My NEW AND IMPROVED diet-

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    My NEW AND IMPROVED diet-


    Heres my diet with the foods and ratios. Goal is a slow and steady body recomp/extremly lean bulk. If i stop seeing progress here, i will up the calories another 200, but for now i think it looks good like this.

    8:00: 22g Protein, 43g Carbs, 1g Fat-Go lean cereal w/ skim milk

    9:30: 16g Protein, 21g Carbs, 11g Fat-Oatmeal + 2 eggs

    12 72g Protein, 52g Carbs, 9g Fat-Bobo's secret food #1

    1:30: Workout

    2:30: 50g Protein, 75g Carbs, 0g fat-Shake w/ creatine

    3:45: 16g Protein, 36g Carbs, 4g Fat-Sandwich w/ mustard and 2 pieces of lean ham

    5 50g Protein, 4g Carbs, 10g Fat-True protein shake w/ 1/2 serving flax

    7:00: 73g Protein, 0g carbs, 8g Fat-Bobo's secret food #2

    9:00: 46g Protein, 0g Carbs, 8g Fat-Chicken breast

    11:00: 50g Protein, 4g Carbs, 16g Fat-True Protein shake w/ flax

    Totals:
    Calories: 3170
    Protein: 394g (50%)
    Carbs: 237g (30%)
    Fat: 70g (20%)
    Last edited by JonBlaze; 08-24-2004 at 11:23 PM.

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    Geez...


    I didn't know I had my own line of food.
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    I think it looks okay man. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to add in some aditional veggies, and posssibly some kind of natural fiber.....I like to chow on corn on the cob, it always keeps me regular. Wish I had more time to disect.....LOL...keep up with the monitoring each week as said before, and you'll be able to keep recomping while losing BF....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    I think it looks okay man. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to add in some aditional veggies
    I'll throw in a little bit of broccoli.
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    imo, bbers are some of the most educated, on the vanguard people in regards to health and nutrition.

    with one glaring deficiency

    fruits and vegetables.

    imo, the antioxidants, phytos, etc. from fruits and vegetables make a BIG difference.

    if one is going keto (which you are not) i can understand the lack of fruit, but since you're not. i can't

    fruits with deep, rich colors are usually best in regard to nutrients - black plums, pink grapefruit, etc.

    imo, if you aren't eating at least a couple of different kinds of fruit in a day, you're selling yourself short.

    and i agree about the brocolli, and vegetables in general.

    calorically sparse, nutrient dense.

    i have a juicer, and often get my veggies that way.

    there are just WAY too many things in fruits and veggies, many as yet undiscovered or recently so, that are beneficial

    your mama was right!
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    Hey jjjd, are those juicers any good man? And does the juices taste good at all? What kind do you have/what brand, etc? I was thinking of getting one of those for that very reason....

    Maybe if I get one, you can give me some recipe's....and what fruits, etc, to use...
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    the juicer ROCKS.

    i heartily, strongly, and 100% recommend a masticating/auger type juicer vs. a centrifugal juicer.

    see, for example, the omega 8002 (what i have) or the champion juicer.

    the omega is one of the few that can do wheatgrass (w/o a seperate attachment or a seperate unit). it does REALLY well on hard vegetables (beets, carrots, brocolli, asparagus, celery) and fruits (apples, pears, etc.). it's not great with citrus, but it's pretty good.

    it is SO much easier to eat 10 carrots, and 2 apples when you make them into juice. and it tastes really good.

    the only drawback is that cleanup is a bit of a pain. moreso than a blender, but not bad

    i try to eat 3-5 pieces of fruit every day (like 2 plums, a peach, an apple, and a grapefruit) and then some veggies.
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    isn't the omega 8002 like $300? I could never afford that!

    Know of anything more practical?
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    You can't afford a $300 juicer, but you can afford a gh/igf-1 cycle, LOL! j/k.....thats prolly why you can't afford it.....I wouldn't pay that much either bro. I agree with adding more fruit and veggies......I also should follow that advice, because I know I dont eat enough of'em.....making what jjj said true about most of us.....I know I mainly focus on protein.......everything else is just filler....other than that, diet looks sound.

    P.S. I have my own secret food too.
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    JonBlaze, are you using one of Bobo's diet plans?
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverSurfer
    JonBlaze, are you using one of Bobo's diet plans?
    No i'm not, i'm sure his is MUCH better that anything i can come up with, he knows his ****.

    I just picked his brain for 3 months prior to him becoming a trainer, at which point i put together a decent diet. Problem is we barely scratched the surface, so i doubt it'll get the results his does, but good enough for me.
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    What's bobo's secret food?
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    Rice cakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Rice cakes.
    Might as well of said cardboard.
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    You know I was kidding right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fieyaa
    What's bobo's secret food?
    He has like 3-4, i only eat 2 however. His meal #1 and #2 i have listed are dif meals. They're good ass meals too, i get around 70-75g of protein from each of those two meals. W/o them i could never get anywhere near 400g of protein a day, no way in hell.

    I wish i could tell u what they were but thats classified info. Either you have to sign up w/ bobo, or become a mod and snoop around in his private forum when he goes to sleep.
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    Bunch of ingrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Rice cakes.
    Didnt know rice cakes had so much protein
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    Its the Atkins Brand..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Rice cakes.
    Bobo- You have to be careful what you say around here. I was getting my shoes on and getting ready to go to the market...

    Bobo's Diet:
    Chicken breasts (check)
    Eggs (check)
    Rice cakes (check)
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    Hell I'll tell you all the foods I use. Thats easy. Its the way you position meals and calories that is the tricky part for most.

    I should have a contest to see who can guess the closest to my personal meal plan. The winner gets....something, I don't know yet.
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    an all expense paid date w/ your girlfriend?
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    Umm...



    no.
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    The secret food HAS to be some sort of meat. I don't see any other way you could have that much protein, no carbs, and minimal fat. My guess is some sort of fish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBU
    The secret food HAS to be some sort of meat. I don't see any other way you could have that much protein, no carbs, and minimal fat. My guess is some sort of fish.
    Grouper and Pollack are both around 90% protien, 10% fat 0% Carbs, Ostrich has similar breakdown but im guessing its not one food but a group of foods.

    Come on Bobo give us a clue!
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    Ostrich....yeah thats it.


    Honestly I don't know what he is using. Your guess is as good as mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Ostrich....yeah thats it.


    Honestly I don't know what he is using. Your guess is as good as mine.
    I have heard you mention 'smart food choices' before now though, dont suppose your willing to elaborate a little on that?

    Few more of lifes little challenges to deal with then i will be hoping to sign up and find out for myself!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBU
    The secret food HAS to be some sort of meat. I don't see any other way you could have that much protein, no carbs, and minimal fat. My guess is some sort of fish.
    I have to say:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...postid=3753046
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead1987
    I didn't realize Salmon had so many carbs.

    BTW I will sell Bobo's diet plan for $19.95 to whoever is interested.
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    I doubt it's bobo's super special secret food, BUT:

    Nothing packs the mass on like the lentil stew! Put some lean beef and various veggies in there (Swiss chard is great, as is broccoli, etc). I grow like a weed when I eat my beef lentil stew every day. IMO lentils are the best carb source bar none.

    A mixture of ground calf liver and lean (95%) hamburger meat is also a real winner - a healthier burger you'll never find. Kinda harsh on the cholesterol if you have congenital cholesterol problems though. Liver smells like ass when it's being cooked too... Use plenty of liquid smoke and tabasco to cover the smell, and you'll be fine.

    Ex Nihilo
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonBlaze
    Heres my diet with the foods and ratios. Goal is a slow and steady body recomp/extremly lean bulk. If i stop seeing progress here, i will up the calories another 200, but for now i think it looks good like this.

    8:00: 22g Protein, 43g Carbs, 1g Fat-Go lean cereal w/ skim milk

    9:30: 16g Protein, 21g Carbs, 11g Fat-Oatmeal + 2 eggs

    12 72g Protein, 52g Carbs, 9g Fat-Bobo's secret food #1

    1:30: Workout

    2:30: 50g Protein, 75g Carbs, 0g fat-Shake w/ creatine

    3:45: 16g Protein, 36g Carbs, 4g Fat-Sandwich w/ mustard and 2 pieces of lean ham

    5 50g Protein, 4g Carbs, 10g Fat-True protein shake w/ 1/2 serving flax

    7:00: 73g Protein, 0g carbs, 8g Fat-Bobo's secret food #2

    9:00: 46g Protein, 0g Carbs, 8g Fat-Chicken breast

    11:00: 50g Protein, 4g Carbs, 16g Fat-True Protein shake w/ flax

    Totals:
    Calories: 3170
    Protein: 394g (50%)
    Carbs: 237g (30%)
    Fat: 70g (20%)
    The ratios look fine, I'm guessing this bulk isn't in any way androgen assisted? If not, you might want to increase the fats a tiny bit at the expense of protein (I know! Heresy!) - even in the most poorly controlled studies I've read, there's been no improvement in nitrogen retention past ~2.5g/kg, though there is no data on the combination of AAS use and protein intake that I've seen. Fats play a number of roles in the body, and I'm not certain that your hormonal mileau will be operating at 100% efficiency with 70g a day of dietary fat intake (obviously this is much less of a factor with exogenous androgens).

    Also (and I defer entirely to lyle mcdonald in this matter as I have not seen the research myself, but I trust him for the most part) your body will tend to partition calories towards muscle or fat based on a number of factors, and the ratio at which this partitioning occurs is referred to as the 'p' ratio. This ratio seems to be fairly static, with fluctuations based on where you are in relation to your set-point. The implication of this is that in the event that, during a lean bulk, you are not gaining muscle at your optimal rate (theoretically about ~3.3lbs of actual muscle tissue growth a month for your typical person, if diet and training were perfect, not accounting for AAS usage), you are still partitioning calories between fat and muscle in much the same manner as if you were eating more food and growing muscle more quickly, thus the ratio of fat to muscle gained is the same, and you are just slowing down your muscular development by eating fewer calories. Obviously, depending on genetic factors the actual amount of muscle you can grow in a month will vary, and we can't expect training to be 100% optimal, but if you can keep high quality records, you might experiment with pushing the calories higher and playing with your training protocol to see if you are getting the best results possible. Exercise is truly the king of nutrient partitioning agents - see how far you can push it.

    I'm personally of the opinion that the great majority of people undereat, undersleep, and undertrain - then they turn right around and piss away the majority of their (usually meager) gains by dieting wrong or trying to go too far below their physiological set-point... Then they wonder why they're 6'2" 205 and are putting on maybe 4lbs in a good year. For most people, staying very lean and growing muscle at the same time requires a very drastic androgen load (700+mg of tren a week, anyone?) and if you want to make rapid progress without heavy drug usage you're going to have to accept being a little "husky" most of the time.

    Of course, you can always just alternate dbol/tren/test/eq with DNP and forget all of this

    Just my two cents,

    Ex Nihilo
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    and if you want to make rapid progress without heavy drug usage you're going to have to accept being a little "husky" most of the time.

    I agree with everything in your post besides this statement. Theres no reason why lifters need to go through life "husky". I've been a heavy guy my entire life and it sucks. Not only from a social standpoint, but I can tell you first hand that being "husky" has been very hard on my joints. I wake up every morning listening to every bone in my body cracking at the age of 21 because I've been dragging around extra fat my entire life. I'm going down and I will never go back up..And if I am 205 and lean, but only add 4 or 5 pounds to my frame every year, by the time I am 31 I'll look pretty good around 250. Slow gains are the best gains.

    Sorry to bring so far off topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    The ratios look fine, I'm guessing this bulk isn't in any way androgen assisted? If not, you might want to increase the fats a tiny bit at the expense of protein (I know! Heresy!) - even in the most poorly controlled studies I've read, there's been no improvement in nitrogen retention past ~2.5g/kg, though there is no data on the combination of AAS use and protein intake that I've seen. Fats play a number of roles in the body, and I'm not certain that your hormonal mileau will be operating at 100% efficiency with 70g a day of dietary fat intake (obviously this is much less of a factor with exogenous androgens).

    Also (and I defer entirely to lyle mcdonald in this matter as I have not seen the research myself, but I trust him for the most part) your body will tend to partition calories towards muscle or fat based on a number of factors, and the ratio at which this partitioning occurs is referred to as the 'p' ratio. This ratio seems to be fairly static, with fluctuations based on where you are in relation to your set-point. The implication of this is that in the event that, during a lean bulk, you are not gaining muscle at your optimal rate (theoretically about ~3.3lbs of actual muscle tissue growth a month for your typical person, if diet and training were perfect, not accounting for AAS usage), you are still partitioning calories between fat and muscle in much the same manner as if you were eating more food and growing muscle more quickly, thus the ratio of fat to muscle gained is the same, and you are just slowing down your muscular development by eating fewer calories. Obviously, depending on genetic factors the actual amount of muscle you can grow in a month will vary, and we can't expect training to be 100% optimal, but if you can keep high quality records, you might experiment with pushing the calories higher and playing with your training protocol to see if you are getting the best results possible. Exercise is truly the king of nutrient partitioning agents - see how far you can push it.

    I'm personally of the opinion that the great majority of people undereat, undersleep, and undertrain - then they turn right around and piss away the majority of their (usually meager) gains by dieting wrong or trying to go too far below their physiological set-point... Then they wonder why they're 6'2" 205 and are putting on maybe 4lbs in a good year. For most people, staying very lean and growing muscle at the same time requires a very drastic androgen load (700+mg of tren a week, anyone?) and if you want to make rapid progress without heavy drug usage you're going to have to accept being a little "husky" most of the time.

    Of course, you can always just alternate dbol/tren/test/eq with DNP and forget all of this

    Just my two cents,

    Ex Nihilo
    Fats do play major roles but the amounts needed to perform these roles is grossly exaggerated, especially when the fats are in healthy proportions.

    I personally beleive people overeat, undersleep and training is relative to the individual. THere are too many people consuming 4-5k+ calories and turning around and trying to cut for 9 months out of the year because of such hugh calories intakes. There is a reason 90% of my clients are trying to lose weight rather than gain and the majority are 220+.

    I also believe that people can make quality gains without being "husky". The people that prescribe to those theories that this sport is for the genetically blessed and we should accept our fate do so because they usually have not accomplished their goals because the probably concetrate on the minutia withoth following through with the basics. This doesn't mean you exnihilo as I donn't know your personal view on these things but with most who I've encountered that believe these things, its seems to be the case.

    Thats my buffalo nickel...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Fats do play major roles but the amounts needed to perform these roles is grossly exaggerated, especially when the fats are in healthy proportions.

    I personally beleive people overeat, undersleep and training is relative to the individual. THere are too many people consuming 4-5k+ calories and turning around and trying to cut for 9 months out of the year because of such hugh calories intakes. There is a reason 90% of my clients are trying to lose weight rather than gain and the majority are 220+.

    I also believe that people can make quality gains without being "husky". The people that prescribe to those theories that this sport is for the genetically blessed and we should accept our fate do so because they usually have not accomplished their goals because the probably concetrate on the minutia withoth following through with the basics. This doesn't mean you exnihilo as I donn't know your personal view on these things but with most who I've encountered that believe these things, its seems to be the case.

    Thats my buffalo nickel...
    As far as the fats - I don't really know either way. I read back to his other post that he's on igf-1 so in this case I'd certainly go with the additional protein, though in the "normal" case it certainly would not hurt to switch out for a little fat (of course, as you increase your caloric excess I would certainly keep fat in check).

    As far as the whole bulk-then-cut routine, androgens aside, I'm of the personal feeling (in general) that you can gain 20-30lbs in a year, and properly cut down to keep half of that, or you can put on perhaps 5-6lbs and keep it mostly lean. For a mostly natural trainee there seem to be some clear benefits (some of which have been elucidated in set point theory, some of which still seem to be nebulous but supported by large volumes of anecdotal evidence) to maintaining bodyfat at setpoint or slightly higher. Doesn't mean that you have to walk around fat like a powerlifter, but honestly I think most people need a reality check when they think that they'll be able to make their best gains while staying consistently below 15% (genetically gifted and AAS usage aside). Being a natural super-endo I usually end up getting to around 24% before I put the breaks on things and do a reversal, though I get great results this way as far as increases in LBM.

    I'll be finishing a diet run in about 4 weeks, then I'll take a nice avatar snap (which will also serve as the before pic for my upcoming AAS cycle). I think for someone who's mostly natural my results speak well for themselves, I don't mind getting fat but in doing so I've managed to pack on a lot of mass, and I like to be lean but not so much that it hinders my gains to any significant degree.

    Current stats: 248 glycogen depleted @ 17.5%, 6'1", 19" arm, 30" thigh, 52" chest, 37" waist

    EDIT: *9 months* of calorie restriction isn't cutting, that's a an obese fatass on a diet and when I refer to the undereat, undersleep and undertrain, I'm talking about the 90% of the guys in the gym who are maybe 200@12% who never make any significant progress from year to year.

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    There is no way you need to go to that high of a bf%. 24% is way too high. In fact I rarely ever go above 10-12% when I bulk and I pack it on fairly easily as I am mildy insulin resistant (runs in the family).

    If you are getting that fat while bulking then there is something wrong with your diet. Even being a sõper-endo does not justify that much gain in bf%. You could do this in a much smarter way and still make the same gains.

    If you actually think this is how it has to be, I feel bad because it certainly does not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    There is no way you need to go to that high of a bf%. 24% is way too high. In fact I rarely ever go above 10-12% when I bulk and I pack it on fairly easily as I am mildy insulin resistant (runs in the family).

    If you are getting that fat while bulking then there is something wrong with your diet. Even being a super-endo does not justify that much gain in bf%. You could do this in a much smarter way and still make the same gains.

    If you actually think this is how it has to be, I feel bad because it certainly does not.
    I don't think that's how it has to be, that's just how it's been (I tend to overeat and lift really hard in respond to life stress ). I have no doubt that I could pack it on just about as well without going above ~16-17% bodyfat. I'm mostly referring to people who are 190-200 and feel they have reached their "genetic limit".

    You are a lucky man (not to denigrate your level of expertise - I just don't think everyone can do that) if you can make gains and stay around 10-12% at your size without AAS. With moderate AAS use, I agree that is totally doable with some smarts and discipline for most people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieTrying
    I agree with everything in your post besides this statement. Theres no reason why lifters need to go through life "husky". I've been a heavy guy my entire life and it sucks. Not only from a social standpoint, but I can tell you first hand that being "husky" has been very hard on my joints. I wake up every morning listening to every bone in my body cracking at the age of 21 because I've been dragging around extra fat my entire life. I'm going down and I will never go back up..And if I am 205 and lean, but only add 4 or 5 pounds to my frame every year, by the time I am 31 I'll look pretty good around 250. Slow gains are the best gains.

    Sorry to bring so far off topic.
    I feel ya bro. If you're growing steadily and you're willing to be very very patient, that's cool. I'm impatient!
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    Gotcha. I thought you believed thats how it HAS to be.

    As far as doing it I think anyone can do it once they realize how to diet properly at low bf%. It is much different than when you are in your mid to high teens. You have to realize that when I start to bulk I'm usually around 6-7% so I do add on some fat but I limit the amount while still maximing gains. I don't think I'm lucky (as my before pics show). It took a good amount of time to find what works for me in terms of diet.

    The majority of my gains are natural but I have used AAS for 3 bulking cycles. Two of those were done wrong. I used the majority of AAS while cutting and made many mistakes doing so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Gotcha. I thought you believed thats how it HAS to be.

    As far as doing it I think anyone can do it once they realize how to diet properly at low bf%. It is much different than when you are in your mid to high teens. You have to realize that when I start to bulk I'm usually around 6-7% so I do add on some fat but I limit the amount while still maximing gains. I don't think I'm lucky (as my before pics show). It took a good amount of time to find what works for me in terms of diet.

    The majority of my gains are natural but I have used AAS for 3 bulking cycles. Two of those were done wrong. I used the majority of AAS while cutting and made many mistakes doing so.
    Heh, I am so unwilling to spend the time and effort to get down to 6-7%. If I wanted to show it off I'd need to shave, and tan, and what not... Not my bag baby I'm happy being massive and when I'm not so fat as to turn the ladies off

    I have my doubts about the average person being able to cycle between 7%-12% and make any significant progress in the long term without AAS, but as that is not my area of expertise I will defer to your here.

    I'm planning on hitting up the sauce starting in Oct till new years. My goal is to get my total LBM up to between 232-236 and keep my total weight under 270. That'll make a nice avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    I have my doubts about the average person being able to cycle between 7%-12% and make any significant progress in the long term without AAS, but as that is not my area of expertise I will defer to your here.
    It can be done naturally. I train natural competitors both male and female (although they rarely get real low). Its just how you diet at those bf%.
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