The Official Hypothyroidism Thread
- 06-24-2011, 11:31 PM
I will most certainly keep it in mind if this t3 only does not work (though it seems to be actually be getting noticeably better). Thanks for reminding me of it bro and keeping it fresh in my mind. Might have to go do some sleuthing on it just in case....
- 06-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Glad to hear the T3 is going well for you. I'm so tempted to drop the T4, but I've gone this far that I'm just gonna ride it out til I get the bloodwork back to confirm everything. I'll also hit you back from your PM yesterday, in a bit.
06-25-2011, 11:32 PM
06-26-2011, 06:13 PM
06-26-2011, 06:41 PM
06-27-2011, 09:14 PM
06-29-2011, 12:14 PM
06-30-2011, 12:29 PM
Withania somnifera and Bauhinia purpurea in the regulation of circulating thyroid hormone concentrations in female mice.
Panda S, Kar A.
School of Life Sciences, Devi Ahilya University, Vigyan Bhavan, Indore, India. [email protected]
The effects of daily administration of Withania somnifera root extract (1.4 g/kg body wt.) and Bauhinia purpurea bark extract (2.5 mg/kg body wt.) for 20 days on thyroid function in female mice were investigated. While serum triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) concentrations were increased significantly by Bauhinia, Withania could enhance only serum T4 concentration. Both the plant extracts showed an increase in hepatic glucose-6-phosphatase (G-6-Pase) activity and antiperoxidative effects as indicated either by a decrease in hepatic lipid peroxidation (LPO) and/or by an increase in the activity of antioxidant enzyme(s). It appears that these plant extracts are capable of stimulating thyroid function in female mice.
*Bauhiniastatins 1-4 from Bauhinia purpurea
Sea Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum) is a dietary source of bio-available iodine. An additional benefit of Ascophyllum nodosum is its ability to increase glutathione peroxidase activity, an important antioxidant. Human thyrocytes synthesize and secrete extracellular glutathione peroxidase, which translocates into the intracellular space and prevents peroxidative damage of thyrocytes from diffusion of extracellular H202 during stimulation of thyroid-hormone synthesis.
Bladderwrack (Fucus vesiculosus), another dietary source of natural bio-available iodine, has been used by many societies throughout history. Bladderwrack has also demonstrated anti-estrogen properties in both human and animal studies, suggesting that it may contribute protective health to estrogen sensitive tissues.
Guggulsterone (Commiphora mukul) has shown an ability to support thyroid function, especially through increased conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver, the principle site of T3 generation.* The effects of guggulsterone may be due to its ability to activate multiple receptors on the nuclear membrane, including thyroid receptors (alpha & beta), retinoic acid receptors, (which pairs with thyroid receptors), and the vitamin D receptor, which also plays a role in thyroid function. Guggulsterone, a component of Commiphora mukul supports healthy cholesterol levels and affects LDL oxidation, an important feature since the oxidation of LDL may have an effect on cardiovascular health, a critical concern for those with sub-optimal thyroid function
Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) provides carnosic acid, a polyphenolic diterpene that at low concentrations increases the expression of vitamin D and retinoid receptors. Retinoid-X-receptors (RXR) undergo heterodimerization with thyroid hormone receptors (TR). The RXR/TR heterodimers have been proposed to be the principle mediators of target gene regulation by T3 hormone. The ability of carnosic acid to also affect retinoic acid receptors may increase its importance as a TR agonist. Rosemary also contributes rosmarinic acid, which has significant antioxidant and anxiolytic properties. An additional constituent, carnosol, may support healthy metalloproteinase-9 activity and healthy NF-kappaB activity, which may be responsible for its support of normal immune system function.
Sage (Salvia officinalis) has long been recognized as a very rich source of the antioxidant carnosic acid which, as noted above, can increase T3 activity through improved RXR/TR heterodimerization. Important features of Salvia officinalis are also its memory supportive properties, including memory retention, more efficient memory retrieval and improved mood and cognitive task performance.
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) demonstrated an ability to directly act on the thyroid to raise serum levels of thyroid hormones in animal studies during the late 1990s. Though inconclusive, a case review in late 2005 indicated that Ashwagandha may have the ability to raise serum levels of thyroid hormones in humans. Ashwagandha has also been attributed as having a number of adaptogenic properties including neuroprotective properties.
Coleus (Coleus forskohlii) contains forskolin, a potent activator of the cyclic AMP-generating system in many tissues including the thyroid, and increases T3 & T4 secretion from thyrocytes in a fashion similar to TSH, though independent from TSH. Forskolin is specifically able to mimic the effect of TSH in regard to iodide uptake, organification of iodine, thyroglobulin (TG) production, and promote secretion of T3 & T4, through an increase in the expression of sodium/iodide symporter (NIS) proteins.
Brahmi (Bacopa monniera) It has been proposed that the mechanism behind the action of Bacopa is due to an increase in certain enzymes that aid in the repair of neurons and neuronal synthesis, synaptic activity, and ultimately nerve impulse transmission. Other research points to a protective antioxidant effect that may be responsible for the improved neuronal functioning seen with Bacopa administration.
Bacopa's traditional use as an anti-anxiety remedy in Ayurvedic medicine is supported by both animal and clinical research. Research using a rat model of clinical anxiety demonstrated a Bacopa extract of 25-percent bacoside A exerted anxiolytic activity comparable to Lorazepam, a common benzodiazapene anxiolytic drug. Importantly, the Bacopa extract did not induce amnesia, side effects associated with Lorazepam, but instead had a memory-enhancing effect.
Last but not least, in animal studies Bacopa has been shown to increase T(4) concentration by 41% without enhancing hepatic lipid peroxidation (LPO) suggesting that it can be used as a thyroid-stimulating drug. In fact, hepatic LPO was decreased and superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase (CAT) activities were increased by B. monnieri. LPO is a bad thing because it creates a chain reaction of cell-damaging free radicals. SOD and catalase on the other hand quench harmful free radicals
Hops (Humulus lupulus) can increase the uptake of iodide into the thyroid gland, a fundamental step in thyroid hormone synthesis, through interactions with sodium-iodide-symporter (NIS) proteins. This observation is quite the opposite of many other plant-derived phenolic secondary metabolites such as isoflavonoids, which can potentially inhibit iodide uptake. Xanthohumol, a chalcone found in Humulus lupulus, plays a critical role in supporting normal blood lipid and glucose metabolism.
07-04-2011, 10:04 PM
07-07-2011, 10:57 AM
I read something about carnitine states it also affects hypothyroid negatively but is great for hyperthroid. Studies done used doses of 2000 to 4000mg per day.
07-07-2011, 10:58 AM
Effect of alpha-lipoic acid on the peripheral conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and on serum lipid-, protein- and glucose levels.
07-07-2011, 11:36 AM
07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
Based on my research I am not a fan of T4 only treatment as there is no guarantee that proper conversion to T3 will take place. It is completely possible to have a normal TSH reading via T4 while the T3 levels aren't good. Furthermore, it is possible to have a normal T3 level and still be deficient as the ratio of reverse T3 to active T3 could be too high. Regular T3 testing doesn't distinguish between the two forms. Reverse T3 is not active and worse, it binds to T3 receptor sites inhibiting active T3 from binding to the receptor sites. That is why I really wish I had gotten my rev. T3 test. In the meantime I am slowly working up my T4 dosage. Very strange but all of it is discouraging and encouraging at the same time. It sucks to find out your body is screwed up, but then it helps explain things that have been difficult and gives hope that there may be a remedy in site.
I will update after my appointment next week.
07-07-2011, 01:56 PM
07-07-2011, 03:16 PM
Good luck, bro, and we're all in this thing together.
07-12-2011, 07:40 PM
dude i feel this... it takes me weeks to lose a pound. on a low calorie diet with over 190 pounds of muscle lol.. maybe i have problems.. or maybe i just dont drink water =/
heres a good page i didnt see sourced... lots of info.
thyroiduk dot org
07-12-2011, 09:06 PM
There are some excellent tips in this thread. Thank you everyone for sharing.
I also suffer from hypothyroidism since I was about 13 years old. Judging by the doses of the T4 that you're taking, I am guessing I'm a little bit on the more severe side since I've been at 150mcg of Synthroid daily...
Unfortunately every doctor I've ever visited regarding it has been very vague about what my blood work numbers come back as and every time I mention supplementing in T3, they basically shrug me off as if I was advocating some old wives tale remedy. Everything I've ever read about taking T3 has been beneficial, but none of my doctors have wanted to put any time into going over the information with me. Very frustrating.
One other tip that I could pass along to help, which was given to me very sternly from an endocrinologist of mine, is that you NEVER take Synthroid [or other T4 medication] with calcium. The two supplements should be taken as far apart as possible, since calcium blocks the absorption of the hormone. No scientific backing behind this, but thought I'd pass it on to anyone taking a multivitamin with their medication like I used to.
07-12-2011, 10:36 PM
Good tip imp, i never knew that. Calcium blocks absorption of a number of things. Iron being another. As far as your situation goes, i think the best advice i could give, and im sure beast will agree, is that you have a right to know what the numbers are on any bloodwork you get done. And if they are being too vague about it for you, ask for copies of your labwork and do some research on the specifics of what the numbers mean and how they relate to your particular situation and symptoms. Unless you really find a gem of a doc, they can all have kind of a "definitive authority" type of attitude when treating you. In reality, the world of healthcare moves sooo fast that nobody is the definitive authority on how to treat someone. Nothing wrong with seeking a second or even third opinion, even printing off some research u have done and brining it to an open minded doc. I think the bst quote about how to put it that i have heard is basically dont be a backseat passenger on treating YOUR body
This has turned into a really great thread beast, i give u all the props in the world for making this thread and telling your story....which i guarantee you will turn out to have a happy ending bro.
07-12-2011, 10:54 PM
Wow. This thread keeps getting better, thanks for sharing some great info.
Question(sorry if it was asked) any thoughts on PES shift (3,3), anyone with a "true" problem thinking about trying it, any body think it will make a diff.
07-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Well, its basically t2 as far as i know. Not much is ever really written on t2, the only two thyroid hormones ever mentioned are the obvious t3 and t4. There is actually a really really great sticky over in the anabolics section, i believe its in the cycle info section. Im on my cell so i cant check and link u right now, but it gives an overview of t3 and actually goes into quite a bit of detail on t2 as well and how the two compare.
Now that you mention it that would seem like a great sponsored log for pes to do with someone where they get bloods done pre shift or alpha t2 and then get a thyroid panel done again 4 to 6 weeks or what have u in, and see the effect it had on their numbers. Id certainly be curious...
07-12-2011, 11:19 PM
As far as why docs don't want to go with T3, there are really 2 main reasons:
1. T3 has a shorter half life and it's much easier to spike levels, be imbalanced and experience hyperthyroidism symptoms, as well (versus T4 taking a long time to build up, taking it once a day and not worrying).
2. T3 when taken improperly or too long (read: too much and/or for too long of a duration), you will kill off your natural thyroid production and be dependent upon T3 for the rest of your life.
T4 (Levothyroxine/Synthroid) should be the first choice as it forces your natural thyroid to convert it into the active of T3, thus keeping your thyroid "alive." However, when it doesn't work (in cases of Reverse T3 dominance or when someone has their thyroid removed, etc.), you revert to using T3 because that's what you HAVE to do. It's not the first choice, but you have to do what works.
So that's why doctors are shy to suggest T3; it's understandable. However, they need to be open to it in cases where T4 isn't working.
My endocrinologist had me on 112mcg/day of T4 at a max and said that was about the most one could take without killing off natural thyroid production, so you may want to inquire about that with a dose of 150. My endo could be completely off, but it's worth asking about.
But yeah, you definitely want to know your numbers and understand it yourself. If I didn't do that, I'd still be on 50mcg of Synthroid right now. Granted I still weigh 244 lbs, but I'm closer to being able to lose it now than I would have been if I didn't bust it on my own and expected the doctor to know best lol.
But in theory (to me), one on synthetic thyroid hormone should be able to manipulate their thyroid to perform at the level they specifically want.
07-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Went to my new doctor yesterday who is alternative in his thinking and approaches. He spent 1 1/2hrs. with me talking through things, very thorough and a very good listener. He was quite displeased with the mentality of my initial physician who advocated T4 only therapy and disregarded all labs but the TSH. He is starting me on dessicated thyroid (Nature's) at 1/2 grain for 10 days, then up to 1 grain, then up to 1 1/2 grains which he thinks will be my sweet spot. I will keep taking 25 mcg of the levothyroxine and may or may not discontinue that in the future. The idea is that I work up to a dose were I feel good without any hypo symptoms. If I go up and hit a dose where I start to have some hyper. symptoms then I drop back to the lower dose. In this way I will figure out my ideal dosing.
He also is running some other blood work. He is getting the reverse T3 and thyroid antibodies that I failed to get before as well as hair analysis, urine analysis, organic acids analysis (via blood), and a few other tests. He said I some indications that could possibly reflect heavy metal poisoning. I couldn't help but think of all the supps. I take that could have Chinese sources and may possibly have too high of lead content etc. I will get all of that testing back in 6 weeks or so when I go to see him again. He also thought I might have a B12 deficiency even though I already supplement B12 via sublingual tabs. He had a B12 test run too and gave me a B12 shot. Told me if I noticed a energy/mental boost over the next couple days that he would call in a scrip. for weekly B12 injections which I can do at home.
Oh yeah, he had me go get an ultrasound of my thyroid too as he felt some minor enlargement and just wanted to cover all the bases; fortunately that didn't show anything negative, just a slight enlargement.
All in all I felt very good coming out of yesterday and for once have confidence in my doctor which is a welcome relief. I will update as to whether or not I start to feel any improvement from the dessicated thyroid/B12 treatment. Thusfar I have been on the T4 for 1 1/2 weeks and haven't noticed any big changes with regard to my symptoms so I am really hoping this upgraded protocol will start to have an effect.
07-13-2011, 12:29 PM
07-13-2011, 12:38 PM
I have slight hyperthyroidism and VA doctors wants to abate (kill) part of my thyroid and give me pills to fix it. Some people who knows please respond
07-13-2011, 12:51 PM
wow, wish I had that "problem" Is it severe enough that you look malnutritioned? Unless that is the case, or not being able to put on weight really really....really bothers you I'm not sure I would do anything personally.
The most widely used treatment is radioactive iodine treatment. It kills off a percentage of the thyroid cells that absorb iodine. There are of course also pills you can take, methimazole and propylthiouracil both interfere with the thyroid and work to suppress it in hyper patients.
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