Awesome 'Whos Fault' Debate

YellowJacket · 02-07-2003, 03:40 PM

Who do you agree with?

First Article

Biology vs. Willpower: Is Fat Due to Our Food or Our Genes?

By Jeanie Lerche Davis

Feb. 5, 2003 -- Too many fat people are roaming this nation, but who -- or what -- is to blame? Is it the genes we inherited or that one extra cookie a day?

Two researchers square off in this week's Science, addressing why more than 60% of Americans are overweight.

Fat People Can't Help It

In one corner: Jeffrey M. Friedman, with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute of Rockefeller University. He says that obesity is not a personal failing -- that we're fighting a battle against biology when we try to stay slim.

The complex mechanism that regulates our weight -- triggering a calorie burn rather than fat storage -- is largely controlled by our genes, says Friedman.

A key element is the hormone leptin, which is produced by stored fat, he writes.

It's a vicious cycle. When we have less body fat, we have decreased leptin levels, which make us want to eat more -- yet reduces the amount of calories burnt. It's this "potent" cycle that that makes successful dieting so difficult, writes Friedman. "A primal hunger trumps the conscious desire to be thin."

Yet this natural weight-regulation system works quite well in all but a small percentage of people, he says. In fact, the huge increase in massively obese people "strongly" suggests the possibility that there are people with a predisposition to obesity -- while others are relatively resistant.

The so-called "thrifty gene" -- inherited from hunter-gatherer ancestors -- predisposes many people to obesity because they tend to store fat for survival in times of famine, says Friedman.

However, those who descended from the Fertile Crescent peoples of the Tigris-Euphrates rivers -- or Western societies in more recent times -- have less risk of starvation, and therefore don't have a tendency to store fat. However, when we do become obese, we likely are "weeded out" by natural selection -- our bad health causes early death.

"Might it be that the obese carry the "hunger-gatherer" genes and the lean carry the "Fertile Crescent" or "Western" genes?" asks Friedman.

YellowJacket · 02-07-2003, 03:41 PM

Or this one

Oh Yes They Can

Get a grip -- willpower has much to do with it, says James O. Hill, PhD, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver.

Hill analyzed national data on obesity in American adults, which shows that 65% of adults are overweight, compared with 56% in 1994.

"We found that people are gaining one to two pounds a year," Hill says "We're only eating a tiny amount more every day than we should -- no more than 100 calories more. But we're storing about 50 extra calories a day, on average."

The solution is simple -- "eat less," says Hill. More specifically, cut 100 calories every day. "It means leaving a few bites of hamburger, putting the cookie down," he says. "Not much more than that."

Then, find time for 15 minutes of walking every day. That equals 2,000 steps, says Hill. One foot in front of the other -- brisk, slow, whatever pace feels right to you.

"These are tiny changes," Hill tells states"We've tried to get people to make total makeovers of life, but they don't stick with it. But these are small changes that are sustainable."

But -- his formula won't make you lean, he admits. Here's the upside: "If you're overweight, you won't get any more overweight."

In fact, his strategy is being tried in Denver with success. "So far, it's working wonderfully. Anybody can do it."

"Obviously, genetics plays a huge role in body weight," Hill admits. "That's why some people won't ever be thin. And this obesity epidemic -- we understand so little about it. Of course we don't disagree. There's definitely a genetic component to weight gain. If we both eat 100 calories, I may store 80 calories, you may store 60. But if each of us ate a little less, neither one of us would gain weight."

scotty2 · 02-07-2003, 03:49 PM

YJ, this is great stuff. This topic really burns my ass. Fat, slovenly, lazy shitbags can sit and cry till the cows come home about their ****in thyroids, I'm not buyin it. Do you mean to tell me there are no people in 3rd world countries with underactive thyroids? If there are, why is obesity not a problem there. It all comes down to will, or lack thereof, in a fatties' cases. This country is the capital of immediate gratification. Keep eating a pint of Haagen Dazs and ***** about your thyroid fatty.

labrad · 02-07-2003, 03:55 PM

Totally agree. I tend to carry a little extra and I know who is to blame. It isn't my mom and dad. It's my own damn fault.

msclbldrguy · 02-07-2003, 04:02 PM

There are no doubt folks who are genetically predisposed to being overweight but that does not mean they have to accept being that way.

It boils down to choice. I know because I was a fatty growin up and bf % is something I constantly struggle with. I think most of us have a bodypart(s) that we are not genetically gifted with. There's a thread titled worst body part here that many of us told what gives us the most trouble. But I dont think any of us would allow the lack of genetics to stop us from trying to improve that bodypart. Genetics is only part of the story.

Lack of genetics may prevent you from being a cover model but it wont prevent you from looking your best, being your best and living a healthy lifestyle.

If I go to Micky D's and eat a coupla big macs supersized...i'm not gonna be very healthy or have a low bf percentage.

Biggs · 02-07-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scotty2
YJ, this is great stuff. This topic really burns my ass. Fat, slovenly, lazy shitbags can sit and cry till the cows come home about their ****in thyroids, I'm not buyin it. Do you mean to tell me there are no people in 3rd world countries with underactive thyroids? If there are, why is obesity not a problem there. It all comes down to will, or lack thereof, in a fatties' cases. This country is the capital of immediate gratification. Keep eating a pint of Haagen Dazs and ***** about your thyroid fatty.

quote, quote, a million times QUOTE. god dammit. fat people: appreciate the society you live in, but even if you don't take nutrition and health to the "extremes" that good bodybuilders or athletes do, you can still have a pretty liberal diet and maintain perfectly healthy bodyfat. ****. biology my big brown *******... no one is predisposed to be a 300 lb sack of jigglypaste. there are people who certainly deserve to be properly educated about things, and it's not always the obese person's fault specifically by any means but if a skinny ass ***** can grow 30 lbs of muscle and keep it, a fatty can lose 60 lbs of fat and keep it off.

RVEXLER · 02-07-2003, 04:24 PM

According to a discovery channel documentary the only difference between people today and people in the 60's (when obesity was much less common) was that the average person then ate slightly less calories than today, but expended over 500 more calories than today in daily activities.

Think about it, today carpenter's don't hammer much, they use nail guns. Trenches are not dug, they use mechanical trenchers. The introduction of computers and the impact on the workplace. The massive increase in industrial robotics. The improvements in transportation that require less walking and more driving. And the number of kids spending hours each day in front of the t.v./video game console and far less time outside running and playing.

Furthermore, when you take the grossly obese people of today and surgically shrink the size of their stomaches, they lose a ton of weight. Consquently, it wasn't their metabolism or efficient fat storage mechanism that was making them fat, but the amount of calories that they were eating each day (a lot) versus the amount they were burning off (very little).

scotty2 · 02-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Amen, preach on, brother. And lol @my brown *******.

msclbldrguy · 02-07-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biggin

no one is predisposed to be a 300 lb sack of jigglypaste.

biggin...u crack me up...remember what Arnold said? if it wiggles its fat..

i wish somebody would tell me why folks keep thinkin of excuses and dont wanna look in the mirror for the person responsible for their own well-being??!!

YellowJacket · 02-07-2003, 04:30 PM

Yes, preach on brother....good info.

When I was a kid (which was all too long ago) we played tackel football after school, raced home from school on foot, only went home for a drink of water and then immediatley back out to run around. Now fat ass kids have PS2s, computers, TV they constantly sit in front of. And dont be fooled, this is the problem of the parents.....and let me run something else by you....

Lazy ass parents who instead of making their children lunches and/or breakfast send them out the door with $3.00 or whatever a day to buy it at school..... umm.....how many say.. 8-15 year olds do you know who understand the Gkycemic Index and the difference between trans fatty acids and 'good fats'? Hell around here Id be happy if kids could spell glycemic. Its like murder in my humble opinion. Parents are 'too busy' to make a decent lunch for their kids so they ship them off on their way with $5 to eat a couple bags of chips from the snack machine (face it, thats what tastes good and its quick.. and a can of coke and a candy bar. Thats pathetic. Teach your kids and if you dont know, take the time to learn. Learning **** like this is free and takes maybe an hour a day for a week.... you're killing your kids people, congrats.

scotty2 · 02-07-2003, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msclbldrguy

biggin...u crack me up...remember what Arnold said? if it wiggles its fat..

i wish somebody would tell me why folks keep thinkin of excuses and dont wanna look in the mirror for the person responsible for their own well-being??!!

Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!

Anxed · 02-07-2003, 04:38 PM

I cant really add much... its pretty clear to me that, while biology can help determine your body's tendencies.... genetics doesnt force that donut down yer throat...

 

Biggs · 02-07-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scotty2

Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!

shit, nobody wants to run 5 miles down the street to the McD's before they eat two thousand cals of starch and fat and then run 5 miles back home though do they? good points rvexler, good points... man every time I think about this **** I get pissed off and amused at the same time... the prevalent attitudes that people have are of course to blame as well... I worked in a warehouse for awhile and what to people do? leave the heavy lifting and extensive walking to me, and then talk about how they need to join a gym! lol jesus put down the krispy kreme, dont eat a corn dog and two orders of fries on your lunch break, you work in a warehouse for chrissake your job is moving **** all day!... just a brief example of what is obviously only a small part of the problem... I mean the average joe doesn't have to be a hardass about everything, but you do *have* to exercise MODERATION. this is a great thread by the way

gotta be careful not to vent too much lol

msclbldrguy · 02-07-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scotty2

Cause it tastes good, bro. Don't you get it? And, it's fast, just drive thru and super size #2, you got it!

true dat..instant gratification....no one wants to work for anything anymore seems like. one thing i love most about bb is the journey and learnin how my body responds to different training methods, dieting, etc.....o kno i get ragged on at work all the time 'cause i dont eat "real" food!!!??? and they say this while eatin doughnuts andtwinkies...go figure!

msclbldrguy · 02-07-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Yes, preach on brother....good info.

When I was a kid (which was all too long ago) we played tackel football after school, raced home from school on foot, only went home for a drink of water and then immediatley back out to run around. Now fat ass kids have PS2s, computers, TV they constantly sit in front of. And dont be fooled, this is the problem of the parents.....and let me run something else by you....

Lazy ass parents who instead of making their children lunches and/or breakfast send them out the door with $3.00 or whatever a day to buy it at school..... umm.....how many say.. 8-15 year olds do you know who understand the Gkycemic Index and the difference between trans fatty acids and 'good fats'? Hell around here Id be happy if kids could spell glycemic. Its like murder in my humble opinion. Parents are 'too busy' to make a decent lunch for their kids so they ship them off on their way with $5 to eat a couple bags of chips from the snack machine (face it, thats what tastes good and its quick.. and a can of coke and a candy bar. Thats pathetic. Teach your kids and if you dont know, take the time to learn. Learning **** like this is free and takes maybe an hour a day for a week.... you're killing your kids people, congrats.

this brings back memories....'cause i remember not bein able to wait for recess, phys ed, and then go home and go outside and play ball...ride bikes...whatever...anything to get outside..

nuthin like a lunch from home either...i doubt my mom knew about glycemic indices but i always had friut, whole wheat breads, and stuff that was good for me...and i liked it...and most other kids at my school had the same kind of lunches...my problems came when i started high school and started eatin like i wanted to...and paid dearly for it by being fat...lesson learned.

RVEXLER · 02-07-2003, 05:45 PM

The worst part about it is that once you reach a certain level of obesity, it becomes almost impossible to reverse for most people without medical intervention. Why?

Imagine a 200 lb man in good shape, 7% bf. That's only 14 lbs of fat and a lot of calorie burning muscle. Now take the same man and add 200 lbs of fat. The difference in caloric requirement to maintain that extra fat works out to the equivalent of 1 Mcdonalds hamburger, fries and shake each day.

Once you hit those big poundages, it requires virtually no effort to maintain it. Contrast that with the amount of will-power and effort it takes to maintain 7% bf and you can see that once you get fat, you pretty much stay fat.

We make a big effort in school to "just say no to drugs" yet far more people will die due to obesity related illnesses than will ever die due to drugs. Yet, just about every chemical tool to get in shape and stay in shape is under constant attack from all angles of our society.

**jweave23** · 02-07-2003, 06:09 PM

Wow, what an excellent thread! I must say that I agree with what Biggin, Scotty, and RVEXLER have said here. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and these days that is growing less and less. I took about 2-3 years off from BB'ing and got very fat, because of my own lazy habits and eating, no other reason, period.

scotty2 · 02-07-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jweave23
Wow, what an excellent thread! I must say that I agree with what Biggin, Scotty, and RVEXLER have said here. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and these days that is growing less and less. I took about 2-3 years off from BB'ing and got very fat, because of my own lazy habits and eating, no other reason, period.

Don't be so hard on yourself, pork chop, you got an underactive thyroid. You should be able to eat McDonald's, pizza, KFC, every day and not get fat. Boo-hoo, well maybe you'll consider a gastric bypass. YOu know all the fat ****in pussies are doing it these days. They should get a new procedure called a jaw wire/testicular implant. They can get a pair of balls and keep their mouths shut at the same time!