and a 6-800 calorie deficit on non training days. That way your still cutting, and you'll drop fat, but you'll have enough calories on training days to hold/build a little muslce if your lucky.

Steroids = easy way out unless you've maxxed your natural potential.
 
darsh89

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do you actually know for a fact that ur 30% bodyfat? it seems almost impossible that ur 6'0 and 165 and have worked out but are 30% bf yet still skinny. i mean most people that are 30% body fat are noticeable overweight
 
AutoKal47

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I did some research in to the steroids and to be honest, I don't think that's going to be for me, but something is definitely holding me back and I'm thinking it might be the cortisol. What do you guys think of me trying EndoAmp Max?!?
The factors "holding you back" could be infinite, too many variables,
if you're going to give a shot to every product on the market simply guessing
from the labels and the write ups you'll most likely end up spending a great
deal of money getting very lil results.

A well planned diet, willpower to stick to it and ass-busting training will be responsible for
90% of your results, especially considering you're not and won't use PHs, AAS and such (good choice btw,
you'd need a lot more knowledge and experience to safely use those) there are no shortcuts, period.

A good diet will give you 90% of what you need to recomp and carry on a great training,
then there are some nutrients, ingredients that have poor bioavailability in nature or simply
bb benefits from higher doses which would be hard to get with food etc.. or simply you need
to supplement on some when you're dieting.
The basics, fish oil, multivitamin, bcaa, vitamins D3 and C, etc.. You can get great info on
the basic sups on this 3d

As for the diet, that's gonna be tricky, don't think "skynny fat have to eat this and that",
plan a diet and make sure you nail the macros based on your weight, goal and training,
make sure your food choices are on point (plenty of info in here, but really, there's not much
of a choice if you want to eat clean.. so it's fairly easy) and then adjust it with experience.
Some people are carb sensitive, some other bodies can handles them better etc..
you'll need to try.
 

TrumpetLegend

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OK thanks. I'm going to buy some E-bol tomorrow. I heard that it can correct whatever is holding you back and help you to grow. Not a miracle worker, but if there is something holding me back, this could help me gain like 4lbs of muscle a month which would be like a miracle for me! What do you guys think?
 

quigley

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OK thanks. I'm going to buy some E-bol tomorrow. I heard that it can correct whatever is holding you back and help you to grow. Not a miracle worker, but if there is something holding me back, this could help me gain like 4lbs of muscle a month which would be like a miracle for me! What do you guys think?
symptom of ****arounditis: You talk about supplements more than squats.

Dude if your conviced some physiological anamoly is holding you back, go get some bloods done by the doc and check it out. Thats the responsible thing to do.
Seems more like your just wanting quick/fast results and are unwilling/unable to entertain that this is a slow process and that your diet/training is lacking. Sure go ahead and jump on as many supps/roids as you want. You'll def get results, whether you keep them is another matter.
good luck to you
 
AaronJP1

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symptom of ****arounditis: You talk about supplements more than squats.

Dude if your conviced some physiological anamoly is holding you back, go get some bloods done by the doc and check it out. Thats the responsible thing to do.
Seems more like your just wanting quick/fast results and are unwilling/unable to entertain that this is a slow process and that your diet/training is lacking. Sure go ahead and jump on as many supps/roids as you want. You'll def get results, whether you keep them is another matter.
good luck to you
lol @ talking about sups more than squats...
 
AutoKal47

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OK thanks. I'm going to buy some E-bol tomorrow. I heard that it can correct whatever is holding you back and help you to grow. Not a miracle worker, but if there is something holding me back, this could help me gain like 4lbs of muscle a month which would be like a miracle for me! What do you guys think?
lol
 
Steakumm

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do you actually know for a fact that ur 30% bodyfat? it seems almost impossible that ur 6'0 and 165 and have worked out but are 30% bf yet still skinny. i mean most people that are 30% body fat are noticeable overweight
I thought the same thing as darsh. 30% bf 165 6 ft Your completly out of shape , I think what holding you back is Not actually doing the workouts you list. What about cardio? I woulld actually workout hard for 8-9 months get into a good diet and then consider some steroids. Also see a Dr. get some bloods
 

TrumpetLegend

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1st of all: I'm not taking steroids and I don't want to either

2nd of all: I'm definitely not completely out of shape

3rd of all: Are you all going to bust my balls and make fun of me or are you actually going to help me?

4th: I work out 6 days per week for 1 hour and not only do I squat, but I do my entire legs twice per week which should increase test, gh etc which consists of front and rear squats, leg press, stiff deads and more

5th: My goal to gain 1 pound of muscle per week is completely in reason and it most definitely does not seem like some insanely crazy goal that is unattainable so how could you even say that I want to get this fast?
 
AaronJP1

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1st of all: I'm not taking steroids and I don't want to either

2nd of all: I'm definitely not completely out of shape

3rd of all: Are you all going to bust my balls and make fun of me or are you actually going to help me?

4th: I work out 6 days per week for 1 hour and not only do I squat, but I do my entire legs twice per week which should increase test, gh etc which consists of front and rear squats, leg press, stiff deads and more

5th: My goal to gain 1 pound of muscle per week is completely in reason and it most definitely does not seem like some insanely crazy goal that is unattainable so how could you even say that I want to get this fast?
Ok....
Let's start this over.
You want advice?
Ask us detailed mature questions/statements and we will do the same in regards to advice...
Fair enough.
 
darsh89

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how do you know your 30% bodyfat? Have you actually had it measured? What way did you have it measured?
 
cjszip

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1st of all: I'm not taking steroids and I don't want to either

2nd of all: I'm definitely not completely out of shape

3rd of all: Are you all going to bust my balls and make fun of me or are you actually going to help me?

4th: I work out 6 days per week for 1 hour and not only do I squat, but I do my entire legs twice per week which should increase test, gh etc which consists of front and rear squats, leg press, stiff deads and more

5th: My goal to gain 1 pound of muscle per week is completely in reason and it most definitely does not seem like some insanely crazy goal that is unattainable so how could you even say that I want to get this fast?
1. Good, don't take steroids.
2. Good, glad you aren't out of shape. I highly doubt you're 30% bodyfat. If you are, for health reasons, it's most important to lower your bodyfat. It's nothing to be ashamed of or upset about, you just need to trim down. I think what forum member "rethink" said is pretty much what I would say. I came up with approximately 1,600 calories, 165 grams protein, 36g fat, and ~165g Carbohydrates. My theory for you losing weight is simple; if you're ABOVE 15% bodyfat, you will proportionally gain more fat than muscle if you're attempting to "gain muscle". At a lower bodyfat percentage, you'll have more lean bodyweight to distribute nutrients to, verses fat cells. Additionally, you improve insulin sensitivity while dieting/fasting, which is something (poor insulin sensitivity) that skinny-fat hardgainers almost unequivocally have in common.
3. I don't really see anyone busting your balls, and to further reenforce this, I'm trying to help.
4. I think a basic 3 day split, full body or half-body, such as M- upper, W- lower, F- Upper, M- lower, W- upper, F- lower is ideal. This can further improve insulin sensitivity by activating more muscle-glut-4 receptors, and has an added effect of improving nutrient utilization by lean mass. This is ideal at this point, I think. Stick to compound lifts, and if you need help, we're mostly helpful around here.
5. 1 pound of lean mass per week is lofty. Even if you ARE capable of gaining 1 full pound of muscle per week (you aren't) you're at an even greater disadvantage because you're above 15% bodyfat.
 

quigley

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1. Good, don't take steroids.
2. Good, glad you aren't out of shape. I highly doubt you're 30% bodyfat. If you are, for health reasons, it's most important to lower your bodyfat. It's nothing to be ashamed of or upset about, you just need to trim down. I think what forum member "rethink" said is pretty much what I would say. I came up with approximately 1,600 calories, 165 grams protein, 36g fat, and ~165g Carbohydrates. My theory for you losing weight is simple; if you're ABOVE 15% bodyfat, you will proportionally gain more fat than muscle if you're attempting to "gain muscle". At a lower bodyfat percentage, you'll have more lean bodyweight to distribute nutrients to, verses fat cells. Additionally, you improve insulin sensitivity while dieting/fasting, which is something (poor insulin sensitivity) that skinny-fat hardgainers almost unequivocally have in common.
3. I don't really see anyone busting your balls, and to further reenforce this, I'm trying to help.
4. I think a basic 3 day split, full body or half-body, such as M- upper, W- lower, F- Upper, M- lower, W- upper, F- lower is ideal. This can further improve insulin sensitivity by activating more muscle-glut-4 receptors, and has an added effect of improving nutrient utilization by lean mass. This is ideal at this point, I think. Stick to compound lifts, and if you need help, we're mostly helpful around here.
5. 1 pound of lean mass per week is lofty. Even if you ARE capable of gaining 1 full pound of muscle per week (you aren't) you're at an even greater disadvantage because you're above 15% bodyfat.
well said
 

TrumpetLegend

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OK, sounds good. I'll take pictures and everything to show you guys and 30% is what is the formula said after I used the calipers to measure the average of 3 times for chest, stomach, and quad....

Am thinking about buying Animal Test since I can't get E-bol....What do you think?
 
darsh89

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OK, sounds good. I'll take pictures and everything to show you guys and 30% is what is the formula said after I used the calipers to measure the average of 3 times for chest, stomach, and quad....

Am thinking about buying Animal Test since I can't get E-bol....What do you think?
That forumla thing is likely wrong, although pics will help determine if you realy are 30%. If you are 30% i expect you to be basically like a bean pole everywhere and have a donut shaped stomach. Im just gonna venture that your more than likely closer to 20%.

i think u should quit wasting your time and money on supps that arent going to do anything and try putting together a decent meal plan.
 

TrumpetLegend

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100MEDIA$IMAG0608.jpg
 

TrumpetLegend

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I took two more, but it won't let me upload them here....
 
AaronJP1

AaronJP1

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<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47725"/>
Cardio for about 20-30 minutes and a diet change of healthier food will fix that.

Look into the zone diet &/or carb cycling.
U can do the cardio 3-4 times a week :)
 

Alpha Mind

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Congrats on the new gig and focusing your mind back on your health!

I'd focus more on diet than your lifts, but to start, I'd suggest more compound exercises, less isolated movements.

Also, 75-100 kettlebell swings will certainly help you shed some fat, especially if you do them first thing in the morning.

What does your diet look like?
 

Rethink

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You didn't like my advice last time I contributed but I thought I would make another comment seeing as you seem to be still focused on the wrong issues.

Firstly your enthusiasm for supplements is quite niave. There are many people including myself who make excellent progress without supplements. If you choose to take supplements keep it simple. Just take creatine because its the only scientifically validated ergogenic. Creatine has a small performance enhancing effect that some people, particualarly competitive athletes find useful. Other supplements fail to recieve scientific backing from the sports medicine community. If any of the other supplements enhanced performance they would recieve the same support creatine has but this is sadly not the case.

There are prohormones that work but if you are thinking of taking prohormones then you are basicly taking oral c-17 alkylated steroids. The host of side effects are enough to warrant anybody to reconsider taking them and you will need illegal ancilleries such as SERMs to properly use these products.

Secondly, you rejected my advice about you needing to lose weight and seem to think that you need to gain weight instead. The American Council on Exercise states that the obese threshold begins at 25% bodyfat. That being said 30% is way too high to consider gaining weight! You need to lose weight rapidly before you begin to gain weight. If you want to enhance your appearance then there is no reason why you shouldn't lose weight because slim people always look more attractive than fat muscular people.

You should aim to reach 8% bodyfat then consider whether you want to gain weight. Some people once they reach single digits bodyfat decide they don't need to gain weight and aim to maintain low bodyfat instead. This brings me to my next point.

Third, you may have unrealistic expectations about how much muscle you can gain in a given timeframe naturally. The most dry muscle a person can gain in a week is half a pound. So expecting to gain more than 2 pounds or a Kg a month is setting yourself up to gain unacceptable amounts of fat without increasing muscle mass.

You also should consider your natural potential for growth. The most lean mass a person can have naturally is determined by squaring their height and multiplying this figure by 25. You can't expect to exceed this figure without performance enhancing drugs. Additionally it takes at least 5 years of consistent training to reach this and most people will take much longer because their training and nutrition are not ideal.

I hope you consider my advice more carefully this time because when I read your posts I have some concern about the direction you are headed.
 

CrazyBassGuy

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Rethink - you have some good points. Just a quick Q.

Never heard that about natural lean mass maximum (Height*Height)*25.

Is that height in Metres - giving lean mass in Kg ? Myself (1.7 * 1.7) * 25 = 72.25Kg

So 80Kg (176lb) @ 10% bf would be about the most I can get naturally?

(OP - sorry to hijack your post but never heard this before - intrigued)
 

Rethink

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Rethink - you have some good points. Just a quick Q.

Never heard that about natural lean mass maximum (Height*Height)*25.

Is that height in Metres - giving lean mass in Kg ? Myself (1.7 * 1.7) * 25 = 72.25Kg

So 80Kg (176lb) @ 10% bf would be about the most I can get naturally?

(OP - sorry to hijack your post but never heard this before - intrigued)
The formula is called the Lean Mass Index or LMI. There has been extensive research done into the LMI and the researchers found the LMI of the average person who doesn't train is 18.9 and 25.4 was the average LMI of body builder champions in the pre-steroid era. The average LMI of steroid users is 30 and the ressearchers advised that the LMI could be used by law enforcement agencies to screen for steroid abuse.
 

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