CARDIO QUESTIONS...HOW MUCH SHOULD YOU DO?

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    CARDIO QUESTIONS...HOW MUCH SHOULD YOU DO?


    Ok I weigh about 170-175 and have some fat on my frame. My stomach and chest carry the most amount of fat around my body, with my legs and arms being very lean. My question is: How much is too much cardio? I see some recommend doing 5x week, some 3x week, and some say don't do any at all!! I want to preserve as much muscle mass as possible and I don't want to be SKINNY, I just want to be SHREDDED AND MUSCULAR (steroids anyone? lol) I ultimately want to lean down to see if the chest fat I have is fat and not gyno since i've done a few cycles in the past. I carb cycle for my diet with 2 days high carb, 2 days low carb, and 3 days zero carb.

    Monday: High Carb Day (6 Meals with 50g each meal)
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Chest and Abs PM

    Tuesday: Zero Carb (Aim for zero carbs but realistically <20 grams day)
    Back and Abs PM

    Wednesday: Low Carb (50g Breakfast, Pre-workout, post-workout)
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Shoulders and Abs PM

    Thursday: Zero Carb
    40 Minutes Cardio

    Friday: High Carb
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Arms and Abs PM

    Saturday: Zero Carb
    Legs

    Sunday: Low Carb
    Off


    Seem like a good training Regime? Any tweaking necessary?

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    its tough to maintain muscle mass while trying to loose some fat but i would recommend doing cardio first thing in the morning on a empty stomach and before you go to bed.
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    depends if you are looking to gain more mass then my advice on cardio is no bueno.

    You already know I'm sure that no carb diets are no good for you. Bad for hormones, energy, etc etc... and if you're gonna do no or super low carb for pure cuts, you need to do it for at least a few days STRICT before you go into ketosis. That being said, if you want the fastest shred possible and don't care about your heart, arteries, moods, or boners for a little while... do really really low carb, lots of meat and protein, cardio in the AM (at least 30 minutes if you're doing something like jogging or biking, longer time is better if you are just jogging, sprint training is far more effective time wise) and lift your weights later in the day. Still do your protein shakes, eat all you want as long as its meat, and DO NOT cheat on your diet. Get some keto sticks so you know you're in ketosis... any cardio you do in ketosis will shed pounds faster than you thought humanly possible.

    There's nothing wrong with doing cardio every day if you're trying to shed flab fast instead trying to gain, just maintain your mass.. Just know if you're doing a keto diet you'll snap back if you don't stay very strict for quite some time afterwards... and its not good for you... but that doesn't stop me from doing it if I need to get skinny fast
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReBilly View Post
    depends if you are looking to gain more mass then my advice on cardio is no bueno.

    You already know I'm sure that no carb diets are no good for you. Bad for hormones, energy, etc etc... and if you're gonna do no or super low carb for pure cuts, you need to do it for at least a few days STRICT before you go into ketosis. That being said, if you want the fastest shred possible and don't care about your heart, arteries, moods, or boners for a little while... do really really low carb, lots of meat and protein, cardio in the AM (at least 30 minutes if you're doing something like jogging or biking, longer time is better if you are just jogging, sprint training is far more effective time wise) and lift your weights later in the day. Still do your protein shakes, eat all you want as long as its meat, and DO NOT cheat on your diet. Get some keto sticks so you know you're in ketosis... any cardio you do in ketosis will shed pounds faster than you thought humanly possible.

    There's nothing wrong with doing cardio every day if you're trying to shed flab fast instead trying to gain, just maintain your mass.. Just know if you're doing a keto diet you'll snap back if you don't stay very strict for quite some time afterwards... and its not good for you... but that doesn't stop me from doing it if I need to get skinny fast
    I did this for a little bit and literally lost a **** load of muscle FAST. My arms went from big and muscular to SMALL, although very lean. So I'm scared to go on a low carb diet for a long amount of time, and I know it's not good for muscle and strength at all. Also it's extremely difficult to follow because most foods contain carbs, and eating meat and vegetables all day can really drive me insane.

    Has anyone have any success with carb cycling?
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    If you lift heavy in the PM and you'r taking all your supps you shouldn't lose too much. Ive actually done this more than once and gained mass be eating a **** ton of bacon, steak, chicken, and eggs and ****. Very few veggies... some diet soda and / or diet jello for sweet cravings- and keep the splenda on hand

    But yeah. it sucks bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReBilly View Post
    If you lift heavy in the PM and you'r taking all your supps you shouldn't lose too much. Ive actually done this more than once and gained mass be eating a **** ton of bacon, steak, chicken, and eggs and ****. Very few veggies... some diet soda and / or diet jello for sweet cravings- and keep the splenda on hand

    But yeah. it sucks bad
    bacon?? really? would that be beneficial or detrimental to fat loss? I would LOVE to add bacon in my zero carb days i guess since the body tends to turn to ketosis...but i'm a bit skeptical on how effective that would be for fat loss.

    diet dr. pepper rocks my socks. it tastes almost like regular dr. pepper!
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    BCAA's!!!


    I will offer my suggestions if you don’tmind:

    Ok I weigh about 170-175 and have some fat on my frame. My stomach and chest carry the most amount of fat around my body, with my legs and arms being very lean. My question is: How much is too much cardio? I see some recommend doing 5x week, some 3x week, and some say don't do any at all!! I want to preserve as much muscle mass as possible and I don't want to be SKINNY, I just want to be SHREDDED AND MUSCULAR (steroids anyone? lol) I ultimately want to lean down to see if the chest fat I have is fat and not gyno since i've done a few cycles in the past. I carb cycle for my diet with 2 days high carb, 2 days low carb, and 3 days zero carb.

    The first thing I will suggest is addressing where you specifically store your fat. Since your fat is in your belly and chest that indicates that cortisol and testosterone may play a part in your fat deposition. My dietary/supplement suggestions:
    • Sleep!!! Often overlooked and under appreciated...8 hours of quality sleep for body recomp and proper gh release
    • High omega 3's of course in proper balance
    • BCAA's!!! Based on your training protocol BCAA's should be always be consumed peri workout. You and BCAA's really need to spend quality time, walks on the beach, family get togethers, weekend get aways.... I think you get my point
    • Yohimbine, specifically which which is found in OEP, will target alpha-2 adrenoreceptors that are in your ab area.
    • Of course anti oxidants are a must with your training protocol as I am sure you are aware
    • Adaptogens would be a good consideration based on your goals and training protocol. Since you doing fasted cardio in the morning where cortisol can be at its highest, this would be a welcomed addition to assist in your recomp!


    If you are employing all of these strategies already then bravo


    Monday: High Carb Day (6 Meals with 50g each meal)
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Chest and Abs PM


    The 40 could be cut to 30 more intense if you’re looking to preserve muscle. The longer the duration of the fasted cardio the higher the risk of losing lean body mass in my opinion



    Tuesday: Zero Carb (Aim for zero carbs but realistically <20 grams day)
    Back and Abs PM


    Wow, 20 grams. That’s only enough for the brain; the liver gets nothing not to mention your muscle. You must have sold discipline.

    You could increase the carbs and use a product like Anabolic Pump to help power through workouts without threatening your fat loss goals. This will also keep you from feeling the normal lows associated with low carb diets. You won't have to trouble yourself being concerned about being in ketosis as AP will allow you to consume moderate carbs while still burning fat. The product allowed me to keep carbs and still reduce body fat with minimal effort.



    Wednesday: Low Carb (50g Breakfast, Pre-workout, post-workout)
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Shoulders and Abs PM


    Is your protein source a shake or whole food based?

    Thursday: Zero Carb
    40 Minutes Cardio


    Friday: High Carb
    40 Minutes Cardio AM
    Arms and Abs PM


    I notice that you chose your high carb day to be arms, it might be more beneficial to have your high carb day during a leg day...just a suggestion

    Saturday: Zero Carb
    Legs


    Sunday: Low Carb
    Off


    One day off wow. That is tough on the cns and your body overall. I bring this up again; I am interested in your strategy for reducing cortisol and preventing breakdown. Your protein is high, which can also stress the body, but what supps are you taking to reduce all of this stress. We only breakdown to build up so what is your strategy there? If you simply left out all of your supps then please disregard the statements above.



    Seem like a good training Regime? Any tweaking necessary
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    Hey jdhil90

    You have already received some good reviews of your cardio regime, but I am interested in the intensity of your training? How many % of your maximum Heartbeat rate?
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    Swear to god bro, bacon all day long if you're on a zero carb diet and you'll STILL shed mad weight! But you MUST be in ketosis or you're really screwing yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    bacon?? really? would that be beneficial or detrimental to fat loss? I would LOVE to add bacon in my zero carb days i guess since the body tends to turn to ketosis...but i'm a bit skeptical on how effective that would be for fat loss.

    diet dr. pepper rocks my socks. it tastes almost like regular dr. pepper!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOG View Post
    Hey jdhil90

    You have already received some good reviews of your cardio regime, but I am interested in the intensity of your training? How many % of your maximum Heartbeat rate?
    I do the beachbody insanity program. It's basically HIIT with minimal rest and very hard intensity. I've never sweated as much doing cardio. I don't know how much my heart rate is but I'm sure it's pretty up there as I find myself wheezing.
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    Thanks aviad for your input. I actually take a prtoein shake and controlled labs white flood before my cardio and weight training so it's not fasted. I drink green tea daily for my anti oxidants. I am not consuming any fish oil ATM but will probably pick some up today as well as svication xtend for my BCAAs. I actually ordered some OEP and alpha-t2 as well as YOhimburn ES for the chest and stomach.

    Current supp are:
    protein
    white flood
    orange triad
    turmeric
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    I do the beachbody insanity program. It's basically HIIT with minimal rest and very hard intensity. I've never sweated as much doing cardio. I don't know how much my heart rate is but I'm sure it's pretty up there as I find myself wheezing.
    Over the years I have read about many different types of "fat burn" methods, where many sources tells us that High intensity is the best for losing weight. You have the guerrilla cardio (Tabata) together with many others. One thing you should know is when your cardiotraining primarily consist of high intensity your body will primarily burn Carbs. That is because carbs are not stored like prot. and fat in the body, there is also a limit to how much karbs any individual can store (about 2000 -3000 kacl).

    Carbs are primarily "stored" in the bloodstream after it is broken down to glucose and also some small amounts are stored in the liver. My point is that since carbs is a much more accessible source of energy your body will primarily burn carbs when you are conducting high intensity training. Also fat burning is a much harder process for your body then burning carbs.
    Therefore farburning training should have a low intensity, under 65 % of your Heartbeat maximum. There are also other benefits of low intensity cardio:
    - increased development of the tiniest blood vessels. Which in turn has alot for positiv effects.
    - Your body will adapt a better fat burning capacity
    - Cardio training in general has a bad effect on musclebuilding, but higher intensity will have a even worse effect since it will inflict systemic fatigue (strain) compared with training that have a lower intensity. In turn this strain will affect your muscular training workouts negatively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    Has anyone have any success with carb cycling?
    Carb cycling is my preffered method of weight loss paired with with 100 cal/day deductions every week on the diet. Eventually around week 10-12 I end up in ketosis anyway

    It's not more or less effective than traditional keto diets, but it's upside is that I don't turn into chucky cheese as soon as I get off the diet like most ketoheads I know.

    Low intensity cardio is the way to go IMO. Save the glycogen for the lift.
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    I didn't read all of this since I'm at work, but here's my two cents. Sorry if I basically repeat a few of you guys.

    If you go with the diet you plan on, aka a modified keto, then eat more protein than you have in your life. Also, lift the same amount of weight as before you start the diet. In order to maintain that muscle mass, you need to keep your protein intake high, and weight lifting the same. If either decline, then so will your muscle mass. Remember that training as heavy as normal will be uber difficult with a keto style diet, as you will have no carbs to burn for energy. Your body can't metabolize fat as quick as carbs (if I'm not mistaken). With that in mind, keep your training as hard as before you started your keto diet, and your body will eventually adapt and be able to burn the fat quicker for energy, and you will feel better all day over time.

    Also, remember that carbless diets make you feel really Sh***y, and it's not going to be the most fun experience. Some people do well on keto style diets, and some people not so well (meaning mentality, mood swings, and energy levels). Some people won't maintain muscle mass easy on low carb diets, and some can gain muscle on them when they fine tune it for their body. Everyone is different, so just keep in mind that if you do start to go crazy, and have no energy etc., that you get some carbs in you. I would highly recommend the "180 Diet" as it uses 180g of carbs as the work horse. I've yet to use it personally, but do know that many people have and had good results from it. If you'd like, pm me and I can give you a run down of the 180 for reference.

    Hope this helps you figure things out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOG View Post
    Over the years I have read about many different types of "fat burn" methods, where many sources tells us that High intensity is the best for losing weight. You have the guerrilla cardio (Tabata) together with many others. One thing you should know is when your cardiotraining primarily consist of high intensity your body will primarily burn Carbs. That is because carbs are not stored like prot. and fat in the body, there is also a limit to how much karbs any individual can store (about 2000 -3000 kacl).

    Carbs are primarily "stored" in the bloodstream after it is broken down to glucose and also some small amounts are stored in the liver. My point is that since carbs is a much more accessible source of energy your body will primarily burn carbs when you are conducting high intensity training. Also fat burning is a much harder process for your body then burning carbs.
    Therefore farburning training should have a low intensity, under 65 % of your Heartbeat maximum. There are also other benefits of low intensity cardio:
    - increased development of the tiniest blood vessels. Which in turn has alot for positiv effects.
    - Your body will adapt a better fat burning capacity
    - Cardio training in general has a bad effect on musclebuilding, but higher intensity will have a even worse effect since it will inflict systemic fatigue (strain) compared with training that have a lower intensity. In turn this strain will affect your muscular training workouts negatively.
    Ok but how about sprinters who run short distances at very high intensity, they are usually shredded and muscular, whereas long distance runners are skinny and flabby. And if you are doing high intensity cardio in the morning with only a protein shake, wouldn't it be burning fat instead of carbs? But you do make a point, since I have lost a lot of fat by doing a lot of jogging, but I also lost muscle. How much time of short intensity cardio do you recommend and why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    Ok but how about sprinters who run short distances at very high intensity, they are usually shredded and muscular, whereas long distance runners are skinny and flabby?
    There are many ways one can explain this, here is a few:

    Every human has genetics which pretty much determine what kind of athlete they can become. If you look at sprinters they have greater amount of "fasts twitch" muscles (FTM) than "slow twitch" muscle (STM) fibers. Long distance runners has the opposite. You, me and every other human has a certain number of both types. However your not able to decrease or increase this default, even though training can help you gain benefits of each type.
    FTM can deliver more power and fast energy burst then STM, drawback is that they cannot maintain this for long periods of time. Hence individuals with FTM are best for anaerobic activities like sprinting or body building. By working FTW you also you release growth hormone and as a fact can explain why sprinters has more muscles (+low bf) compared to long distance runners. Also FTM has a grater size (volume) then STM, since they generate a greater amount force.

    Long distance runners are skinny because their body needs greater amounts of energy then sprinters. Also their muscles (stm) are smaller in size compared FTMs.

    Long distance runners are flabby? Well I don't know of may distance runners who are flabby, but if you know or have seen anybody who is. I guess that they once was fat, lost weight and now have excessive skin around their waist:-)

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    And if you are doing high intensity cardio in the morning with only a protein shake, wouldn't it be burning fat instead of carbs?
    I have never read that a protein shake will "force" your body to burn fat instead of carb. Therefor I cannot comment on this, but one shouldn't rule out that you are right.

    All the sources Ive read trough says that it is the workout intensity that causes your body to burn fat or carbs. In addition to this I would like to add that high intensity cardio will effect your BMR in a positive way. This is hard to explain, but your BMR curve will have a steeper incline days you do high intensity workout, compared to days you are not doing that kind of cardio. Resulting in a higher overall energy consumption.

    what is the point of drinking a protein shake before workouts in general? Because some of the amino acids e.g Glutamine and BCAAs has anti catabolic effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    How much time of short intensity cardio do you recommend and why?
    Since your goal is to lose Bf, the type of short intensity cardio is not that important in my opinion. That said I would limit that kind of cardio training to max 2 workouts a week with a few days of spacing in between. This is because high intensity cardio is very hard for your body and it takes time to recover. I would also vary between different types of intervals, just to shock you body.

    A lot of bad English\American language here, but hope you understand..
    Last edited by NOG; 06-12-2010 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Spelling disorder
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOG View Post
    There are many ways one can explain this, here is a few:

    Every human has genetics which pretty much determine what kind of athlete they can become. If you look at sprinters they have greater amount of "fasts twitch" muscles (FTM) than "slow twitch" muscle (STM) fibers. Long distance runners has the opposite. You, me and every other human has a certain number of both types. However your not able to decrease or increase this default, even though training can help you gain benefits of each type.
    FTM can deliver more power and fast energy burst then STM, drawback is that they cannot maintain this for long periods of time. Hence individuals with FTM are best for anaerobic activities like sprinting or body building. By working FTW you also you release growth hormone and as a fact can explain why sprinters has more muscles (+low bf) compared to long distance runners. Also FTM has a grater size (volume) then STM, since they generate a greater amount force.

    Long distance runners are skinny because their body needs greater amounts of energy then sprinters. Also their muscles (stm) are smaller in size compared FTMs.

    Long distance runners are flabby? Well I don't know of may distance runners who are flabby, but if you know or have seen anybody who is. I guess that they once was fat, lost weight and now have excessive skin around their waist:-)


    I have never read that a protein shake will "force" your body to burn fat instead of carb. Therefor I cannot comment on this, but one shouldn't rule out that you are right.

    All the sources Ive read trough says that it is the workout intensity that causes your body to burn fat or carbs. In addition to this I would like to add that high intensity cardio will effect your BMR in a positive way. This is hard to explain, but your BMR curve will have a steeper incline days you do high intensity workout, compared to days you are not doing that kind of cardio. Resulting in a higher overall energy consumption.

    what is the point of drinking a protein shake before workouts in general? Because some of the amino acids e.g Glutamine and BCAAs has anti catabolic effects.


    Since your goal is to lose Bf, the type of short intensity cardio is not that important in my opinion. That said I would limit that kind of cardio training to max 2 workouts a week with a few days of spacing in between. This is because high intensity cardio is very hard for your body and it takes time to recover. I would also vary between different types of intervals, just to shock you body.

    A lot of bad English\American language here, but hope you understand..
    A very interesting read. I think the best approach to this cardio debate would be to include BOTH types of cardio throughout the week. HIIT 2x and Long Duration 2-3x week would probably be the best way to burn fat, in my opinion, along with weight training of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    A very interesting read. I think the best approach to this cardio debate would be to include BOTH types of cardio throughout the week. HIIT 2x and Long Duration 2-3x week would probably be the best way to burn fat, in my opinion, along with weight training of course.
    I totally agree with you. Variety is the key in order to maintain progression.
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    Agreed. I do high intensity sprint training 1-2x a week, long distance ( > 1 hour) 1-2x a week, and normal cardio every other day. Also weights 5-7 days a week. Great results, even for a beer drinker who eats crappy food too frequently

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhil90 View Post
    A very interesting read. I think the best approach to this cardio debate would be to include BOTH types of cardio throughout the week. HIIT 2x and Long Duration 2-3x week would probably be the best way to burn fat, in my opinion, along with weight training of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReBilly View Post
    Agreed. I do high intensity sprint training 1-2x a week, long distance ( > 1 hour) 1-2x a week, and normal cardio every other day. Also weights 5-7 days a week. Great results, even for a beer drinker who eats crappy food too frequently
    Yeah that's what I've been doing lately and its been working pretty well. The only downfall is I started taking the OEP+Alpha T-2 stack along with some yohimburn es and high intensity training is too intense because it throws my heart rate way too high and i almost get kind of a headache. so now I've just been doing low intensity cardio in the mornings and only do high intensity (1 minute sprint 1 minute walk) intervals after my weight lifting. I've been getting pretty lean and I can pretty good difference in my body in only after 2 weeks!

    Also the <20 carb days were way too tough so i switched those to about 50-70 grams carbs a day. so all I did was drop the high carb days to about 200 grams carbs a day and medium carb is 150 grams carbs a day. This way I don't feel like **** all day on my low carb days and i still am seeing results.
  

  
 

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