[julius kelp]

i'm having a little trouble like i think a few are out there. if i eat about 2500kcals/day almost no carbs except pre/post train, i lean out nicely. along with the loss of muscle & strength. recently i have been on ph/ps, increased calories to about 3k & eating moderate portions of carbs each meal with very little fats, & switching over to protein/fat meals at night, i find myself stronger, & gaining weight & FAT. i seem to just go to one end or the other. how do you guys feed to gain muscle maybe slowly & stay lean. any objective concepts appreciated.

[DieTrying]

I'm with you in that I still have no clue what my maintenance amount is. It seems like anything around 2400 and I start losing, anything around 3000, I start looking like a toad. I guess its just that I have very small room for error.

[Jergo]

Yeah it takes a bit to find your sweet spot.

Do what I do man.....Buy an Accu-measure skin caliper and learn how to use the parrilo 9-sight formula and keep track of it by taking measurements once or twice/week...

Next, on that same day you take your BF, weigh yourself first thing in the morning after you do your deeds in the toilet....jot that down on a note pad and use the fomula to track and see how your bodyfat/LBM are doing at that specific caloric range that your consuming for the week...you'll be able to tell how much fat and how much muscle your gaining/losing at a consistent rate...and really thats all that matters; progression...

This is a serious weapon to have in your arsenal to keep close track of your bodily changes and being able to do a clean bulk with great success....now it's not gonna be a very fast change since you'll be monitoring every week, but you'll find that by doing that and making minimal changes every so often that you'll know exactly what to do and when to do it basically.

If you need the formula's to go along with the method, PM me and I'll help you out...

[julius kelp]

for me it's like i just can't eat carbs. i would think some oatmeal, brown rice, whole grain bread, potatoes, would be a neccessity when trying to bulid a little mass. i seem to just start gaining fat the day i start eating any of it.

[Rock Lee]

Have you tried throwing in two or three sessions of cardio each week when you feel you're gaining fat?

[Jay Mc]

maybe you're going about the fat portion wrong. If your diet is too low in fat your body is going to respond by storing all of it that it can.

J

[julius kelp]

doing low level cardio 3 x 45 minutes/wk (recumbent bike). diet is like 50/20/30 (p/c/f) with variances due to post train shakes maybe. i have been cutting the sugars back from them lately.

[Mike Oxlong]

What do you mean by low level? You could increase the intensity of your cardio if you're doing them on off days.

[Mike Oxlong]

Julius, I don't know if you've read that "Step by step Keto diet" on a sticky in this section. But If you have the will power to follow that diet strictly, I highly recommend it. Through experimenting with my diet, I'm pretty sure that I have a lower insulin sensitivy than most, so I try and stay away from fibreless carbs.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by Jay Mc

maybe you're going about the fat portion wrong. If your diet is too low in fat your body is going to respond by storing all of it that it can.

J

Where did you get that from?

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by julius kelp

i'm having a little trouble like i think a few are out there. if i eat about 2500kcals/day almost no carbs except pre/post train, i lean out nicely. along with the loss of muscle & strength. recently i have been on ph/ps, increased calories to about 3k & eating moderate portions of carbs each meal with very little fats, & switching over to protein/fat meals at night, i find myself stronger, & gaining weight & FAT. i seem to just go to one end or the other. how do you guys feed to gain muscle maybe slowly & stay lean. any objective concepts appreciated.

First, I don't follow the no carb diets anymore because they are completely counterproductive once you hit a certain bf% and cause more problems in the long run than help.

Second, if your getting fat its not because of insulin it is because of calories and types of carbs/fats you are consuming. Some saturated fats circutlate up to 9 hours in your system before breaking down. Add that with a carb source and you WILL get fat.

[Mike Oxlong]

Originally Posted by Bobo

Where did you get that from?

I've read that a few times. The theory behind it is that if you are getting less than your body's required fat intake, that your body will keep it's fat stores for future use and in turn store consumed fats because it thinks that not much more is coming in. The body must recognize that there are external fats coming in before it will relinquish it's stored fats.

[Jay Mc]

Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong

I've read that a few times. The theory behind it is that if you are getting less than your body's required fat intake, that your body will keep it's fat stores for future use and in turn store consumed fats because it thinks that not much more is coming in. The body must recognize that there are external fats coming in before it will relinquish it's stored fats.

Yeah, its exactly like how if you start starving yourself your body will shut down the metabolism. Fat is the body's contingency plan for times of dire starvation. Years of evolution have developed this mechanism. PLUS, if you are cutting way down on fat those calories have to come from somewhere...you got carbs and protein left...ok maybe ethanol but that would never work...so you either have to eat mega tons of protein or more carbs to get your calories. Its proven that when eating an excess of carbs your body will definately store nearly all the dietary fat you eat prefering to use the carbs as fuel.

On top of all that the psychological effects of fat are important as well as their impact on leptin signalling and the fed state. Fats taste good and make you feel full and satisfied. Fats get too low craving become hard to manage, just evolution kicking your ass again. So yeah, there are lots of reasons I think low fat diets suck but I'm sure everyone has their own opinion on how things should work. I guess at the end of the day, know your body and go w/what works for you.

J

[Yukon Cornelius]

It has nothing to do with the amount of fat you are cosuming, its amount of calories.

Fats physiological effects on the fed state? Thats carbs not fat. You raise leptin levels by the intake of overall calories and carbs. Increased glyocgen triggers the metabilic effects of the fed state and leptin is one of them. Plus if you 12% and higher its really not much of a concern. Only when you achieve very low bf% does this really factor in.


I don't know where your getting these myths from because they certainly are false. Its proven that when eating excess carbs your body will store all of them? WRONG. Carbohydrates have a better change of being oxidized more than any nutrient you ingest. Fats have the least chance and also have the lowest thermic effect of any nutrient. This is basic nutrition 101 that is taught in any college level nutrition class. If I consume excess fats or excess carbs, the % of nutrient being oxided is like 40% carbs compared to 10% fats. Increase carb AND fats and you have the real problem because insulin induces a rise in LPL while decreasing cAMP and HSL making fat storage optimal.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by Jay Mc

Its proven that when eating an excess of carbs your body will definately store nearly all the dietary fat you eat prefering to use the carbs as fuel.


J

So eat less fat because 1 on those 2 nutrients has a much better chance at being oxidized as fuel and one has a better chance of being converted into triglycerides. I assume you know the answer.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong

I've read that a few times. The theory behind it is that if you are getting less than your body's required fat intake, that your body will keep it's fat stores for future use and in turn store consumed fats because it thinks that not much more is coming in. The body must recognize that there are external fats coming in before it will relinquish it's stored fats.

They are wrong (whoever they are). Its calories, not fat.

[SJA]

After you look at your daily eating plan and get it stabilized....I would maybe raise your metabolism/expenditure with circuit/drop sets (after your heavy lifts) and instead of 3X45 recumbant bike, go for HIIT cardio 3X20 on an elliptical.