Cut calories or Cut carbs?

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    Cut calories or Cut carbs?


    Either approach should work right?
    What have u guys found successful with cutting carbs? What's the method like for cutting them?

    Read this (see below).
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    So is this saying that the fat burning properties of the Atkins diet are made up by the restriction of calories? If you are on the atkins diet yet you restrict your carb free calorie intake down to 1600 with a BMR or 2100 calories you aren't burning more fat off your body then just a calorie restricting diet down to 1600 calories? Its hard to understand the benefits of the Atkins diet when they say that it switches you into "fat burning mode"...I suppose its harder to restrict calories with the Atkins diet because the caloric density of the foods that you tend to eat on the Atkins diet are higher so restricting both is impossible. I suppose I have to try a calorie restriction diet in order to find out how my body reacts to both because I have successfully used the Atkins diet to loose weight in the past but I have never successfully completed a calorie restricting diet. Has anyone ever done this type of comparison with these 2 diets before?
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    That conclusion is moronic. Cutting calories is the only thing that will make a difference. In order to cut calories, you may have to cut carbs, as maintaining proper protein and fat intake is essential for preserving muscle while cutting. Cutting carbs, however, is not a necessary condition to losing fat, whereas cutting calories is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owlicks
    That conclusion is moronic. Cutting calories is the only thing that will make a difference. In order to cut calories, you may have to cut carbs, as maintaining proper protein and fat intake is essential for preserving muscle while cutting. Cutting carbs, however, is not a necessary condition to losing fat, whereas cutting calories is.
    What's ya daily carb intake like?
    What would u consider low, high & moderate for your self?
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    strength and power athletes: ketogenic diet 5-10%
    endurance and high aerobic athletes i.e cyclists and runners: low/moderate 20-30% carb

    work out your BMR less 300 kcal for starters then go from there. Dont be agressive to early. Find your feet.

    calories in and out matter but make em quality...stick to whole foods. better value and better end results. helps control insulin levels te least processed the food is i.e a shake compared to 1 oz of chicken breast boiled
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    What's ya daily carb intake like?
    What would u consider low, high & moderate for your self?
    I agree with runner_79 for the most part. For me personally, my breakdown on lifting days is more or less 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat -- and on non-lifting days it's about 25% carbs/50% protein/25% fat. As far as the actual numbers, on non-lifting days I take in ~2000 cal and under 150 carbs (the majority of them being complex as opposed to fructose), and on lifting days I take in ~2400 cal and 250 carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owlicks

    I agree with runner_79 for the most part. For me personally, my breakdown on lifting days is more or less 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat -- and on non-lifting days it's about 25% carbs/50% protein/25% fat. As far as the actual numbers, on non-lifting days I take in ~2000 cal and under 150 carbs (the majority of them being complex as opposed to fructose), and on lifting days I take in ~2400 cal and 250 carbs.
    How we go about arriving at a set point of fat loss is individual...
    You may be metabolically positioned to use more carbs and be efficient where as others may not be...
    The more efficient you are at using carbs as energy and not converting to fat, the better you are off.
    For the mainstream, mod to low carb is fine and that alone can be the deficit(lack of carbs) where are all others remain at n=1
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    How we go about arriving at a set point of fat loss is individual...
    You may be metabolically positioned to use more carbs and be efficient where as others may not be...
    The more efficient you are at using carbs as energy and not converting to fat, the better you are off.
    For the mainstream, mod to low carb is fine and that alone can be the deficit(lack of carbs) where are all others remain at n=1
    I disagree. In fact, my carb intake on workout days is still too low. YOU WILL NOT GET FAT from carb intake, so long as you are below your maintenance calorie level. You will, however, have trouble putting on mass if complex carbs do not make up a significant portion of your diet at least on lifting days. To reiterate, CARB INTAKE ALONE WILL NOT MAKE YOU FAT, but if you are trying to cut, carbs are the first area you should look to cut in your dietary plan because you simply can't afford to sacrifice the fat or protein.
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    Would u say a regular white potato is complex carbs or no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by owlicks View Post
    I disagree. In fact, my carb intake on workout days is still too low. YOU WILL NOT GET FAT from carb intake, so long as you are below your maintenance calorie level. You will, however, have trouble putting on mass if complex carbs do not make up a significant portion of your diet at least on lifting days. To reiterate, CARB INTAKE ALONE WILL NOT MAKE YOU FAT, but if you are trying to cut, carbs are the first area you should look to cut in your dietary plan because you simply can't afford to sacrifice the fat or protein.
    They can if you eat the wrong ones at the wrong time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Would u say a regular white potato is complex carbs or no?
    White potatoes are complex carbs, but they are higher on the glycemic index than sweet potatoes, therefore they will cause your blood sugar level to rise more rapidly than sweet potatoes. Read: white potatoes are more useful in a post-workout meal than at other times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    They can if you eat the wrong ones at the wrong time.
    Please elaborate?
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    Calories in Vs calories out is ultimately what it comes down to. What the calories consist of is important, however protein and fat should be the primary concerns and carbs make up the the rest of the calories. Sticking to the basic rules of cutting, i.e 1 to 1.5g of protein per pound of bw and .4g of fat per pound of bw and a calorific deficit, it makes sense that the carb intake will naturally be a lot lower.

    Basically, count calories not carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owlicks View Post
    That conclusion is moronic. Cutting calories is the only thing that will make a difference. In order to cut calories, you may have to cut carbs, as maintaining proper protein and fat intake is essential for preserving muscle while cutting. Cutting carbs, however, is not a necessary condition to losing fat, whereas cutting calories is.
    Didn't realize this had basically been said. Basically, +1.
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    Carbs is the best option imo, kick in ketosis, keep dietary fat up, protien will be easily taken in and you get shredded also as long as your fats high enough you'll start producing more test
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockxxheed
    Carbs is the best option imo, kick in ketosis, keep dietary fat up, protien will be easily taken in and you get shredded also as long as your fats high enough you'll start producing more test
    The zone I think is more for me 40c/30f/30p
    What's your opinion on that?
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    They can if you eat the wrong ones at the wrong time
    not true

    meal/nutrient timing/frequency is fairly irrelevant
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday39 View Post
    not true

    meal/nutrient timing/frequency is fairly irrelevant
    ^^^ This. Keeping carbs around workout times is the ideal place to put them, but beyond that.....it makes little difference. Type of carb....or placement of carbs. Stick to a solid, balanced diet of protein/carbs/fats......reduce calories and train. Simple as that.
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    I believe you guys as long as you're hitting everything on the daily & training you should be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday39 View Post
    not true

    meal/nutrient timing/frequency is fairly irrelevant
    You're wrong, it can make a difference especially to those who are carb sensitive. Taking in either massive amounts of carbs or higher insulinogenic carbs at all times of the day will keep insulin high, promoting fat storage.

    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    ^^^ This. Keeping carbs around workout times is the ideal place to put them, but beyond that.....
    Yeah, exactly. It does matter. Taking in carbs peri-workout (pre, intra, post), and at breakfast if you wish(whatever time that may be for you) is most optimal.

    I don't have qualms about the macro breakdown of a diet. Saying that when you take in carbs and what kinds is an idiotic statement. Half of america eats at maintenance or below but are as big as a truck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia
    You're wrong, it can make a difference especially to those who are carb sensitive. Taking in either massive amounts of carbs or higher insulinogenic carbs at all times of the day will keep insulin high, promoting fat storage.

    Yeah, exactly. It does matter. Taking in carbs peri-workout (pre, intra, post), and at breakfast if you wish(whatever time that may be for you) is most optimal.

    I don't have qualms about the macro breakdown of a diet. Saying that when you take in carbs and what kinds is an idiotic statement. Half of america eats at maintenance or below but are as big as a truck.
    Yeah half America is also eating empty calories and not exercising.
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    Cut cals and carbs.
    you can lead a man to knowledge, but you cant make him think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnitup122
    Cut cals and carbs.
    I gotcha
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    When u drop some carbs you will INITIALLY drop water weight which will help to start off...win win
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    Think what I'm working on is 40/30/30 the zone. See how that works
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    Make them sweet potato or yams and starchy veggies instead of grains...
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    Make them sweet potato or yams and starchy veggies instead of grains...
    I've been doing that sweet potatos mostly. I do have some whole wheat toast & oatmeal every so often.

    Runner ur pretty smart it seems is that u in the avi?
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    I love to read and have many people to thank though with the paleo advocacy. Nutrition and metabolism.
    Yes it is me
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    I love to read and have many people to thank though with the paleo advocacy. Nutrition and metabolism.
    Yes it is me
    Maybe I can't tell by the pics. Do u lift u look rather lean...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Maybe I can't tell by the pics. Do u lift u look rather lean...
    I'm a runner... Lol

    I do strength based 2 day split for running stride and injury prevention...
    Cheers Cuz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    You're wrong, it can make a difference especially to those who are carb sensitive. Taking in either massive amounts of carbs or higher insulinogenic carbs at all times of the day will keep insulin high, promoting fat storage.
    It seems like everyone on this forum is on this "insulin-fat-storage-dogma-thing". Meal timing is really a much lesser issue than people make it out to be. I do agree that the MOST OPTIMAL place to eat is an hour (give or take) before and an hour (give or take) after your workouts. Beyond that, whether you stack the rest of your carbs/calories at breakfast, lunch, or right before bed makes very little difference in your physique. The type of carbs you consume makes very little difference in body composition. The extremist will always argue something ridiculous like "what if someone eats pure honey all day long?" or something stupid like that. But bringing the discussion back to reality......it doesnt matter if you have white rice or brown, sweet potato or white, bread and pasta or oatmeal. Variety is the spice of life. And if you are a highly active person in a calorie deficit insulin control is not really worth worrying about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    I don't have qualms about the macro breakdown of a diet. Saying that when you take in carbs and what kinds is an idiotic statement. Half of america eats at maintenance or below but are as big as a truck.
    Perhaps half of america is as big as a truck, but that is because they are eating ABOVE their maintenance calories. The term "maintenance" means the caloric intake required to maintain bodyweight. If half of America were eating below maintenance (ie. by defintition = losing weight) we would see a lot more skinny people walking around.
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    Mate,
    Just be smart with your timing that's it. Plain and simple. Breakfast. Pre and post workout...simple!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    It seems like everyone on this forum is on this "insulin-fat-storage-dogma-thing". Meal timing is really a much lesser issue than people make it out to be. I do agree that the MOST OPTIMAL place to eat is an hour (give or take) before and an hour (give or take) after your workouts. Beyond that, whether you stack the rest of your carbs/calories at breakfast, lunch, or right before bed makes very little difference in your physique. The type of carbs you consume makes very little difference in body composition. The extremist will always argue something ridiculous like "what if someone eats pure honey all day long?" or something stupid like that. But bringing the discussion back to reality......it doesnt matter if you have white rice or brown, sweet potato or white, bread and pasta or oatmeal. Variety is the spice of life.
    I can't tell if you're trying to have a discussion here or if you're having an argument for argument's sake. I was saying type of carbs and when you take them matter, and you're saying they do but that they don't? Fact is they do. And the difference between those food items you listed is too minimal, obviously, which is why I specified type of carb matters. I don't want someone thinking eating poptarts or a snickers with that chicken breast every few hours is ok so long as he keeps to his caloric needs. It's not. That carb choice is completely unhealthy, and this is not only backed with science but by the thousands upon thousands of poor attempts at cutting by those who maintain inconsistent diets. Thus my first point: carb choices matter.

    Why timing? Exercise and fasting has an effect on insulin resistance, bringing it down. Sparing us the science, mostly because I've had too long of a day, the more sensitive you are to insulin, the more you drive nutrients into muscle cells and not adipose tissue. Which is again why eating that icecream right before bed, while it sounds like a good idea, probably isn't if you're trying to get shredded.

    And your sig mentions you're a pro natural bodybuilder. So what is your own personal approach to your own diet if you're trying to cut to say 8, or 7, or 6% bf? Eating whatever, whenever?

    Lastly, I love variety in my diet, so don't get me wrong there

    And if you are a highly active person in a calorie deficit insulin control is not really worth worrying about.
    But that is on a case by case basis. That's not the way it always is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Mate,
    Just be smart with your timing that's it. Plain and simple. Breakfast. Pre and post workout...simple!!!!!!
    Basically
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    then when things start to plateau. you can use carbs to kick start the cutting phase too. Speed up metabolism and make for more hunger which will satisfy a carb 'craving' but then in turn can help make you look fuller and vascular...sorta like the Cyclic low carb stick...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post

    And your sig mentions you're a pro natural bodybuilder. So what is your own personal approach to your own diet if you're trying to cut to say 8, or 7, or 6% bf? Eating whatever, whenever?

    .
    It seems like I am getting into this discussion on a number of threads and people are thinking im freaking nuts or something. But I have simply been taught by other great professionals and have learned to ignore a lot of the bro-science dogma. My approach to dieting is that there are no foods off limits to me. I have set macro-nutrient targets I hit every day and if the food choice fits within those numbers I eat it. Do I eat snickers bars every day? No. But I do eat ice cream before bed just about every night. Well, its frozen yogurt, but whatever. I cover my micro-nutritional bases and get a good amount of fiber in my diet but I eat pretty much whatever I want. And I am naturally very endo morphic. I could be 10 lbs heavier by the end of the week if I wanted to be. I put on weight very fast if I am not diligently tracking my calorie intake. And I can assure you thats all it comes down to......counting and tracking. Insulin control is not even on my radar screen and I achieve low single digit BF percentages. As you lean out, insulin control is even less of an issue because you naturally become very insulin sensitive. And even if insulin should spike in a given meal....who the heck cares? You are in an overall deficit so therefore insulin falls when the carbs have been processed and now you are back into "fat burning mode". It all comes out in the end. We store fat, we burn it, we store, we burn.....all day long. Its the NET STORAGE that makes a difference in body composition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    The zone I think is more for me 40c/30f/30p
    What's your opinion on that?
    If it works for you go for it, you have to experiment it took me a 6 months of tweaking to find out what I needed. If that doesn't hit the spot for you try reading up on the anabolic diet 2.0
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    Here is my experience.
    I Am a low carber. Beloved in wholegrains. Had them post w/o for brekky. Kept burping.
    My lower stomach looked bloated.

    Dropped all grains.
    Lower bloat gone but I have some sucutaneous fat there. I also dropped 2kg from 77.3 to 75kg. I now eat yams and sweet potato instead and hold the weight.
    No bloat, feel much better and best of all,



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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    Here is my experience.
    I Am a low carber. Beloved in wholegrains. Had them post w/o for brekky. Kept burping.
    My lower stomach looked bloated.

    Dropped all grains.
    Lower bloat gone but I have some sucutaneous fat there. I also dropped 2kg from 77.3 to 75kg. I now eat yams and sweet potato instead and hold the weight.
    No bloat, feel much better and best of all,

    NO BURPING
    Glad I don't have this problem. I'm running late for work. So it's some chick fil a for breakfast. Have not had garbage all week and I usually wait until Saturday or Sunday but not today....
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Here is my experience.
    I Am a low carber. Beloved in wholegrains. Had them post w/o for brekky. Kept burping.
    My lower stomach looked bloated.

    Dropped all grains.
    Lower bloat gone but I have some sucutaneous fat there. I also dropped 2kg from 77.3 to 75kg. I now eat yams and sweet potato instead and hold the weight.
    No bloat, feel much better and best of all,



    NO BURPING
    Sounds like you are a bit intolerant to gluten perhaps? I have a similar reaction to potatoe skins. Man, does it make for some serious gas issues! LOL. I peel the potatoes and im fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Glad I don't have this problem. I'm running late for work. So it's some chick fil a for breakfast. Have not had garbage all week and I usually wait until Saturday or Sunday but not today....
    Beauty about chic-fil-a is that they list all their nutrition in a pretty handy format.....and you can actually eat pretty well there. When I go there, ill get the grilled sammich, a small potato wedge, and a diet coke and come out with a pretty balanced meal macro-wise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr

    Sounds like you are a bit intolerant to gluten perhaps? I have a similar reaction to potatoe skins. Man, does it make for some serious gas issues! LOL. I peel the potatoes and im fine.

    Beauty about chic-fil-a is that they list all their nutrition in a pretty handy format.....and you can actually eat pretty well there. When I go there, ill get the grilled sammich, a small potato wedge, and a diet coke and come out with a pretty balanced meal macro-wise.
    Yeah. I ate a bacon biscuit and some hasbrowns and a sweet tea. I think I'll be alright.
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