Keto is it Dangerous?

dbl38

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So I started a keto diet on Monday and I am not planning to run it more than a few weeks to simply reset my metabolism.

I asked one of the trainers at the gym about it his experiences with it to get a better idea of what to expect. So the trainer tells me that the diet will work great to screw me up and send me to hospital? He said that it really only works if your on a ton of gear!!

Also he said that I will lose a bunch of muscle? He asked me if I was trying a Palumbo diet and even his description of that was off.

Everything I have read tells me that it is not dangerous and will not catabolise my muscle- Can anybody clarify this for me or is the trainer an idiot?
 
MidwestBeast

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You're fine. That guy has likely never actually researched it.

I've had great success with a keto diet. I actually enjoy it, too. You've got the right idea by only running it short term. Hit your carb refeeds properly and you're good to go.
 
bakerderek0

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Some of these trainers...lol. Most of their customers never question stuff they say so they just say bullcrap alot.
 

dbl38

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I would really like to give the guy credit he has some fairly impressive trophies under his belt and really seems to want to be helpful.

As far a refeed goes, in TDH's thread it says to wait 14 days but in other places I have seen it scheduled weekly. I was considering going for one on the 6th day of about 500g of carbs-any imput?

My brain has stopped working and I have the worst taste in my mouth?
 

tubbednova

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Any diet is dangerous.You have to balance your training to make up for your goals.
 
EasyEJL

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I would really like to give the guy credit he has some fairly impressive trophies under his belt and really seems to want to be helpful.

As far a refeed goes, in TDH's thread it says to wait 14 days but in other places I have seen it scheduled weekly. I was considering going for one on the 6th day of about 500g of carbs-any imput?

My brain has stopped working and I have the worst taste in my mouth?
you can do the wrong thing with enough intensity and frequently enough to make progress so trophies aren't worth crap.

The keto diet isn't dangerous, at the same time theres no evidence of it being advantageous to anyone except epileptics. Regardless of anectdotal broscience reports, theres no scientific evidence i've been able to find showing a ketogenic diet at x calories to preserve more muscle/lose more fat than a non ketogenic diet at x calories.
 
MidwestBeast

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I would really like to give the guy credit he has some fairly impressive trophies under his belt and really seems to want to be helpful.

As far a refeed goes, in TDH's thread it says to wait 14 days but in other places I have seen it scheduled weekly. I was considering going for one on the 6th day of about 500g of carbs-any imput?

My brain has stopped working and I have the worst taste in my mouth?
Every person's body responds differently.

There's a guy at my gym who played college football. He's probably 45 or so and looks like an absolute beast. That being said, I lift more weight than he does and also use proper form. He's got all the young kids coming up to him asking for advice and half of what he tells them I don't agree with whatsoever. But, when you're a genetic freak and gifted like that, it doesn't really matter. I've also got a friend who was a nationally ranked jumper in track who could eat McDonalds every single day and still look better than anyone else.

With keto, I tried to go as long as possible for a refeed the last time I did it and I ended up cramping up due to dehydration and electrolyte imbalance pretty badly with as hard as I was working out (around 7 or 8 days in). I like to do smaller refeeds (that fit into my general macro scheme) twice a week. I pick a day I'm lifting heavy and the following day I have a smaller muscle group to work for my refeed days. I usually only took in about 250g or so each day and did just fine.
 
EasyEJL

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oh and as far as your brain stopping and all today, this is because probably today you are really in ketosis. you've exhausted your glycogen reserves and your body is making the switch to burning ketones. In a day or two you should feel a lot better.
 
SouthernCharm

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I'm sorry bro, but I laughed a little at the title of the question.. Im really suprised a trainer would say that to you, but then again Ive heard some really stupid things in my lifetime lol.

Keto is NOT dangerous, especially if you are eating really clean. What I mean by this is avoiding heavy dairy (cheese, whipping cream, buttermilk, etc) and consuming plenty of Omega 3, 6 and 9. Eat plenty of eggs, lean meats, green, fibrous vegetables and healthy fats. Your carb loading phases should not be "cheat days" they should be clean as well with your main goal to replenish glycogen levels. You also need to tailor your diet to work around your routine, or vice verse. So do your heaviest workouts once your body is saturated with glycogen, to maintain the most strenth and retain the most amount of lean mass.

I see a lot of people eating too high of protein on this diet. If you actually read into it, most of your calories should really come from fat. About 10% of the protein you ingest will be processed by the body into glucose, altering your blood sugar levels, which could keep you out of deep keto. Balance your protein and fats, your body will utilize fats as energy and you will realize that this is a muscle sparing process.

Keto should also not be run for long periods of time. I ran my last run for about 8 weeks, and in my opinion, for ME, it was a couple of weeks too long. My body began to adapt even while eating a clean diet and shifting my intake down a bit to adjust to new weight lost.
 
EasyEJL

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Keto should also not be run for long periods of time. I ran my last run for about 8 weeks, and in my opinion, for ME, it was a couple of weeks too long. My body began to adapt even while eating a clean diet and shifting my intake down a bit to adjust to new weight lost.
realistically though, just from the safety standpoint you are wrong on this part as the original design for the ketogenic diet came from attempting to help control epileptic seizures in children without using drugs (which it is effective for). So those kids were on ketogenic diets for years at a time without adverse effects. Of course as far as fat loss/muscle growth thats a different question.
 
SouthernCharm

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realistically though, just from the safety standpoint you are wrong on this part as the original design for the ketogenic diet came from attempting to help control epileptic seizures in children without using drugs (which it is effective for). So those kids were on ketogenic diets for years at a time without adverse effects. Of course as far as fat loss/muscle growth thats a different question.

Youre right. Its more of a lifestyle change for the people who need it. Let me correct myself, when run for aesthetics, keto works best in limited runs. Thanks bro.
 

ephedroman

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I would really like to give the guy credit he has some fairly impressive trophies under his belt and really seems to want to be helpful.

As far a refeed goes, in TDH's thread it says to wait 14 days but in other places I have seen it scheduled weekly. I was considering going for one on the 6th day of about 500g of carbs-any imput?

My brain has stopped working and I have the worst taste in my mouth?
Congrats on jumping on the keto bandwagon, it will yield great results man as will any diet of this nature if your on your game. I knew keto breath was a real thing though! Im doing it right now and my breath smells like straight ass even after I brushed my teeth this morning. Im betting its the conversion happening from my liver producing those rank ass ketones.
 

dbl38

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I am trying to stay a clean with this as possible but its a bit hard to rearange my thinking with fats. So far I have kept it to steak,chicken, bacon, tuna, almonds, natural peanut butter, brocolli, lean ground beef, and eggs. I added butter to the eggs this morn and patted up GB last night with olive oil and one slice of real cheese.

I plan on adding in avacado,carrots, and maybe cauliflower.
I want to pick up some salmon as to limit my canned tuna consumption (I had real mayonnaise for the first time in years and man is it GOOD!!!)

I am having a hard time figuring out the veggie thing though only because I don't know how to cook a lot of things?? I can only take so much brocolli!!!
 
CoorsLight126

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Keto sucks. Why would you go so extreme at first as to go into ketosis when you could just clean your diet up, eat healthy, and still get great results while holding more strength and size? My advice; get everything where it needs to be so carb refeeds are not necessary. BTW, he said "brain dead" funny how so many trashed me in my other thread by making this point. No, ketones wont help your brain function as well, get used to being a moron and borderline retarded on this diet bro. And losing muscle!!
 

dbl38

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Keto sucks. Why would you go so extreme at first as to go into ketosis when you could just clean your diet up, eat healthy, and still get great results while holding more strength and size? My advice; get everything where it needs to be so carb refeeds are not necessary. BTW, he said "brain dead" funny how so many trashed me in my other thread by making this point. No, ketones wont help your brain function as well, get used to being a moron and borderline retarded on this diet bro. And losing muscle!!
My diet couldn't have gotten much cleaner and the reason I am doing this is to see what might work best for me, also if you don't have anything constructive to say please spend your time somewhere else.
 
SouthernCharm

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Funny I had a great amount of energy on keto and did not find myself "brain dead" like you state... Just shows some things work for some but not others. I can tell you're not a big fan of keto but your accusations are nothing but your opinion.
 

dbl38

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I have found a great deal of energy today and the fog has lifted!!
 
MidwestBeast

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dbl38

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Week one down but I'm not sure about this one? Energy is much better but I haven't lost an once of weight? I am not able to drink gallons of water due to my schedule and the extra sodium from the meats may just have me holding a ton of water?

Can anyone give me link to a daily breakdown of a meal plan?
 
Carcaya

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Keto sucks. Why would you go so extreme at first as to go into ketosis when you could just clean your diet up, eat healthy, and still get great results while holding more strength and size? My advice; get everything where it needs to be so carb refeeds are not necessary. BTW, he said "brain dead" funny how so many trashed me in my other thread by making this point. No, ketones wont help your brain function as well, get used to being a moron and borderline retarded on this diet bro. And losing muscle!!
This is called his opinion on the diet. This is what you asked for - what people think about keto. I will echo his same thoughts to you as well. I think there are much better ways to go about things than craving carbs so bad that you want to stab someone. I have done plenty of keto and other diet types and personally think that a straight up calorie monitored diet is more effective, simply because you don't feel like a piece of dump.
 
MidwestBeast

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This is called his opinion on the diet. This is what you asked for - what people think about keto. I will echo his same thoughts to you as well. I think there are much better ways to go about things than craving carbs so bad that you want to stab someone. I have done plenty of keto and other diet types and personally think that a straight up calorie monitored diet is more effective, simply because you don't feel like a piece of dump.
I'll add that I've felt often better than ever on keto diets. Especially if you have your refeeds set up appropriately, you don't find yourself craving carbs. You use them to refuel, and refill glycogen.

My energy levels have never suffered on keto and my overall sense of well being has been pretty darn good, too.
 
Red Dog

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Is it dangerous? No, I don't think so. In fact, I would say that it's "better" from an overall health standpoint than a high-carbohydrate low-fat diet. I would also say that most diets are situation or goal-specific and that a given diet is almost certainly not ideal across all health and fitness goals.

But most importantly, you'll get widely varied responses with a question like this ranging from the most negative to the most positive with about 1000 different intermediate levels of effectiveness.

Just give it a shot and see for yourself whether it works with your lifestyle and helps you achieve your specific goals.
 
ax1

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I have 18 years dieting experience and nothing like losing 50 lbs without feeling hungry on low carb dieting. So that is an advantage, you can cut calories and get a full feeling and be satisfied all day long.

Everybody just have to find what works for them, keto/low carb dieting isnt for everybody. If your comfortable with it by all means stick with it, other options may be better suited for other people, to each their own.

Before and after photos of me! I take criticism of keto dieting a little personal, because without it I wouldnt be where I am today. It sucks having bad genetics, and keto/low carb changed my life around.



 
jlinteris

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Just as a heads up, the bad breath is acetone and I found that my breath was bad too until I got a tongue scraper. It has a toobrush like side on it, and the other side is a scraper to remove everything the brush has lifted. Even when my tongue looks clean I scrape it 2-3 times a day and my breath stays completely fine, even without gum. If I dont scrape it is gets pretty bad
 
ax1

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Just as a heads up, the bad breath is acetone and I found that my breath was bad too until I got a tongue scraper. It has a toobrush like side on it, and the other side is a scraper to remove everything the brush has lifted. Even when my tongue looks clean I scrape it 2-3 times a day and my breath stays completely fine, even without gum. If I dont scrape it is gets pretty bad
lol...its smells kinda bad but its not really too offensive like garlic breath. Its nowhere near as bad as my farts and I do that often.
 
bakerderek0

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Man. You were such a fat disgusting slob, but now you're not. Great progress (srs)
 
ax1

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Man. You were such a fat disgusting slob, but now you're not. Great progress (srs)
Thanks...thats exactly the way I felt to be honest so Im not offended at all.

I gained weight like that low carb dieting too...I really learned that you do have to control what you eat and watch what you eat. At that time I was eating 1 pound steaks washing it down with 2-3 sausages, lol low carb dieting doesnt mean endless eating. Id order a double whopper throw out the bread and then go to the store right after that and eat a atkins bar for example...

geez I really learned the hard way but I hope people do understand quantity counts, and that with low carb dieting its possible to keep quantity low and feel totally satisfied with how much you eat.
 

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out of interest how may calories was every1 taking in on the keto diet ?
 
ax1

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out of interest how may calories was every1 taking in on the keto diet ?
Dont count....there is a point where It just gets too much work to be doing that, but after many many years you just get a good idea of how much you need. Controlled portion size does the trick, as well as eating quality food.
 

dbl38

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I'm going to look at my over all counts during the day tomorrow so that I can have a better base line understanding of my intake and adjust as needed.

My system cleaned itself out yesterday (my toilet is crying!!) so I can have a better idea of weight lost over the first week.
 
ax1

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I'm going to look at my over all counts during the day tomorrow so that I can have a better base line understanding of my intake and adjust as needed.

My system cleaned itself out yesterday (my toilet is crying!!) so I can have a better idea of weight lost over the first week.
The first week your going to mostly lose water weight. Carbs hold water, less carbs = less water. The first week is not necessarily a good gauge for progress.
 

dbl38

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Well from everything I had read I expected to lose water weight but didn't lose any weight. I want to determine my calorie consumption so I can gauge my intake.
 

dbl38

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OK so now the water weight is off!! I think I am beginning to get the hang of this. This week I have been able to sleep more so I have felt great and my energy level is very high! I have been boarder line crampy some days does this pass or can I adjust something to deal?
 
EasyEJL

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More water is about it, make sure you are getting enough potassium + sodium in.
 

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OP, tell your trainer to go watch the documentary Fathead.
 

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So I started a keto diet on Monday and I am not planning to run it more than a few weeks to simply reset my metabolism.

I asked one of the trainers at the gym about it his experiences with it to get a better idea of what to expect. So the trainer tells me that the diet will work great to screw me up and send me to hospital? He said that it really only works if your on a ton of gear!!

Also he said that I will lose a bunch of muscle? He asked me if I was trying a Palumbo diet and even his description of that was off.

Everything I have read tells me that it is not dangerous and will not catabolise my muscle- Can anybody clarify this for me or is the trainer an idiot?
A trainer told you that. Make sure you take a good fiber supp you will be fine.
 

dbl38

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A trainer told you that. Make sure you take a good fiber supp you will be fine.
I have been eating plenty of spinach and brocolli and everything is "moving" fine!!

I am curious about adjusting my calories over the next few weeks and meal timing? Anyone got any tips?

Started an Andro Hard/ Andro Lean Stack today so we'll see how this works
 
freezito

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sum good reading here, lets keep this going
 

ssbackwards

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you can do the wrong thing with enough intensity and frequently enough to make progress so trophies aren't worth crap.

The keto diet isn't dangerous, at the same time theres no evidence of it being advantageous to anyone except epileptics. Regardless of anectdotal broscience reports, theres no scientific evidence i've been able to find showing a ketogenic diet at x calories to preserve more muscle/lose more fat than a non ketogenic diet at x calories.
i will have to post the study when i have time at home but keto diets in men at +400 cals above maintanence are shown to still help you lose weight where as women cant do that....

they have a chart and everything.

ketogenic diets are shown to preserve more muscle then the standard high carb low fat diets. again i will search for these studies when i have time.
 
EasyEJL

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i will have to post the study when i have time at home but keto diets in men at +400 cals above maintanence are shown to still help you lose weight where as women cant do that....

they have a chart and everything.

ketogenic diets are shown to preserve more muscle then the standard high carb low fat diets. again i will search for these studies when i have time.
I can post the counter studies showing non ketogenic diets to lose fat at higher calories, and preserve more muscle too just FYI.
 

ssbackwards

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I can post the counter studies showing non ketogenic diets to lose fat at higher calories, and preserve more muscle too just FYI.
post em. but it depends on how high the high carb intake is. That is the variable.
 
EasyEJL

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There was a specific meta-study done using the atkins ketogenic, the zone diet, Ornish and one other and ketogenic had the worst muscle retention of them all, and less fat lost than all. I'll go dig that one up :)
 

ssbackwards

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There was a specific meta-study done using the atkins ketogenic, the zone diet, Ornish and one other and ketogenic had the worst muscle retention of them all, and less fat lost than all. I'll go dig that one up :)
that would be nice to read. havent read it.

the problem when people do ketogenic diets they drop cals so low because they think that its just the ketones that preserve the muscle.

Not exactly true.

im very excited to read this, discussion time soon.
 

dbl38

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I would just like to see more info on meals and timing of them.
 
EasyEJL

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I would just like to see more info on meals and timing of them.
I'll give you the cliff notes, no significant difference in body comp or nitrogen retention between 2 meals and 8 a day has ever been shown in a study. At one meal a day there is a limit to protein absorption

The primary value to large meals when losing fat is you are never starving hungry, just mostly hungry all day. And when bulking you are never quite forcing yourself to eat a huge meal, but just always eating something.
 
CCV3

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Keto gives me serious head aches. Yes I know it eventually goes away but breaking that wall just isn't worth it. I can cut without going completely keto. I carb up once in the morning, that's it. Sometimes I will do a light carb (15g or so) pre work out, but that's about it.

Keep in mind I only lift 3 times a week. The rest of the time I'm boxing. So burning cals isn't an issue.
 
ax1

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Keto gives me serious head aches. Yes I know it eventually goes away but breaking that wall just isn't worth it. I can cut without going completely keto. I carb up once in the morning, that's it. Sometimes I will do a light carb (15g or so) pre work out, but that's about it.

Keep in mind I only lift 3 times a week. The rest of the time I'm boxing. So burning cals isn't an issue.
Thats weird...never got headaches before.

Keto isnt necessary for cutting, I keep my carb intake 40-60 grams a day, when cutting I just eat less calories or do more cardio to burn off more.
 
CCV3

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Thats weird...never got headaches before.

Keto isnt necessary for cutting, I keep my carb intake 40-60 grams a day, when cutting I just eat less calories or do more cardio to burn off more.
It's not uncommon at all. I get really bad ones.

I agree, it isn't necessary to cut. That's why i don't do it anymore. I keep mine at around 60-75 a day. Actually, Keto set me back about a year. A couple years ago I thought "oh ya, I'll carb cycle (3 on / 3 off) get all shredded, etc.". I dropped down to about 150 and looked horrible.

So ya, hovering low always works best.
 

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