NEED SERIOUS HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  1. Registered User
    Rethink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsexy74 View Post
    link to articles regarding your claims please
    I can't post links but I can provide the name of an article.

    Regarding catabolism on a very low calorie diet search "Effects of Resistance vs. Aerobic Training Combined
    With an 800 Calorie Liquid Diet on Lean Body Mass and Resting Metabolic Rate"

    As far as the 3 day fast is concerned it is common knowledge in fasting circles that you lose your appetite in 3-5 days. I have personally tried it and you don't feel hungry or compelled to eat at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethink View Post
    If you want to lose more than a pound of fat or half a Kg then you need to cut calories to the 1200-1400 range.

    The reason why I suggested the subway diet is because it is easy and it has worked for me. The food is healthy besides your misgivings and I managed to lose over 1 kg a week while doing cardio every day.

    Furthermore your ideas on starvation mode and catabolism are wrong. Scientific studies prove that people on 800 calorie a day diets with resistance training don't lose a significant amount of muscle mass over a 12 month period. Your ideas are based on the paranoid fears of the authors of misinformation. Some people are so scared of being small that when they lose weight they insist they are losing muscle because they are smaller when its completely due to fat loss.

    Furthermore 3 days of fasting before you begin a diet also works. A 3 day fast is a more effective appetite suppressant than any supplement on the market and you can't criticise this before you try it. After 3 days without eating your metabolism slows by 7% but it recovers once you start eating again. Provided you maintain low calories your appetite doesn't recover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethink View Post
    I can't post links but I can provide the name of an article.

    Regarding catabolism on a very low calorie diet search "Effects of Resistance vs. Aerobic Training Combined
    With an 800 Calorie Liquid Diet on Lean Body Mass and Resting Metabolic Rate"


    As far as the 3 day fast is concerned it is common knowledge in fasting circles that you lose your appetite in 3-5 days. I have personally tried it and you don't feel hungry or compelled to eat at all.
    first....
    This study was done across a 12 week period not 12 months...

    second...
    who knows how close 800 cals was to ANY of these folks previous diets if a washout or standardizing period wasnt initiated first by setting them all at say a 2000cal diet for 12 weeks THEN switching to a VLCD diet of 800cals for 12 weeks.

    every thing else wrong with this study as it applies to us...
    it isnt a decent example of anyone in our position. We are already fit individuals typically, if not "fit" most already exercise. Just initiating a workout routine period alongside an adequate amount of protein can create a GAIN in muscle mass, not just preserving it... also we have no indication at all what the liquid diet consisted of re: macro nutrient distribution, whos to say all these people werent placed into a state of ketosis? this alone also preserves muscle mass. Also this still doesnt show either that fat loss was achieved, so starvation mode could have been hit for some...

    It will take much more then 1 single ambiguous study to convince me... and still has nothing to do with subway, has nothing to do with the fact your generalized comment on a suggested amount of cals (1200-1400) is in the right range for ANYONE.... if this guy is BIG and his body is used to 3000 cals ed then dropping cals THAT drastically will cause his body to hang on to fat rather then use it for energy...

    Im still not interested in starvation for appetite control... properly reduced portions across a period of time does just fine...
    heres your study...

    J Am Coll Nutr. 1999 Apr;18(2):115-21.
    Effects of resistance vs. aerobic training combined with an 800 calorie liquid diet on lean body mass and resting metabolic rate.

    Bryner RW, Ullrich IH, Sauers J, Donley D, Hornsby G, Kolar M, Yeater R.
    Source

    Department of Human Performance and Applied Exercise Science, West Virginia University, Morgantown 26506, USA.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:

    Utilization of very-low-calorie diets (VLCD) for weight loss results in loss of lean body weight (LBW) and a decrease in resting metabolic rate (RMR). The addition of aerobic exercise does not prevent this. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of intensive, high volume resistance training combined with a VLCD on these parameters.
    METHODS:

    Twenty subjects (17 women, three men), mean age 38 years, were randomly assigned to either standard treatment control plus diet (C+D), n = 10, or resistance exercise plus diet (R+D), n = 10. Both groups consumed 800 kcal/day liquid formula diets for 12 weeks. The C+D group exercised 1 hour four times/week by walking, biking or stair climbing. The R+D group performed resistance training 3 days/week at 10 stations increasing from two sets of 8 to 15 repetitions to four sets of 8 to 15 repetitions by 12 weeks. Groups were similar at baseline with respect to weight, body composition, aerobic capacity, and resting metabolic rate.
    RESULTS:

    Maximum oxygen consumption (Max VO2) increased significantly (p<0.05) but equally in both groups. Body weight decreased significantly more (p<0.01) in C+D than R+D. The C+D group lost a significant (p<0.05) amount of LBW (51 to 47 kg). No decrease in LBW was observed in R+D. In addition, R+D had an increase (p<0.05) in RMR O2 ml/kg/min (2.6 to 3.1). The 24 hour RMR decreased (p<0.05) in the C+D group.
    CONCLUSION:

    The addition of an intensive, high volume resistance training program resulted in preservation of LBW and RMR during weight loss with a VLCD.

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    Sourdough - I think you are too hasty in dismissing the result form the study I cited. It's true that the results apply to beginners rather than intermediate trainers but the important part to consider is the differance between the experimental and control group. The control group lost 1 pound of fat free mass for every 4 pounds of fat as is typical of dieting without resistance training. However the experimental group lost no fat free mass. This shows that resistance training rather than the degree of calorie restriction is the most significant determinant of how much fat free mass a person loses.

    As far as the subway diet is concerned you seem to have a specific gripe with this. I suggested it because it worked especially well in my own experience. I lost more than 1 kg a week and didn't notice any loss of muscle.

    In general I think people on this board are too conservative when it comes to diets. Unless a diet is mainly whey shakes, chicken breast and tuna and in the 2500 calorie range people generally disapprove. This may be good for advanced trainers who have a lot of fat free mass but for beginners and intermediate the calories need to be much lower to achieve the minimum 1 pound or half a kg a week.

    Furthermore I haven't seen any evidence that suggests losing more than 1 pound or 1/2 a kg leads to significantly more loss of fat free mass. Most people on this board have a lot of fat to lose unlike advanced trainers who generally only need to lose 12 pounds or 6 kg of fat. If you are very patient and only have a small amount of fat to lose (eg 12 pounds) you can wait 3 months to achieve your goal. However most people on this board are overweight or borderline obese with over 25 pounds or 11 kg to lose. This would take them at least 6 months at a rate of 1 pounds a week and their chances of maintaining this type of discipline over 6 months is slim.

    Most just lose 10 pounds then decide to start bulking again and effectively undo all their effort to gain a few pounds of muscle and maintain an unflattering physique. Staying lean is more important than gaining weight because losing weight is much more difficult. So keeping the weight off in the first place is a top priority.

    I personally believe trainees should lose weight at a rate of 2 pounds or 1 kg a week and gain weight at a maximum of 1 pound or 1/2 a kg a week for beginners and 1/2 a kg or 1/4 of a kg for intermediate and advanced trainers.

    To acheive the above criteria generally low calorie ranges are required and I don't see any reason why such low ranges are a problem unless people can't maintain it because of hunger.

    Lastly on the issue of hunger, when I discovered that a 3 day fast eliminates your appetite I vowed never to diet again without doing this first. This is because it completely eliminates your appetite unlike anything else. I have experimented with nutrient timing, tried high fibre and high protein diets and tried many appetite suppresants marketed as supplements but none of these solutions compared to the complete elimination of appetite that a 3 day fast offered. You simply have no appetite to speak of. You can prepare tempting food all day without feeling like tasting it simply because your body doesn't want food.

    You have to decide to eat rather than feeling compelled to do it. This is why I suggest people try it because it literally makes dieting simple without struggle. However to keep the appetite loss you can't eat more than 1200 calories a day, otherwise your appetite returns.
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    Lots good info here
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