Im currently at 210 and looking to get down to about 195; ive used phentermine before in the past and have had good sucess with it. What are your thoughts on phentermine?
+ and -'s?
15 lbs should come off through diet. My thought on phen is when you dont eat you are gonna lose muscle for sure. Everyone I know that has used it says they loose all appetite, not good in my opinion but it all depends on what your goals are I guess
Yeah when i took it before i made sure that i was eating clean and plenty of protiens. I just seem to have hit that platuea that i cant get down anymore.
my wife was on that after our first child was born...im shocked the DR even prescribed it to her, she wasnt really that overweight. anyway she dropped 20 lbs in 6wks with no cardio and a relatively clean diet. Made her bitchy as hell when she was on it.
what supplements contain phen or is it only saw in bulk?
phentermine is a lot like meth, not as strong but very similar in a lot of ways.
It is an appetite suppressant and a metabolism booster.
The reason its not used much is cause its very addictive.
I take d-amphetamine/dexedrine for ADHD (CII) so here is my $.02.
Phentermine is CIV and reasonably effective (I am guessing based on my research). Didrex (benzphetamine) is CIII and stronger than phentermine for weight loss (you will fail a drug test though as you excrete d-amphetamine and d-methamphetamine/meth). The strongest one that is still used for weight loss is phenmetrazine (CIII) (not phendimetrazine-CII-and not marketed anymore due to addictivess-the Beatles even made a song about it). All of these drugs are amphetamines or amphetamine-derivatives and weaker than the CII amphetamines (adderall which is just a concoction of 6 or so different d- and l- amphet salts; d-amphet/dex; d-methamphet-desoxyn).
The CIII and CIV's are are still used for weight loss (phentermine, didrex, phenmetrazine, diethylpropion, etc) in obese people to some extent.
Funnily enough, Desoxyn/d-methamp/meth 5mg is still FDA approved for ADHD, narcolepsy (so far the same as the other CII amphetamines), and...weight loss in obese people). But psychiatrists rarely use this drug for ADHD, it is much more neurotoxic than the other ampehtamines due to its increased lipid solubility and blood-brain barrier penetration, etc), so no doctor in his right mind (Michael Jackson's doctors' notwithstanding) would ever use it for weight loss today. It is highly addicitive if there is any question about it. Most people who take the non-script version even at a low dose can't sleep for the first 3 days in a row and then they are exhausted for weeks, so a terrible diet drug to boot. That starts the endless cycle (much worse mentality than steroid endless cycles) that can happen with any of the CII ampehtamines and to a much lesser extent the CIII and CIVs.
They quit using the CII amphetamines for weight loss in the 70's because they are very addictive for such purposes (highly effective and higly dose-dependent effect) + once you become tolerant to the anorectic effect (appetite decrease) and the drugs stop exerting their weight loss effects via other mechanisms (hypothalamic; release of catecholamines, etc), usually after just a few weeks, the drug has to be terminated (no more effect on weight, generally) or the dose increased. Increasing the dose is not allowed medically (FDA), and it works and you can lose 10+ lbs in a month, but it will be fat and muscle, esp. if you are dieting (which is obviously counterproductive to your metabolism). Also, if you weren't addicted before, you would be then. So medically speaking, they just don't do a lot for weight loss because of all the constraints (controlled substance, limited results at a low dose for 4 weeks, can't increase the dose, risk of dependence, etc).
On the other side of things, taking d-amphetamine daily seems to have long-term effects on increasing metabolism-like +750 cal/day BMR after 3 years for me. I am sedentary (don't work out or do cardio or anything physical really), a few years shy of 30, and my BMR is 3250 cal/day. I can and do eat well; that is the first effect to go away with any of these drugs-appetite suppression though Adderall is and meth are slightly different animals) and in the past and present I have made great gains in the gym with and withoout steroids and gains outside of the gym with steroids (for medical reasons-I am not that lazy). But the catch is that my BMR is very high and so I have to eat like a fool to gain and maintain my weight.
And not working out, if you are in a calorie deficit, drugs like Adderall (I took most of the CIIs at some point) will strip muscle and fat off of you quickly and it seems to stabilize when you get used to the drug (long time for adderall) and when you are about 140lbs of weakness. The appetite suppression is so profound with most of the CIIs that you risk malnutrition (anorexia tends to do that) and even vitamin deficiencies.
I honestly don't think that any amphetamines or strong derivatives (even phentermine) are useful for weight loss in a person who isn't more fat than muscle, if you want to retain most of your muscle (and you do).
I would be much more inclined to use a topical like ThermaDerm for the gut if that is a problem area and use stimulant stacks that don't cross the blood-brain barrier (synephrine, pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, caffeine, etc) if you can tolerate them and need a system-wide effect-their more modest effects are also more sustainable and less damaging to your lean tissue mass. Also, some green tea extract (a good product version anyway) would help. I know that wasn't the question, but I think amphets just aren't useful to relatively fit people (not fat as hell, pardon the expression) looking to lose a few lbs of fat.
(1) I remembered that PEA/Phenethylamine is a popular stimulant type weight lose supp (with the dosage in the 100's of mg's); never tried it, but may be worth a shot. I venture to guess that some people probably don't know how close PEA is to amphetamine, so see below if interested. It's worth noting in general b/c it illustrates for say oral PS/PH users how a simple chemical modification can dramatically change a drug's properties and dosage (amphetamines are dosed in the 5-10mg/dose range).
(2) d-amphetamine/dexedrine and d/l-amphetamine/adderall in the unconjugated form (the base like test suspension instead of test enanthate) are simply d- or l- or d/l-"alpha-methyl-phenethylamine". Clever, huh? As a parallel, Premarin (a pro-estrogen with 100+ conjugated forms of estrogens for Post-menopausal women) got its name from the fact that it is extracted from PREgnant MARe urINe. LOL!
(3) d/l-amphetamine unconjugated is 1/2 (d=dextro/dextrorotary)-hence dextroampehtamine. d and r are the same thing-just means right-handed stereoisomer which is a mirror image of the l-isomer/levoamphetamine, the other 1/2. The end result might also be just one isomer or the other, or require conversion of one isomer to the other to get 100% of one isomer (by the chemical manufacturers). This may be of interest to you from the perspective of the various supplements on the market (read on).
(4) By analogy, R-ALA versus ALA which is the racemic (R/L-ALA), less potent version. Aside from marketing and supp company shadeyness (sp?), there is consequently sometimes a legitimately increased cost to produce say R-ALA instead of plain ALA/R,L-ALA (as an example).
(5) d or l or d/l-methamphetamine is simply d or l or d/l-"alpha-dimethylphenethylamine". Refer to (2) above and you still get "amphetamine" as the name extracted from the above nomenclature. But the 2nd methyl group is in a different position, so they got really smart and just said "methyl" + "amphetamine" = "methamphetamine". It can be rewritten probably to "<number position>methyl-alpha-<number>methyl-phenethylamine" in which case the name pops right out. Again, why I do mention all this technical blah that probably doesn't interest many folks? Well, see the comment below. BTW, I read way too many organic chem and medline articles in college!
(6) The infamous Superdrol/methylmasteron/methyldrostanolone follows the pattern of double methylation in a very crude parallel to the amphetamine/methamphetamine relationship. Masteron/Drostanolone is an injectable and not really considered to be too liver toxic (like injectable dbol and winny are both liver toxic and both 17-alpha-methylated whether oral or IM; IM just bypasses the first pass liver metabolism thus preventing as much strain as the oral and producing a more potent effect).
But Masteron is already methylated, just at the 2-position (so 2-methyl I think) which is far less toxic than the 17 position. So like amphetamine, Masteron is already methylated, just not in the typical way (17aa), and the injectable isn't called methylmasteron.
However, when you 17-alpha-methylate Masteron, as you probably know, you get Superdrol. And like methamphetamine, even though it is dimethylated, it finally gets a methyl added to its common name (as it should). Superdrol is extra liver toxic as is dimethazine which is two superdrol molecules with an azine (Nitrogen/N3) bridge holding them together. This is probably due to a combination of things, but perhaps foremost is that it is a dimethylated oral steroid (almost like taking two methyl orals at once which is why stacking superdrol with another methyl oral is really asking for it). It is written as 2,17-alpha-dimethyl-... I don't remember the rest of it-that is the first part anyway, and you can write chemical names a hundred different ways as the supp companies figured out long ago.
(7) Lastly, I still can't post links and I have rambled on for far too long, but you can google "erowid" and navigate to the amphetamines section under plants and drugs for loads of info. You can also search by pharmaceutical drug name and you will find tons of "practical" information about the amphetamines and all the diet drugs mentioned in this thread. Some of the best info is found in article links and esp. "trip reports" where someone gives their weight and age and takes say 5 phentermine tablets to get high (or try) and reports if it was good/bad/ok/went to the hospital/friend died/addiction/etc (no kidding), as well as subjective comments and comparisons to other stimulants. You can even find trip reports on ephedrine there (morons OD'ing on ephedrine)!
I hope I didn't bore anyone to tears.