Awesome 'Whos Fault' Debate

YellowJacket

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Who do you agree with?

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Biology vs. Willpower: Is Fat Due to Our Food or Our Genes?

By Jeanie Lerche Davis

Feb. 5, 2003 -- Too many fat people are roaming this nation, but who -- or what -- is to blame? Is it the genes we inherited or that one extra cookie a day?


Two researchers square off in this week's Science, addressing why more than 60% of Americans are overweight.


Fat People Can't Help It


In one corner: Jeffrey M. Friedman, with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute of Rockefeller University. He says that obesity is not a personal failing -- that we're fighting a battle against biology when we try to stay slim.


The complex mechanism that regulates our weight -- triggering a calorie burn rather than fat storage -- is largely controlled by our genes, says Friedman.


A key element is the hormone leptin, which is produced by stored fat, he writes.


It's a vicious cycle. When we have less body fat, we have decreased leptin levels, which make us want to eat more -- yet reduces the amount of calories burnt. It's this "potent" cycle that that makes successful dieting so difficult, writes Friedman. "A primal hunger trumps the conscious desire to be thin."


Yet this natural weight-regulation system works quite well in all but a small percentage of people, he says. In fact, the huge increase in massively obese people "strongly" suggests the possibility that there are people with a predisposition to obesity -- while others are relatively resistant.


The so-called "thrifty gene" -- inherited from hunter-gatherer ancestors -- predisposes many people to obesity because they tend to store fat for survival in times of famine, says Friedman.


However, those who descended from the Fertile Crescent peoples of the Tigris-Euphrates rivers -- or Western societies in more recent times -- have less risk of starvation, and therefore don't have a tendency to store fat. However, when we do become obese, we likely are "weeded out" by natural selection -- our bad health causes early death.


"Might it be that the obese carry the "hunger-gatherer" genes and the lean carry the "Fertile Crescent" or "Western" genes?" asks Friedman.
 

YellowJacket

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Or this one

Oh Yes They Can


Get a grip -- willpower has much to do with it, says James O. Hill, PhD, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver.


Hill analyzed national data on obesity in American adults, which shows that 65% of adults are overweight, compared with 56% in 1994.


"We found that people are gaining one to two pounds a year," Hill says "We're only eating a tiny amount more every day than we should -- no more than 100 calories more. But we're storing about 50 extra calories a day, on average."


The solution is simple -- "eat less," says Hill. More specifically, cut 100 calories every day. "It means leaving a few bites of hamburger, putting the cookie down," he says. "Not much more than that."


Then, find time for 15 minutes of walking every day. That equals 2,000 steps, says Hill. One foot in front of the other -- brisk, slow, whatever pace feels right to you.


"These are tiny changes," Hill tells states"We've tried to get people to make total makeovers of life, but they don't stick with it. But these are small changes that are sustainable."


But -- his formula won't make you lean, he admits. Here's the upside: "If you're overweight, you won't get any more overweight."


In fact, his strategy is being tried in Denver with success. "So far, it's working wonderfully. Anybody can do it."


"Obviously, genetics plays a huge role in body weight," Hill admits. "That's why some people won't ever be thin. And this obesity epidemic -- we understand so little about it. Of course we don't disagree. There's definitely a genetic component to weight gain. If we both eat 100 calories, I may store 80 calories, you may store 60. But if each of us ate a little less, neither one of us would gain weight."
 

scotty2

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YJ, this is great stuff. This topic really burns my ass. Fat, slovenly, lazy shitbags can sit and cry till the cows come home about their fuckin thyroids, I'm not buyin it. Do you mean to tell me there are no people in 3rd world countries with underactive thyroids? If there are, why is obesity not a problem there. It all comes down to will, or lack thereof, in a fatties' cases. This country is the capital of immediate gratification. Keep eating a pint of Haagen Dazs and bitch about your thyroid fatty.
 

labrad

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Totally agree. I tend to carry a little extra and I know who is to blame. It isn't my mom and dad. It's my own damn fault.
 

msclbldrguy

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There are no doubt folks who are genetically predisposed to being overweight but that does not mean they have to accept being that way.

It boils down to choice. I know because I was a fatty growin up and bf % is something I constantly struggle with. I think most of us have a bodypart(s) that we are not genetically gifted with. There's a thread titled worst body part here that many of us told what gives us the most trouble. But I dont think any of us would allow the lack of genetics to stop us from trying to improve that bodypart. Genetics is only part of the story.

Lack of genetics may prevent you from being a cover model but it wont prevent you from looking your best, being your best and living a healthy lifestyle.

If I go to Micky D's and eat a coupla big macs supersized...i'm not gonna be very healthy or have a low bf percentage.
 

Biggs

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YJ, this is great stuff. This topic really burns my ass. Fat, slovenly, lazy shitbags can sit and cry till the cows come home about their fuckin thyroids, I'm not buyin it. Do you mean to tell me there are no people in 3rd world countries with underactive thyroids? If there are, why is obesity not a problem there. It all comes down to will, or lack thereof, in a fatties' cases. This country is the capital of immediate gratification. Keep eating a pint of Haagen Dazs and bitch about your thyroid fatty.
quote, quote, a million times QUOTE. god dammit. fat people: appreciate the society you live in, but even if you don't take nutrition and health to the "extremes" that good bodybuilders or athletes do, you can still have a pretty liberal diet and maintain perfectly healthy bodyfat. ****. biology my big brown asshole... no one is predisposed to be a 300 lb sack of jigglypaste. there are people who certainly deserve to be properly educated about things, and it's not always the obese person's fault specifically by any means but if a skinny ass bitch can grow 30 lbs of muscle and keep it, a fatty can lose 60 lbs of fat and keep it off.
 

RVEXLER

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According to a discovery channel documentary the only difference between people today and people in the 60's (when obesity was much less common) was that the average person then ate slightly less calories than today, but expended over 500 more calories than today in daily activities.

Think about it, today carpenter's don't hammer much, they use nail guns. Trenches are not dug, they use mechanical trenchers. The introduction of computers and the impact on the workplace. The massive increase in industrial robotics. The improvements in transportation that require less walking and more driving. And the number of kids spending hours each day in front of the t.v./video game console and far less time outside running and playing.

Furthermore, when you take the grossly obese people of today and surgically shrink the size of their stomaches, they lose a ton of weight. Consquently, it wasn't their metabolism or efficient fat storage mechanism that was making them fat, but the amount of calories that they were eating each day (a lot) versus the amount they were burning off (very little).
 

scotty2

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Amen, preach on, brother. And lol @my brown asshole.
 

msclbldrguy

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no one is predisposed to be a 300 lb sack of jigglypaste.
biggin...u crack me up...remember what Arnold said? if it wiggles its fat..

i wish somebody would tell me why folks keep thinkin of excuses and dont wanna look in the mirror for the person responsible for their own well-being??!!
 

YellowJacket

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Yes, preach on brother....good info.

When I was a kid (which was all too long ago) we played tackel football after school, raced home from school on foot, only went home for a drink of water and then immediatley back out to run around. Now fat ass kids have PS2s, computers, TV they constantly sit in front of. And dont be fooled, this is the problem of the parents.....and let me run something else by you....


Lazy ass parents who instead of making their children lunches and/or breakfast send them out the door with $3.00 or whatever a day to buy it at school..... umm.....how many say.. 8-15 year olds do you know who understand the Gkycemic Index and the difference between trans fatty acids and 'good fats'? Hell around here Id be happy if kids could spell glycemic. Its like murder in my humble opinion. Parents are 'too busy' to make a decent lunch for their kids so they ship them off on their way with $5 to eat a couple bags of chips from the snack machine (face it, thats what tastes good and its quick.. and a can of coke and a candy bar. Thats pathetic. Teach your kids and if you dont know, take the time to learn. Learning **** like this is free and takes maybe an hour a day for a week.... you're killing your kids people, congrats.
 

scotty2

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biggin...u crack me up...remember what Arnold said? if it wiggles its fat..

i wish somebody would tell me why folks keep thinkin of excuses and dont wanna look in the mirror for the person responsible for their own well-being??!!
Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!
 

Anxed

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couldnt agree more

I cant really add much... its pretty clear to me that, while biology can help determine your body's tendencies.... genetics doesnt force that donut down yer throat...

 
 

Biggs

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Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!
****, nobody wants to run 5 miles down the street to the McD's before they eat two thousand cals of starch and fat and then run 5 miles back home though do they? good points rvexler, good points... man every time I think about this **** I get pissed off and amused at the same time... the prevalent attitudes that people have are of course to blame as well... I worked in a warehouse for awhile and what to people do? leave the heavy lifting and extensive walking to me, and then talk about how they need to join a gym! lol jesus put down the krispy kreme, dont eat a corn dog and two orders of fries on your lunch break, you work in a warehouse for chrissake your job is moving **** all day!... just a brief example of what is obviously only a small part of the problem... I mean the average joe doesn't have to be a hardass about everything, but you do *have* to exercise MODERATION. this is a great thread by the way :) gotta be careful not to vent too much lol
 

msclbldrguy

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Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!
true dat..instant gratification....no one wants to work for anything anymore seems like. one thing i love most about bb is the journey and learnin how my body responds to different training methods, dieting, etc.....o kno i get ragged on at work all the time 'cause i dont eat "real" food!!!??? and they say this while eatin doughnuts andtwinkies...go figure!
 

msclbldrguy

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Yes, preach on brother....good info.

When I was a kid (which was all too long ago) we played tackel football after school, raced home from school on foot, only went home for a drink of water and then immediatley back out to run around. Now fat ass kids have PS2s, computers, TV they constantly sit in front of. And dont be fooled, this is the problem of the parents.....and let me run something else by you....


Lazy ass parents who instead of making their children lunches and/or breakfast send them out the door with $3.00 or whatever a day to buy it at school..... umm.....how many say.. 8-15 year olds do you know who understand the Gkycemic Index and the difference between trans fatty acids and 'good fats'? Hell around here Id be happy if kids could spell glycemic. Its like murder in my humble opinion. Parents are 'too busy' to make a decent lunch for their kids so they ship them off on their way with $5 to eat a couple bags of chips from the snack machine (face it, thats what tastes good and its quick.. and a can of coke and a candy bar. Thats pathetic. Teach your kids and if you dont know, take the time to learn. Learning **** like this is free and takes maybe an hour a day for a week.... you're killing your kids people, congrats.
this brings back memories....'cause i remember not bein able to wait for recess, phys ed, and then go home and go outside and play ball...ride bikes...whatever...anything to get outside..

nuthin like a lunch from home either...i doubt my mom knew about glycemic indices but i always had friut, whole wheat breads, and stuff that was good for me...and i liked it...and most other kids at my school had the same kind of lunches...my problems came when i started high school and started eatin like i wanted to...and paid dearly for it by being fat...lesson learned.
 

RVEXLER

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THE SAD PART ABOUT IT....

The worst part about it is that once you reach a certain level of obesity, it becomes almost impossible to reverse for most people without medical intervention. Why?

Imagine a 200 lb man in good shape, 7% bf. That's only 14 lbs of fat and a lot of calorie burning muscle. Now take the same man and add 200 lbs of fat. The difference in caloric requirement to maintain that extra fat works out to the equivalent of 1 Mcdonalds hamburger, fries and shake each day.

Once you hit those big poundages, it requires virtually no effort to maintain it. Contrast that with the amount of will-power and effort it takes to maintain 7% bf and you can see that once you get fat, you pretty much stay fat.

We make a big effort in school to "just say no to drugs" yet far more people will die due to obesity related illnesses than will ever die due to drugs. Yet, just about every chemical tool to get in shape and stay in shape is under constant attack from all angles of our society.
 

jweave23

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Wow, what an excellent thread! I must say that I agree with what Biggin, Scotty, and RVEXLER have said here. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and these days that is growing less and less. I took about 2-3 years off from BB'ing and got very fat, because of my own lazy habits and eating, no other reason, period.
 

scotty2

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Wow, what an excellent thread! I must say that I agree with what Biggin, Scotty, and RVEXLER have said here. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and these days that is growing less and less. I took about 2-3 years off from BB'ing and got very fat, because of my own lazy habits and eating, no other reason, period.
Don't be so hard on yourself, pork chop, you got an underactive thyroid. You should be able to eat McDonald's, pizza, KFC, every day and not get fat. Boo-hoo, well maybe you'll consider a gastric bypass. YOu know all the fat fuckin pussies are doing it these days. They should get a new procedure called a jaw wire/testicular implant. They can get a pair of balls and keep their mouths shut at the same time!
 

weissmuller

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Great thread everyone.

I have a very simple idea of my own about the problem.  The body is nothing more than a machine that adapts to its enviroment:  If the enviroment is **** then the body is ****.  I believe theres a lot more to it than just eating less.  Most people place very little demand on the body.  Just for the body to adapt and change for an enviroment requires an incredible amount of chemical changes almost all of which are fueled by energy from our diets.  Hence the metabolic increase from intense training.  If each lazy ass would just put aside 20 min 3 times a week to anhilate(sp) their body in the gym, not only would they increase this pathway of energy distribution, but they'd get an uplifting experience and have some feeling of accomplishment in their poor lives.

Another thing that gets to me is how messed up our diet is compared to the diet our bodies evolved in.  There is nothing in nature that resemble a few donuts and a bottle of sugar water and its no wounder they cause some bad effects.  I don't think our bodies get the correct sign of fullness nor can the body process the incredible sugar rush without employing some fat cells to drain this rise.  Again from a biochem perspective its more than just a simple energy balance that can be fixed by smaller portions or such.
 

RVEXLER

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One last thought

Interestingly enough, there is some good evidence that people who can easily store fat have been naturally selected. Keep in mind that it wasn't until about 10,000 years ago that agriculture was first practiced. Before that, (and even after that) there was no guarantee of a constant food supply. So, the ones who could fatten up most efficiently from the kill were the ones who stored the most fat, burned the least calories and could survive the lean times. The naturally thin ones would die out during the first famine (or the first bad winter) and be less likely to pass on their genes.

Fast forward to the present where food is in an abundant supply and its no wonder there are so many fat people. I wonder though, will these new environmental conditions which no longer favor the fat-accumulators lead to a shift in the population to more of the lean-mean, burn-the-fat-like-there-is-no-tomorrow types?

Perhaps by avoiding pro-creation with fat chicks we can further speed along the process? Just a thought. ;)
 

Sheesh

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I used to be a fat person. It's all in the mind, underactive thyroid my ass. ANYONE can lose weight.
 

CerealKiller

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AHHH the classic Nature vs. Nurture question. IMO nothing plays a big role in body composition than genetics and that includes steroid usage. We all know people who can eat junk food all day and somehow avoid getting fat and by the same token others just look at food and gain weight. Oprah Winfrey will never look like Kate Moss no matter how strong her will power is, however with a good strategic diet and exercise plan she can look like the best Oprah Winfrey she can be.
 

ex_banana-eater

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Yes, preach on brother....good info.

When I was a kid (which was all too long ago) we played tackel football after school, raced home from school on foot, only went home for a drink of water and then immediatley back out to run around. Now fat ass kids have PS2s, computers, TV they constantly sit in front of. And dont be fooled, this is the problem of the parents.....and let me run something else by you....


Lazy ass parents who instead of making their children lunches and/or breakfast send them out the door with $3.00 or whatever a day to buy it at school..... umm.....how many say.. 8-15 year olds do you know who understand the Gkycemic Index and the difference between trans fatty acids and 'good fats'? Hell around here Id be happy if kids could spell glycemic. Its like murder in my humble opinion. Parents are 'too busy' to make a decent lunch for their kids so they ship them off on their way with $5 to eat a couple bags of chips from the snack machine (face it, thats what tastes good and its quick.. and a can of coke and a candy bar. Thats pathetic. Teach your kids and if you dont know, take the time to learn. Learning **** like this is free and takes maybe an hour a day for a week.... you're killing your kids people, congrats.
You have this down to the "T"

One of my friends has to get up early to take the bus so he doesn't have time to eat breakfast. Once at school he heads straight to the vending machine and buys a bag of chips, a chocolate bar, and a coke. He isn't really overweight since he plays alot of hockey. (Come to think of it, I only know two people my age drastically overweight). This guy could stand to lose 15 lbs though.

These people still have unhealthy practices. The girls don't eat to stay skinny. The guys eat **** logs (chocolate bars) and chips all day. (But we play sports).
 

ironviking

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I had a guy here at work ask me how can he lose wieght, he has very limited time due to work and school and also doesnt like to work out, he said he didnt really want to restrict his diet either. So I told him whenever you go to work or the store, park all the way in the back of the parking lot, during lunch walk around the building for about twenty minutes and finally leave a couple of bites of food left on your plate each meal.
Its been about two weeks and he has lost about 3 pounds, not much but after a few months of that it will be significant.
I believe why most people fail at dieting is they starve themselves, dont lose the 100 pounds in two weeks like they planned and give up. If most people would just do like the second post states it would not be that hard. Its easier to make excuses and sue McDonalds than for people to take responsibilty for what they have done to themselves. Unfortunately, because we have scientists that want to help with the excuse making, we will always have a fat epidemic in this country.
 

WYD02

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We all know that certain people pick up fat easier than others.  Does this mean they are destined to be fat?  No.  It just means they will have to work harder than the guy who can eat whatever he wants and not gain a pound.  People say, even my own mother when I see her, that you'll never look like X or Y.  "Your not meant to be that lean... sometimes people just can't see their abs".  She isn't trying to screw my confidence, she just believes that people are born with a certain body type and stucture.  She is right in a sense.  I'll never look like YJ for example, he is taller and carries his muscle differently.  But I sure as hell can put on the same amount of lean muscle mass and get to the same body fat percentage... its just all in how hard your willing to work.  Your body is limited to your genetics in this sense (Height, muscle structure and build, "genetic potential", etc) but ANYONE can build a great physique and there is no excuse for extreme obesity. 

So the answer is, a little bit of both...  Yeah, you may be an endomorph but that doesn't give you the excuse to go out and eat **** all day.
 

Andy2k

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Fat - it's in my genes.
I got this gene that makes me like chocolate and cakes and beer and mmmmmmmmmmm.........beer:D
 

shpongled

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AHHH the classic Nature vs. Nurture question. IMO nothing plays a big role in body composition than genetics and that includes steroid usage. We all know people who can eat junk food all day and somehow avoid getting fat and by the same token others just look at food and gain weight. Oprah Winfrey will never look like Kate Moss no matter how strong her will power is, however with a good strategic diet and exercise plan she can look like the best Oprah Winfrey she can be.
That's not true. Ectomorphs, although it seems to many they eat a lot more junk, actually have less appetite. I think it's that they don't try to "hide" the fact that they gorge themselves so much because they're not afraid of looking like gluttons.

I think one of the main factors is physical activity. Compare an endo construction worker to an endo computer programmer. See the difference? If you put genetically identical people into those two jobs they'll look a lot different.

Genetics does play a big role, but not enough of one to produce an excuse IMO. Even "big-boned" people always look really good when they get rid of the extra body fat.

David
 

bee

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Ectomorphs, although it seems to many they eat a lot more junk, actually have less appetite.


Sphongled, its called having a HIGHER metabolism! Where the hell are you basing your facts on they have less of an appetite??? Sure some due but they are not genetic ectomorphs. A true ectomorph has a fast metabolism, just like a true endormorph has a slow one, regardless of "appetite".
 

YellowJacket

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Ectomorphs, although it seems to many they eat a lot more junk, actually have less appetite.


Sphongled, its called having a HIGHER metabolism! Where the hell are you basing your facts on they have less of an appetite??? Sure some due but they are not genetic ectomorphs. A true ectomorph has a fast metabolism, just like a true endormorph has a slow one, regardless of "appetite".

Boy that IP looks familiar and I can recognize ignorance....you're like a genital wart.....
 

YellowJacket

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Oh not to mention an ectomorph is a classification based on bone structure, body type, physical features, not basal activity. So yes, sphongled is correct.....
 

CerealKiller

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That's not true. Ectomorphs, although it seems to many they eat a lot more junk, actually have less appetite. I think it's that they don't try to "hide" the fact that they gorge themselves so much because they're not afraid of looking like gluttons.

I think one of the main factors is physical activity. Compare an endo construction worker to an endo computer programmer. See the difference? If you put genetically identical people into those two jobs they'll look a lot different.

Genetics does play a big role, but not enough of one to produce an excuse IMO. Even "big-boned" people always look really good when they get rid of the extra body fat.

David
Not saying genetics is an excuse but some people are pre-disposed to being fat like others are pre-disposed to being thin regargless of their physical activity or will power. The first time Hershel Walker bench pressed he did 375. I've been training with weights for over 30 years and can't bench 375. Why ? Basically genetic coding. Oprah will never be as thin as Kate no matter what strategy she tries or how strong willed she is. You'll never be a fast as Maurice Greene no matter how hard you try. IMO genetics play a much bigger role in how we look and what we are physically capable of than factors like environment,diet,exercise,physical activity. IMO we can all improve but only within our own physical limits and the good thing is we don't know what those limits are so we continue to strive.
 

WYD02

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Originally posted by CerealKiller


Not saying genetics is an excuse but some people are pre-disposed to being fat like others are pre-disposed to being thin regargless of their physical activity or will power. The first time Hershel Walker bench pressed he did 375. I've been training with weights for over 30 years and can't bench 375. Why ? Basically genetic coding. Oprah will never be as thin as Kate no matter what strategy she tries or how strong willed she is. You'll never be a fast as Maurice Greene no matter how hard you try. IMO genetics play a much bigger role in how we look and what we are physically capable of than factors like environment,diet,exercise,physical activity. IMO we can all improve but only within our own physical limits and the good thing is we don't know what those limits are so we continue to strive.
I agree with much of this accept for: "Oprah will never be as thin as Kate no matter what strategy she tries or how strong willed she is".  While she may be an endo, this does not stop her from getting to the same bf % as anyone else.  Yes, she will look very much different at the same bf% but if she simply stopped eating she would have no choice but to reach that bf% over time.  Granted its a stupid idea, but its math.  Genetics plays a large role in the difficulty of achieving this, but is not the determining factor here...
 

Biggs

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I would agree with the 'difficulty in achieving' aspect for the most part. Some things just ain't gonna happen, as there is far too much of a genetic difference yeah... but *most* differences can be overcome, once the huge differences in training etc will be accounted for. This can depend quite heavily on the goals too, as most everyone can maintain healthy bodyweight through simply attention to diet... I think strength is much more 'set' in terms of how far you may be able to go without drastic changes or assistance of some kind.
 
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dez/null

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iv herd about the overactive thyroid problem over and over. It's BS
 

RVEXLER

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Not saying genetics is an excuse but some people are pre-disposed to being fat like others are pre-disposed to being thin regargless of their physical activity or will power. The first time Hershel Walker bench pressed he did 375. I've been training with weights for over 30 years and can't bench 375. Why ? Basically genetic coding. Oprah will never be as thin as Kate no matter what strategy she tries or how strong willed she is. You'll never be a fast as Maurice Greene no matter how hard you try. IMO genetics play a much bigger role in how we look and what we are physically capable of than factors like environment,diet,exercise,physical activity. IMO we can all improve but only within our own physical limits and the good thing is we don't know what those limits are so we continue to strive.
Nobody is pre-disposed to either being fat or thin. As individuals, we differ to the degree which our body can efficiently store calories as fat or muscle. If my body can very efficiently store calories as fat, then I must eat less calories or expend more energy than someone who stores their calories as fat less efficiently. How I deal with that fact (the CHOICES I make) determine whether or not I am fat or thin.

Fat people know they are eating too much. They consistently understate their consumption and even hide their eating. It's a choice that they make. When willpower is removed from the equation (e.g. gastric bypass) they always lose the weight.

So the issue isn't genetics, but a choice that they are making to consume more calories than their bodies can handle.
 

shpongled

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Ectomorphs, although it seems to many they eat a lot more junk, actually have less appetite.


Sphongled, its called having a HIGHER metabolism! Where the hell are you basing your facts on they have less of an appetite??? Sure some due but they are not genetic ectomorphs. A true ectomorph has a fast metabolism, just like a true endormorph has a slow one, regardless of "appetite".
Either way, faster metabolism = less appetite. I'm not saying that their skinniness is only due to eating less. I'm saying that the "some people can eat all the junk they want and not get fat" assertion isn't true.

David
 

shpongled

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Whosyourdaddy, biggin, rvexler... all excellent points. The BF% thing was what I was trying to get to with even "big-boned" people look good after dieting down. It's a lot more of an issue of bodyfat levels.

David
 

YellowJacket

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ha, you guys will enjoy this one....


Tax Soda and Snacks to Promote Health

Measure Recommended in the American Journal of Public Health
WASHINGTON - Health advocates at the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) and Yale University recommended in a paper in the June issue of the American Journal of Public Health that soft drinks and snack foods be taxed to provide funding for nutrition and health campaigns.

The new study found that 17 states — including California and New York — Chicago, and the District of Columbia already have special taxes on soft drinks or snack foods. Collectively, those sales taxes and other levies raise $1 billion per year, but the revenues are not used to promote healthier lifestyles. The food industry successfully lobbied to repeal similar taxes in seven other states and is trying to do so now in the District of Columbia.

“With obesity rates soaring and the costs of diet-related diseases in the stratosphere, it is essential that government fund major campaigns to promote healthful diets and physical activity,” said Michael F. Jacobson, executive director of CSPI and co-author of the report. “One way to obtain funding is to apply small taxes to foods that undermine health.”

The new report cites government studies that estimate that as many as 500,000 people are dying each year due to poor diets and physical inactivity, and that the cost of diet-related diseases is well over $71 billion annually.

Jacobson and co-author Kelly D. Brownell, professor of psychology at Yale University, estimate that a one-cent tax per 12-ounce soft drink could generate about $1.5 billion annually. In addition, a penny tax per pound of candy, chips and other snack foods, or fats and oils, would raise about $70 million, $54 million, and $190 million, respectively. The researchers said that those small taxes would have little or no direct effect on sales of those foods.

According to the new report, the National Cancer Institute spends only about $1 million annually to publicize its 5-A-Day campaign, which encourages fruit and vegetable consumption. In comparison, McDonald’s spends $1 billion, soft-drink companies more than $500 million, and M&M candies $67 million on promotions.

“Small taxes on soft drinks, candy, gum, and snack foods are a sensible way to fund health-promotion programs,” said Brownell. “Those programs could result in better health and lower health-care costs.”
 

shpongled

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Great, going from a population of gluttons to a population of communists. It's a double-edged sword.

I say we require fast food places to put big labels on their burgers that say "WARNING: THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS FECES." I think that would help; I know I eat a lot less beef since I found that out.

David
 
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Biggs

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I don't give a ****, tax them fatties... tell you one thing, that extra tax money raised wont change a fuckin thing. The general public is bombarded with health, diet and nutrition issues every day, so lining pockets with candy-tax dollars wont make a damn bit of difference. Fatties will still eat poorly, until THEY make the INDIVIDUAL decision to change for THEMSELVES... this is fundamental, because there is no shortage of anything in this country (as far as environmentally imposed restrictions, food shortages etc). As you cannot use external force to make an alcoholic turn to sobriety (with any sort of long term success), you also cannot force other unhealthy people into healthier ways of life if they do not want it enough.... basically at this point I suppose I'm saying it's not for lack of knowledge that their chosen lifestyle is unhealthy, so what the hell? How about funding disease research, things of that nature, that are involuntary and uncontrollable.
 
Lifeguard

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Originally posted by YellowJacket



Boy that IP looks familiar and I can recognize ignorance....you're like a genital wart.....
LoL....OH MY GOD!!!! that was great!!! LMAO!!

 

but anyway....Yes when I was younger I was a chubby kid, nuff said.  Then I got tired of being made fun of for my weight (not necessarily my weight, but more my body structure [i.e. I had a pair of boobies :p ]) so in ninth grade I just started to eat less, and then at the end of 9th grade I was 5'5'' 124 lbs., very little muscle on my frame (read: I was still a weak mofo), in 10th grade (almost 16 years old) I started lifting: my max on bench press was less then 85 pounds :eek: .  Then I started to get made fun of because I was actually working out and trying to get bigger and stronger.  This was almost enough to deter me, but it did not.  I kept lifting and reading about lifting, and eventually in 12th grade I was the "go to" guy when it came to supplementation or workouts.  Also I earned the nickname "Arnold" due to the size and shape of my chest :D

Moral of the story:  genetics does play a role in the development of the physical characteristics of a person.  BUT...if a person "wants it" enough, then that person has the ability to change their weight, strenght, personality, or anything else that they want to change.

 

LG. :cool: 
 

msclbldrguy

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Great, going from a population of gluttons to a population of communists. It's a double-edged sword.

I say we require fast food places to put big labels on their burgers that say "WARNING: THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS FECES." I think that would help; I know I eat a lot less beef since I found that out.

David
Communists?? Hardly. I dont see whats wrong with funding education for better nutrition from those who abuse their bodies. Besides, that little bit of tax isnt gonna be a deterrent. Like Biggin said, its their choice. If the extra $$ collected and spent educating folks saves just one person from being a slave to glottony, then it would be money well spent.
 

msclbldrguy

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Moral of the story:  genetics does play a role in the development of the physical characteristics of a person.  BUT...if a person "wants it" enough, then that person has the ability to change their weight, strenght, personality, or anything else that they want to change.

 

LG. :cool: 
LG...

Excellent post...and basically common sense. All too often I think folks use "genetics" as an excuse to avoid trying to better themselves. And as we all know, sports, as well as other things, are full of those with the right genetics but who didnt have the desire to fully develop to their potential. Its also full of folks who didnt have the right genetics but their determination and desire made them champions...further shows that its a matter of choice.

btw...its interesting how many of us were fatties as kids...I know I was....and used bb to get outta that. Funny thing is, many of my co-workers cant understand why I eat clean, am adamant about working out and stuff, as they keep eatin their twinkies, doughnuts, and smokin their cigaretts!! But whatcha gonna do, aye? :rolleyes: Keep up da good work bro...
 

Biggs

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many of my co-workers cant understand why I eat clean, am adamant about working out and stuff, as they keep eatin their twinkies, doughnuts, and smokin their cigaretts!! But whatcha gonna do, aye? :rolleyes: Keep up da good work bro...
What you gonna do, is wait until they are monstrously obese, kick and prod their jiggly-paste bulges, and say 'how you like it now fatty, I told yo fatass, now look at ya, you morbidly disgusting waste of space!!!'
 

RVEXLER

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I don't give a ****, tax them fatties... tell you one thing, that extra tax money raised wont change a fuckin thing. The general public is bombarded with health, diet and nutrition issues every day, so lining pockets with candy-tax dollars wont make a damn bit of difference. Fatties will still eat poorly, until THEY make the INDIVIDUAL decision to change for THEMSELVES... this is fundamental, because there is no shortage of anything in this country (as far as environmentally imposed restrictions, food shortages etc). As you cannot use external force to make an alcoholic turn to sobriety (with any sort of long term success), you also cannot force other unhealthy people into healthier ways of life if they do not want it enough.... basically at this point I suppose I'm saying it's not for lack of knowledge that their chosen lifestyle is unhealthy, so what the hell? How about funding disease research, things of that nature, that are involuntary and uncontrollable.
Excellent point that further education about nutrition will not change behavior. I mean seriously, does anybody eating a twinkie not know that it is fattening? I can see the tax funded commercials:

Opening scene: mourners gathered around a rather large coffin with the flabby folds of the deceased hanging over the side.

Mourner A: It was just so sad (sobbing). If only we had known how dangerous twinkies were .... perhaps we could have stopped him in time.

Mourner B: (sagely nodding head) Yes .... too late for poor Billy .... but not to late for the other Billys .... (turns to camera) Cut to graphic of twinkie on black background. Music rises to crescendo. Narrator voice over (sonorous tones): Friends ... do not let friends ... EAT TWINKIES...

:D
 

msclbldrguy

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What you gonna do, is wait until they are monstrously obese, kick and prod their jiggly-paste bulges, and say 'how you like it now fatty, I told yo fatass, now look at ya, you morbidly disgusting waste of space!!!'
interesting..heh...there was this woman who was in our dept (notcie i didnt say worked here) a coupla years ago who was 300 lbs if she was a lb...called in sick at the drop of a hat and never did anything...our bos did everything possible...told her she should try exercising...wouldnt u hate for ya boss to tell ya to loose weight, aye? :eek:
 

WYD02

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Originally posted by msclbldrguy


i sat next to this person on a plane once....hehe :p :eek:
 

Did they buy 2 seats?  If not, I woulda asked for half off.... The way I see it, your really only getting half a seat :)

 
 

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