Clen, Keto, and T3
- 12-13-2010, 07:22 AM
- 12-14-2010, 08:08 AM
bump. I guess this question might be okay... it's not an illegal for consumption...
assuming I have all my training and diet in check, can someone help me out here?
- 12-19-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm not even sure what your question is.
Clen is based on the individual person. For me, up to 200mcgs doesn't really do it for me, while my friend is sweating bullets off 40mcgs.
Keto, are you talking about the diet or the 7 DHEA gel tabs?
As far as T3, I wouldn't do it without something to preserve the muscles. At minimum I would run it with 20mg of var, but really I wouldn't do it without test. Do T4 instead, if you are looking to keep it mild.
Anyways, so ya...your question is a little hard to answer.
Not sure what it really is.
12-20-2010, 08:13 AM
Keto meaning Ketotifen
Clen meaning Clenbuterol
T3 meaning, well... T3...
Since Ketotifen is commonly taken w/ Clen, and I mentions "above 3 substances," I assumed (incorrectly I guess) that people would know that I wasn't talking about a ketogenic diet....
I'm asking what you would suggest for a cycle of the three.
As for T3, I heard that dosage at about 25mcg is sufficient to bump fatloss, but not eat away at muscle.
would a 6-wk cycle of all 3 be okay? I know that ketotifen run simultaneously w/ Clen can allow cycles past the normal 2wks. Thinking of dosing T3 at 25mcg throughout, clen starting at 20mcg, and gradually tapering up to a max of 200mcg depending on my tolerance, and ketotifen starting week 2 at 2mg per day until end of cycle.
12-20-2010, 06:55 PM
Got it. I thought you meant 7-Keto DHEA which is also used in conjunction to help lose fat.
I'm not a big fan of clen, but you have the right idea. Start low and go high. No need to taper down in my opinion. I have never liked it enough to take a benadryl or anything allowing me to run it more than 2 weeks. My body adapts to it wayyy too quick. If you want to stay "on" some type of cutting oral go 2 weeks clen then 2 weeks eca. Do that twice, total being 8 weeks.
Your body adapts to T3 as well though. You should cycle up and off.
Keeping it at 25mcg steady isn't a very good idea. First, you will always lose muscle on a cut and the T3 wouldn't make it any better. Second, to have a steady rate of 25mcg for 6 weeks would worry me on burning out my actual thyroid.
I've had experiences, just found better ways to cut without those.
Although I would run T3 with test though. No objection there...
Without test I would run T4. Better option...
12-21-2010, 12:37 AM
I see. Thanks.
Well, I can't get any injectables, although I do have 1/2 a bottle of mdrol left. Perhaps I can low-dose that in to my cut somehow to act as the anabolic in place of test. I've been reading that t3 can be dosed much higher than 25mcg, but also dosed in 3-wk cycles... so I guess I can see how my body reacts before deciding on my clen cycle. I don't have any ECA either, since ephederine is highly illegal (as bad as crack) in Japan. That's why I was looking for a longer clen cycle.
What do you think about a 6wk clen+ketotifen cycle with t3 being introduced in weeks 2-5 only, and low-dosing mdrol (2.5~5mg/day) weeks 1-5?
12-21-2010, 10:37 AM
You can't get Primatene or Bronkaid, or some Japanese OTC equivalent?
But you can get Ketotifen and Clen???
12-21-2010, 12:44 PM
I've been to Japan twice. Actually going again next year.
It's hard enough to find a decent gym out there.
Anyways, ya T3 can be done up to 75mcg.
It's just one of those chems that can mess you up if it isn't done properly. There really isn't any thyroid therapy. If you burn it out, well, it takes a long time to get back. My friend messed his up and he was literally incapable of burning fat for about a year. Empty stomach 1 hour morning cardio did nothing for him. Plus I know a couple people that got burnt out on it. So be a little cautious.
>What do you think about a 6wk clen+ketotifen cycle with t3 being introduced in weeks >2-5 only, and low-dosing mdrol (2.5~5mg/day) weeks 1-5?
Can you get any oral's?
I would prefer doing anavar to prevent muscle waste, rather than mdrol.
It sucks you can't get any Ephedrine.
Ideal would be 8 weeks clen/eca/clen/eca
Scrap the keto.
T4 at 50mcg EOD.
That's a clean and much safer routine.
12-21-2010, 06:28 PM
Yeah, apparently anything that can lead to the manufacture of an illegal stimulant is illegal, so pseudoephederine products like most U.S. cold medications, are illegal here. However, I can mail order almost anything else. AAS are legal here, pins are not. Go figure. However, there's not list of banned substances that I know of, just vague descriptions of what's legal and illegal. So I figure whatever I order, if it gets past customs, I'm good.
Thanks for your advice. I've read about T3 burnout, that's why I don't want to dose past 25mcg. I've read somewhere that 25mcg is a good dose since the body should make just under that amount naturally, so doubling that amount shouldn't be much of an issue. Seen reports of people cycling upwards of 100mcg+, so I think 25 should be fine. T3 was cheap anyways.
Why skip the anti-histamine? I will sometimes get hives at night for an unknown reason, and I would sometimes take a benadryl equivalent at night, so I figure ketotifen would be fine. Keeping the receptors upregulated and using less clen is more ideal isn't it? Or do you mean skip the ketotifen on the clen/eca cycle?
T4... hmmmm, I read a little about T4 in my T4/Clen research. guess I should research this a bit more.
I'm planning to start clen first, and then dose t3 after a week of clen, so I can always see how the first week goes, then decide if I want to continue to add t3 from there. I took the original ripped fuel back in 2001, that stuff was awsome. but since then, I haven't had anything that was anything close. Tried Hot-Rox, not much of an effect. VasoPro, slight effect, but noticed zilch after the first 2-3 days.... thus I'm looking to Clen now.
12-21-2010, 09:33 PM
Clen can make you tired as is, the antihistamine will make it worse. I have felt the need to add one anyway.
12-21-2010, 10:15 PM
clen making you tired... that's odd. how can something that's increasing your metabolism/fatburning make you tired... ?? As for ketotifen, I would be taking it in the evening so the lethargic effect is not much of an issue.
12-22-2010, 12:19 AM
Clen is a thermo, has nothing to do with energy.
It made me tired at first. Got used to it after a week. I got really bad pumps in the gym too since it hits the nervous system.
12-22-2010, 12:59 PM
Clen wrecked my cardio sessions, just an ill feeling and I burn a ****load more calories in a 90 minute cardio session than a measly few calories that clen will burn. So in my experience, it was not productive.
I take T3 from time to time, doesnt do much either in comparison to having a clean diet and cardio but I take it cuz I have it and when I take tren. I take 100mcg/day, thats my dose, no need to cycle down, just stop abruptly when quitting. Your thyroid will start working right away according to well documented scientific literature based on people taking it for many years b/c of misdiagnosis, when they stopped, all thyroids returned to normal function. Dont know where the thyroid burnout stuff got started but its been around for years but its not based on science, usually its a story of a friend of a friend etc...
However, if you are worried about that and dont believe in evidence-based medicine, I suggest skipping it and replacing it with 10 minutes of cardio to get the same effect.
Actually most of my experience is that all of that stuff is a waste of money and time, even the ECA stack, it doesnt burn that many calories in comparison to doign cardio. Its effects are b/c of loss of appetite from the beta agonist action thereby decreasing caloric intake.
In terms of actual metabolic boosting your probably looking at burning an additional 100-200 calories that you normally wouldnt have burned. Again, about 10 minutes worth of cardio, or not eating 1/4 of a snickers bar.
So I give the stuff a sideways thumb, not up or down.
What really is remarkable in helping losing fat via blocking the cannabinoid 1 receptor (think the reverse effect of marijuana giving the munchies) is rimonabant.
20mg a day, prevents cravings and overeating stimulated by exercise, if you arent prone to the side effects, it is a more useful aid in the weight loss quiver
12-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Interesting on the non tapering of the T3.
I never taper clen, but I wouldn't risk the non taper of T3 (burn out theory, friends, etc.). I have never looked into any scientific evidence of it, just took everyone's word for it. Plus I've seen it as well. I have ran blood to test my T3 levels and they are fine...
Agree on the ECA comments. It's just to suppress appetite. The energy feels good though...
12-23-2010, 05:41 PM
The boost in energy would definitely help the slump while in a caloric deficit though. But hey, I got some handy, and it was cheap, so why not use it. I'll look into the T3 thing some more though. Thanks.
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