ok,so no bulk, no cut...

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  1. hmm, well then maybe 40/40/20 for awhile

    what is a good macronutient ratio for slowly gaining mass & losing fat? is there any preferred numbers? don't want to drop fats too low, or protein for that matter, but i almost wonder if i may have been doing too much protein (sacriledge!!!) i only carry like 170 lbs of muscle. i have to wonder if maybe the excess just ends up as glucose. i'm gonna try 40/40/20 (p/c/f) for awhile & raise/lower cals every week or two & see what happens.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    It has nothing to do with the amount of fat you are cosuming, its amount of calories.

    Fats physiological effects on the fed state? Thats carbs not fat. You raise leptin levels by the intake of overall calories and carbs. Increased glyocgen triggers the metabilic effects of the fed state and leptin is one of them. Plus if you 12% and higher its really not much of a concern. Only when you achieve very low bf% does this really factor in.

    I don't know where your getting these myths from because they certainly are false. Its proven that when eating excess carbs your body will store all of them? WRONG. Carbohydrates have a better change of being oxidized more than any nutrient you ingest. Fats have the least chance and also have the lowest thermic effect of any nutrient. This is basic nutrition 101 that is taught in any college level nutrition class. If I consume excess fats or excess carbs, the % of nutrient being oxided is like 40% carbs compared to 10% fats. Increase carb AND fats and you have the real problem because insulin induces a rise in LPL while decreasing cAMP and HSL making fat storage optimal.

    Here's one of the sources that I've read. Dr. Udo Erasmus. I would have responded earlier, but the only computer access I have is at work, and is limited to my little free time at work. Here's his website : http://www.fatsthatheal.com/writings.htm

    "Research has established that n-3 and n-6 essential fatty acids, but not monounsaturated, saturated, or trans- fatty acids play a major role in the body’s ability to burn fat. N-3 does it better than n-6. N-3 is inadequately supplied in the diets of 95-99% of affluent populations worldwide. In fact, our intake of n-3 today is only 1/6th of that found in diets

    in 1850, and diets 150 years ago did not supply optimum amounts of n-3. Our n-3 intake has declined to unprecedented lows.

    N-6 intake, on the other hand, has doubled in the past 100 years for people who eat the diets common in affluent populations. People on low fat, no fat, fake fat, fat blocker, fat substitute, and fat remover diets are likely to get too little n-6 as well as too little n-3.

    The ratio between n-3 and n-6 is far out of line with what it ought to be for good health and normal weight, and this has implications, both for health in general and for body fat and fat burning in particular. How do essential fats help burn body fat and make us slim? The answer has several parts.

    * All fats including essential fats suppress appetite.
    * Unlike carbohydrates, fats keep blood sugar and insulin levels stable, and prevent the high/low blood sugar cycle.
    * Essential fats improve thyroid function, and normalize metabolic rate and energy levels provided enough iodine is present in the diet.
    * N-3 essential fats decrease inflammation and water retention in tissues, (which is a large part of some overweight), and speed the removal of water held in tissues by means of the kidneys.
    * N-3 essential fats improve kidney function, making removal of excess water more efficient.
    * N-3 essential fats increase energy production, making it more likely that a person will be physically active. This, in turn, leads to more calories being burned, and increased muscle mass as a result of increased physical activity.
    * N-3 essential fats elevate mood and lift depression. Depressed people often experience loss of interest in life, and often sit around doing nothing. The better the mood, the less likely people are to eat more calories than they burn, and the more active they tend to be.

    Genes, Fats, and Healthy Weight Management

    Most important, n-3 essential fats affect the function of genes1,2, turning up several genes that increase fat burning, turning down the gene that leads to fat production, and turning on a gene that increases heat production in the body. Specifically, n-3 essential fats:

    1. Decrease fat production, by turning down the gene responsible for fat production (fatty acid synthase)
    2. Increase fat burning, by turning up at least 9 genes required for burning fats in the body
    3. Shift the body from using carbohydrates as fuel to using fats as fuel instead (fuel partitioning)
    4. Turn on a gene (uncoupling protein-3) that is responsible for thermogenesis. Thermogenesis is the process by which fats are burned off as heat, without work being done.

    So you can see that n-3 fats, which are especially lacking in the fat-phobic, carbohydrate junkie diets eaten by overweight people, are a major key for reducing body fat, and many different weight normalization mechanisms in the body are turned up by n-3 fats.

    Remember, however, that n-6 essential fats are also essential for building health and that the ratio between n-3 and n-6 must be right. Too much n-3 can lead to many health problems due to n-6 deficiency. Too much n-6 can lead to many health problems due to n-3 deficiency. Over the years, I have found that a ratio of 2: 1 of n-3 to n-6 in the diet gives optimum benefits in weight management without producing deficiency of either of the essential fats. "

  3. All those benefits are true but they still have nothing to do with leptin and the fed state. Your basically giving me the same opinion that Dr. Atkins and any low carbohydrate advocate gives which I'm very familiar with. For the most part they are true, for SEDENTARY people. But when you apply those concepts to a bodybuilder who needs constant replenishment of glycogen stores and who physiological effects are altered by low bf%, the needs are changed.

    Nothing in your post is untru but you seem to be jumping to the more detailed area withouth even understanding that the structure of a fat in itself takes longer to burn than any carbohydrate. THis is the basic thermic value of any food. Its WHY 1g of fat equals 9 calories. Fat ALWAYS have a better chance of being stored as triglycerides than carbohydrates.

    "So you can see that n-3 fats, which are especially lacking in the fat-phobic, carbohydrate junkie diets eaten by overweight people, are a major key for reducing body fat, and many different weight normalization mechanisms in the body are turned up by n-3 fats."

    Its not just n-3 fats, its also controlling glucose levels with smarter low GI carb sources. Udo is selling the low carbohydrate method so of course he is going to concentrate on fats. You can easily have an adequate amount of N-3 and N-6 fats and STILL be on a low fat diet.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  4. well put


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