Losing weight - I think Milk is hindering my efforts

protoculture

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I have a feeling that milk/dairy could be causing me problems in cutting. I use milk a lot in protein shakes, like cheese etc...

If this is true and I were to go off milk entirely .... how soon could I expect to see results in the mirror? 2 weeks?

I am trying to gauge how quickly one can gauge if a certain food type is causing them issue ( how soon they might expect to see results ).

I seem to recall that when I was at my leanest, I was also drinking skim milk.
 
mattrag

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You could be sensitive to milk. It can be pro inflammatory. If possible try dropping it for 30 days then take a pic, note how you feel, then drink some milk.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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It has certain muscle building properties in it... Epi growth factor is what I think it's called from memory.
 
Iron Warrior

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Have you calculated your calories ? It could also be that the milk in your shakes is giving you excess calories perhaps ?
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Ahhhh. Basic!
True... Excess caloric intake and possible systemic inflammation
 

protoculture

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There was a time when I fasted and generally ate very little for months. So I know for sure my calories were not the issue. ( and yet, still had this remaining belly and back fat ).

I'm gonna try dropping all dairy ( despite its muscle building properties ), find protein by other means and see how it goes. Waking up today I already feel a bit less bloated/soft.
 
Rodja

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Do you appear to be bloated? If so, I'f say you have a minor milk allergy (it could be from either the lactose or the casein).
 

protoculture

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I think I do appear to be bloated / soft ( a combination of minor bloat along with fat on lower abs, obliques and lower back ) ... I noticed that in the mornings it was less so ( as I have done this morning ) but figured it was just a result of the fasted overnight state. I'm not overweight 5'9" 195, around 12% BF I think. At one point I was running, weights etc... trying to throw everything at it and nothing was seeming to work.

Do you know if dairy is the cause of bloating/soft look in some people... whats actually going on inside the body causing this?

Anyway give this a shot, though I love dairy ( LOVE IT ) its going to be hard, so the pay offs have to be worth it.

IF I can know for sure that I can easily lose this extra fat, I can be happy to maintain my current look ( while still eating dairy ) while I bulk up. Its not that I look bad..... but I could look a few degrees better and I know this.

I've utterly failed at cutting this season... I want to know why I can't really get ripped and what stopped me.
 
Iron Warrior

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I've utterly failed at cutting this season... I want to know why I can't really get ripped and what stopped me.
I've found, from personal experience, that cutting works best when done in short cycles. For example, I'll go on a cutting phase for 8-12 weeks at the most and eat slightly above maintenance for 3-4 weeks and repeat. Carb cycling can also be beneficial if you're stuck. If you're willing to be more extreme than AAS, T3, ECA or Clen will be helpful but that's not something every person wants to play with.
 

protoculture

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OK, so I've been off dairy for a few days and I think its working.

Could be placebo.... but that soft look I had seems to be going away. I will try and keep this thread updated on my progress. Prob should take before after pics as well.
 
nattydisaster

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Milk makes me fatter than anything

I use the Smart Balance brand milk, fat free, but tastes like 2% and it seems to make me feel least fat
 
ZiR RED

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Valeo milk (if you can find it) is a great choice for lactose allergies. Its lactose free, higher in protein and lower in CHO than skim milk.

I'd also suggest a lactase enzyme and a probiotic containing lacto strains if you decide to consume milk after discontinuing it for a while.

Goat cheese is also lactose free, and greek yogurt is low lactose. Cabot cheddar is lactose free as well.

(I have a lactose intolerance)

Br
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Kefir?
 
Stri8ted25

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Guy "How Much milk do you drink?" Arnold "none." Guy "really None!?!?" Arnold "Milk is for babies" .....Source : Pumping Iron

Its the sugar in the milk that ****s ur fat loss.
 
mileo198

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Cut the milk... Cut the dairy if u want a lean cut physique u don't need it... If u do have milk unsweetened almond milk but milk has alot of fat and sugar bro common sense should tell u too avoid it
 
CJ_Xfit89

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What about cottage cheese?
Cut out dairy for a week or 2. See how you perform...up the fats a little.
40% protein
30 carbs
30 fats

Adjust to higher fats after a month at this and start to weed out grains. Use sweet potato/yams as carbs around workouts. Then start to add in coconut meats as a snack for energy from saturated fats.
 
bla55

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Same thing I posted on a similar topic...

Unsweetened almond milk = the way to go.

Good fats, good taste, good calories, can't go wrong.
 
rab71

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Same thing I posted on a similar topic...

Unsweetened almond milk = the way to go.

Good fats, good taste, good calories, can't go wrong.
This is what is working for me. 5 weeks ago I started a cut dropped milk entirely (besides fat free cottage cheese). Love almond milk you can get unsweetened vanilla flavor too. Anyway, I have gone from 175 to 160 and from 17.4%BF to 13.1% not bad. I cycle carbs as well. Refeed every 3 days.


(I just noticed the last time I posted on here I was 189lbs!) Need to update my profile.
 

Turnitup122

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Dropping dairy alltogether will hinder fat burning. Lyle mcdonald wrote an article about it on his website, something about calcium helping with fat loss or something
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Calcium is in veggies...keto/low carb paleo + refers once a week... Smash it.
I'm a runner and do 50% fats 30 pro 20 % carbs. I train at 75% + all the time.
Just takes a tad to get used to and boom...it's amazing
 
Stri8ted25

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Calcium is in veggies...
Fo Sho++. Not to mention u can get a quality calcium supplement (w D3) for about $10.00 that lasts months. lol
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Fo Sho++. Not to mention u can get a quality calcium supplement (w D3) for about $10.00 that lasts months. lol
Cal-Mag Citrate with D3 by Millennium Sports Tech.
or honestly, eat lots of lean protein and that should retain the calcium in the liver to help utilise all the veggies' calcium.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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This is what is working for me. 5 weeks ago I started a cut dropped milk entirely (besides fat free cottage cheese). Love almond milk you can get unsweetened vanilla flavor too. Anyway, I have gone from 175 to 160 and from 17.4%BF to 13.1% not bad. I cycle carbs as well. Refeed every 3 days.


(I just noticed the last time I posted on here I was 189lbs!) Need to update my profile.
Almond milk is ok but honestly, we should try to minimise the omega 6:3 ratio
almonds are midly high in Polyunsaturated fats.
Just drink Coconut milk..YES it has SATURATED FATS but they are Medium Chain. Produce energy and fat burning.
Couple that with less than 50grams a day for carbs and 35% protein, rest from fats...BOOM!!! smash any plateau
 
Stri8ted25

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Just drink Coconut milk..YES it has SATURATED FATS but they are Medium Chain.
++. Very quality MCT. The organic NON-hydrogenated coconut oil is great to do eggs w too. Mine melts at 78 degree F.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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++. Very quality MCT. The organic NON-hydrogenated coconut oil is great to do eggs w too. Mine melts at 78 degree F.
Paleo advocate?
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Vengeance187

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There was a time when I fasted and generally ate very little for months. So I know for sure my calories were not the issue. ( and yet, still had this remaining belly and back fat )...I'm not overweight 5'9" 195, around 12% BF I think.
If calories weren't the issue then were you losing muscle as fast as you were losing fat? Or were you not losing weight at all?(then calories and the whole approach was the issue)
What do you mean 12% BF "I think"? Are you just guessing?
This is what is working for me. 5 weeks ago I started a cut dropped milk entirely (besides fat free cottage cheese). Love almond milk you can get unsweetened vanilla flavor too. Anyway, I have gone from 175 to 160 and from 17.4%BF to 13.1% not bad. I cycle carbs as well. Refeed every 3 days.
That's not that good either. Out of 15 lbs lost 5.51 lbs was lean/muscle...
Dropping dairy alltogether will hinder fat burning. Lyle mcdonald wrote an article about it on his website, something about calcium helping with fat loss or something
It's not the calcium.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/content/dairy-products-preserve-365/
I drink 10oz of milk(whole) everyday before bed. I'm 11% BF and dropping.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Simple now:
Weight loss equation: intake < exertion
Fat loss: nutrient timing and manipulation (preferred)
 

soontobbeast

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If calories weren't the issue then were you losing muscle as fast as you were losing fat? Or were you not losing weight at all?(then calories and the whole approach was the issue)
What do you mean 12% BF "I think"? Are you just guessing?That's not that good either. Out of 15 lbs lost 5.51 lbs was lean/muscle...It's not the calcium.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/content/dairy-products-preserve-365/
I drink 10oz of milk(whole) everyday before bed. I'm 11% BF and dropping.
actually it is the calcium

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20000417/calcium-low-fat-diet

i dont know why you said it wasn't the calcium....then posted a link that said that higher dairy [higher calcium] diets showed better fatloss...
 
ZiR RED

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Almond milk is ok but honestly, we should try to minimise the omega 6:3 ratio
almonds are midly high in Polyunsaturated fats.
Just drink Coconut milk..YES it has SATURATED FATS but they are Medium Chain. Produce energy and fat burning.
Couple that with less than 50grams a day for carbs and 35% protein, rest from fats...BOOM!!! smash any plateau
Agree on the coconut.

Almond's are very very very low in omega-6 fatty acid.

Br
 
ZiR RED

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actually it is the calcium

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20000417/calcium-low-fat-diet

i dont know why you said it wasn't the calcium....then posted a link that said that higher dairy [higher calcium] diets showed better fatloss...
Calcium is involved in a number of intracellular processes...actually, Ca signalling is involved in nearly every peripheral intracellular process. Thus, being Ca deficient would hinder lipolysis and beta oxidation.

I'm a big proponent of greek yogurt. Its high in protein, contains a number of beneficial bacteria (and as you'll see when ever the article gets posted, these can be very important to body composition), is nearly lactose free, and high in calcium. And its very versatile in cooking.
Br
 

soontobbeast

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i also read that very high calcium intake increases T levels significantly....same thing with magnesium.
 
bla55

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Almond milk is ok but honestly, we should try to minimise the omega 6:3 ratio
almonds are midly high in Polyunsaturated fats.
Just drink Coconut milk..YES it has SATURATED FATS but they are Medium Chain. Produce energy and fat burning.
Couple that with less than 50grams a day for carbs and 35% protein, rest from fats...BOOM!!! smash any plateau
Just a quick comment on this though; Coconut Milk is on the MCT train, which is bad for any keto diets. MCT will kick you out of keto like it's its job, so I would highly advise against coconut milk if you're in any sort of high fat low carb diet.
 

soontobbeast

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Just a quick comment on this though; Coconut Milk is on the MCT train, which is bad for any keto diets. MCT will kick you out of keto like it's its job, so I would highly advise against coconut milk if you're in any sort of high fat low carb diet.
its funny you say that, ive read on a couple low carb forums that people use MCTs to get INTO ketosis faster.

lol. i really don't know/care either way since i dont use it anyway but its still ironic. you're probably right
 
ZiR RED

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i also read that very high calcium intake increases T levels significantly....same thing with magnesium.
Is that taking someone who is Ca/Mg deficient and then supplementing them increases T significantly, or is this done in someone who consumes nutriotionally adequate levels of Ca/Mg.

Br

btw: I feel like much of our country (lay population) gets plenty of Ca and is deficient in Mg.
 

soontobbeast

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Is that taking someone who is Ca/Mg deficient and then supplementing them increases T significantly, or is this done in someone who consumes nutriotionally adequate levels of Ca/Mg.

Br

btw: I feel like much of our country (lay population) gets plenty of Ca and is deficient in Mg.
ill just let you read the studies. i haven't read them in a while, so i'm a bit unsure of their conclusiveness.

http://www.ergo-log.com/calciumt.html

http://www.ergo-log.com/magnesiumtestosterone.html

i just googled these. i think these are the ones i was thinking about
 
Rodja

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Is that taking someone who is Ca/Mg deficient and then supplementing them increases T significantly, or is this done in someone who consumes nutriotionally adequate levels of Ca/Mg.

Br

btw: I feel like much of our country (lay population) gets plenty of Ca and is deficient in Mg.
It's mainly this. The benefits that are seen come from populations that are deficient. I remember about 6-7 years when calcium became huge for fat loss based off of these studies, but they didn't take the population into account.
 
bla55

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its funny you say that, ive read on a couple low carb forums that people use MCTs to get INTO ketosis faster.

lol. i really don't know/care either way since i dont use it anyway but its still ironic. you're probably right
LOL that is quite funny indeed.

It all began when I for some reason wasn't getting my keto stix to show me keto... It used to be to the fact that I would at least show "some" ketones (seeing that I was under maintenance, not a whole lot of ketones coming out pee wise) but all of a sudden I was peeing straight up blanks, no reaction. So I went back to see what the heck had changed, I mean, I had increased my fat intake quite a bit (had started using a lot of coconut oil).

At the time I was also reading the Metabolic Diet book, and in one of the chapters he highlights that Coconut Oil will knock you out. I don't have the book available right now or else would post that again, and can't really find where it was that I posted here on AM about that. Researching some more it seems as there are a few mixed reviews here and there, so IDK, perhaps on a cyclical carb diet they aren't ok but on a full keto they are? Not 100% sure but I know it seemed to kick me out and that's what was also said on the Metabolic Diet book.

Edit:

Found the book in my sent mails, here it is:

Medium chain triglycerides (MCTs) also get a big thumb down for use with the Metabolic Diet. Very few foods actually contain MCTs, but you'll find some popular MCT supplements out there, mostly derived from coconut oil. Many people in a higher-fat regimen are bullish on these products. They say, "It's fat, why can't we use it?" The fact is that MCTs bypass the whole energy pathway we're trying to establish with the Metabolic Diet and can be very counterproductive.

Not that MCTs can't be helpful. They can be of great use on a diet high in complex carbs because of their protein sparing effects. But on the Metabolic Diet, the body ends up using the MCTs for energy instead of the long chain fatty acids that make up most body fat. As such, we end up bypassing the very metabolic goals the Metabolic Diet is set up to achieve: to burn its own fat and use those triglycerides as a primary energy source.
 
ZiR RED

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Would be nice if they measured plasma Ca and Mg prior to the study to determine if subjects were deficient or not. Or at least done some dietary journals 2-4 weeks prior to treatment to see if subjects were consuming adequate Ca or Mg via diet.

Rodja...just like the chromium supplement hype back in the late 90's
 
Rodja

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Would be nice if they measured plasma Ca and Mg prior to the study to determine if subjects were deficient or not. Or at least done some dietary journals 2-4 weeks prior to treatment to see if subjects were consuming adequate Ca or Mg via diet.

Rodja...just like the chromium supplement hype back in the late 90's
Exactly. Taking science out of context is what the supplement industry does best.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Agree on the coconut.

Almond's are very very very low in omega-6 fatty acid.

Br
always read up on almonds being the "ok" nut, so i tend to stick to UNSHELLED, RAW macadamia and walnuts.

we ultimately want to increase omega 3's.
no nuts would be ideal but i get to hungry
 
ZiR RED

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always read up on almonds being the "ok" nut, so i tend to stick to UNSHELLED, RAW macadamia and walnuts.

we ultimately want to increase omega 3's.
no nuts would be ideal but i get to hungry
Walnuts are really high in omega-3. Almonds have virtually none.

Check you refs again, or if you are relying on people...ditch them.

Br
 
CJ_Xfit89

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If calories weren't the issue then were you losing muscle as fast as you were losing fat? Or were you not losing weight at all?(then calories and the whole approach was the issue)
What do you mean 12% BF "I think"? Are you just guessing?That's not that good either. Out of 15 lbs lost 5.51 lbs was lean/muscle...It's not the calcium.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/content/dairy-products-preserve-365/
I drink 10oz of milk(whole) everyday before bed. I'm 11% BF and dropping.
your dropping BF due to the Epithelial Growth Factor. You may be putting on WEIGHT but decreasing bodyfat. We are strictly talking about body WEIGHT not BF here bro.
DAIRY, will put on weight but will/can decrease bodyfat when consumed at the right time. Post max effort for strength and size WOD is best time to consume RAW MILK. Will keep you anabolic and will help with growth factors. Has all 3 Macro's.
If it was to simply lose weight, drop the dairy...
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Walnuts are really high in omega-3. Almonds have virtually none.

Check you refs again, or if you are relying on people...ditch them.

Br
Consider them ditched... are they a short chain o3 or long chain?
we want alpha linoleic acid not linolenic acid
 
Vengeance187

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actually it is the calcium

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20000417/calcium-low-fat-diet

i dont know why you said it wasn't the calcium....then posted a link that said that higher dairy [higher calcium] diets showed better fatloss...
Dairy also has sodium. So it must have been the sodium right? Of course not. To say it was the calcium from the link that I posted just because calcium is in dairy would be a haphazard assessment. I guess I should say it's not JUST the calcium. The link you posted proves that point, and this is the study they're talking about.
"only the dairy-based diets elicited a marked (>10-fold, P < 0.001) increase in skeletal muscle peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha expression."
The cause is properties specific to dairy, otherwise there wouldn't be a huge 27% difference between calcium supplementation and dairy. The absorption rate of calcium carbonate is equal to that of dairy when taken with a meal, so that's not a factor. Calcium supplementation and vegetables won't have the same effect as dairy. A 27% difference is more than statistically significant.
We are strictly talking about body WEIGHT not BF here bro. If it was to simply lose weight, drop the dairy...
No. The OP was strictly talking about BF.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Name of the thread is LOSING WEIGHT...not losing fat...
but if it was fat, eat some dairy
 

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