This can't be normal

[Althalus]

I'm doing a CKD plan, taking ECA (currently two doses a day each one @ 25mg E 200mg C 81mg A EOD). ECA dose times are when I first wake up, then 30 minutes before my workout (always make sure it is 4 hours or longer after my first dose). I take BCAAs 30 minutes before (5:2.5:2.5), during (5:2.5:2.5) and after (2.5:1.25:1.25+24g protein shake) my workouts, and a multi-vitamin+fish oil with my first meal of the day. My workout plan:

Sunday - Fasted morning LISS cardio. 30 minutes on an inclined treadmill ~10-11 degrees/whatever the setting is supposed to dictate, at a 3.0-3.5 walk.
Monday - Chest/triceps. HIIT cardio immediately afterwards. 4 minute jog, four "reps" (each rep = 30 seconds sprint, 30 seconds jog), then a 4 minute cooldown jog.
Tuesday - Back/biceps. HIIT.
Wednesday - Fasted morning LISS cardio.
Thursday - Legs/abs. HIIT.
Friday - Shoulders/traps. HIIT.
Saturday - Nada.

I've only been doing this since last Monday (August 31st) and I've gone from 200lbs 14% body fat to 190 12%. I weighed myself after my cardio session on Wednesday of last week and this week, and last week I was at 191 11%, but this week I was 187 11.5%. I am practically hemorrhaging muscle mass/weight in general at this rate, and I can't figure out why I'm losing so much muscle. There's no way this can be healthy, and I need help figuring out what exactly is going wrong here. My body is producing plenty of ketones, and my diet should be on track (all my meals are a combination of one from A and one from B):

A) Tuna, egg whites, lean chicken.
B) Olive oil, peanut butter.

I eat 5-6 times a day, getting about 1500~1600 calories per day. I counted all the protein and I'm getting enough of that per day, but I'm wondering if it's due to me not getting enough fats in the day (not entirely sure about those #s)? Anyone have any suggestions if that is the case? I can't think of any ways to add more fat without adding excessively more amounts of calories. My other thought is that too much cardio is the culprit, in which case, what days should I cut it? Alternatively, will I gain back some or most of this LBM when I do my refeed/get back in to a regular diet? I know a lack of carbs makes your muscles appear less full, but I'm unaware of how much that changes your overall LBM weight.

Or should I just cut my losses at this point and go back to a bulking cycle at the end of the week? I'm really unsure of what to do at this point, but it doesn't seem like this is "working" for me. If you have any additional questions/want things expanded upon, please don't hesitate to ask them. Thanks for any and all help.

[sonicwaste]

Worry not my brother, you aren't losing muscle mass as long as you are getting your bodyweight in protein and doing the proper re-feeds.

Your weight lost is not all fat. It is water and glycogen. Glycogen is actually pretty weight heavy. You've probably lost 1-2lbs of fat, 7-8lbs water, 3-4lbs from glycogen depletion.

When you are depleted like you are, you are going to look flat and bare. You will feel like you are burning muscle but you aren't.

If you are cutting your cals that severly, you need to make sure you only do it for like 4 days max.

What are you doing for your re-feeds? and how often?

[Willybeme]

If you went from bulk to cut - some water weight. If you went from regular diet with carbs to ckd - more water weight. If you just started eca - more water weight. So im guessing you just lost a **** ton of water weight. Dont ever ever get worried about weight on very low carb diets during the regular diet days. You will see the comeback in weight after the carb-up i guarantee it.

[sonicwaste]

When I go from carb load to depletion I can drop up to 12lbs of water/glycogen/fat mix in 1 week. After a carb-up I might gain 10lbs back and repeat the process.

[Althalus]

Well thanks for the reassurance guys. I had figured -some- of it was water weight, but didn't realize just how much water weight our bodies have, and how fast it can be lost. I'm doing refeeds every Friday after my workout up until Saturday at midnight. Would it be advisable to up my calories during the normal diet days then, just to be safe? Somewhere in the 1800~1900 range perhaps?

[sonicwaste]

Well thanks for the reassurance guys. I had figured -some- of it was water weight, but didn't realize just how much water weight our bodies have, and how fast it can be lost. I'm doing refeeds every Friday after my workout up until Saturday at midnight. Would it be advisable to up my calories during the normal diet days then, just to be safe? Somewhere in the 1800~1900 range perhaps?

No, you could even cut calories more. You could go as low as 1300 cals for 3-4 days, then re-feed, the maintenance for 1 day, then maintenance - 20% then back to severe restriction.

[youngandfree]

No, you could even cut calories more. You could go as low as 1300 cals for 3-4 days, then re-feed, the maintenance for 1 day, then maintenance - 20% then back to severe restriction.

I disagree with going any lower on cals. I'm 173 today doing CKD. I carb load on saturday. I'm still losing on 2100 cals on low carb days and prob 3500+ on carb day. Yesterday I had about 160P and 130-140F. I shoot for 60% minimum of fat. Ideally it should be 70/30 fat/protein. When I first started, didn't have enough fat. I upped my cals and increased the percentage of fat and started losing. Having a high enough percentage of fat is key.

Bump it to 2000 cals, 140g fat and 160g protein with less than 30g carbs.
To help account with water weight fluctuations, watch you weight on the morning of carb day. Wake up, piss, then weigh before putting anything in your mouth. That's your final depleted weight before starting carb up. That weight should only go down 1-2lbs a week. The rest is water fluctuations and don't matter much. I recommend not to go over 4-5lbs gained during carb up because it can make it a bit tougher to stay on schedule.
Crazyfool posted a formula to estimate amount of weight gain. Take total cars consumed, multiply by 4 to get carb cals. Then divide by 16, then divide again by 28. Round that to next whole number and is pretty darn close.
This weekend, I had 405 carbs, and about 160 protein and about 40g Fat. Formula equaled 3.62 and I gained 4lbs exactly.

I say up the cals and fat and keep your workouts the way they are. You can have a few more cals on Keto and still make progress.

[Althalus]

To help account with water weight fluctuations, watch you weight on the morning of carb day. Wake up, piss, then weigh before putting anything in your mouth. That's your final depleted weight before starting carb up. That weight should only go down 1-2lbs a week. The rest is water fluctuations and don't matter much. I recommend not to go over 4-5lbs gained during carb up because it can make it a bit tougher to stay on schedule.

I say up the cals and fat and keep your workouts the way they are. You can have a few more cals on Keto and still make progress.

Alright, will do to both of those. Giving an extra 100 calories to each meal adds a ton of freedom to get more fat in my diet. Thanks again for the help guys.

[sonicwaste]

I disagree with going any lower on cals. I'm 173 today doing CKD. I carb load on saturday. I'm still losing on 2100 cals on low carb days and prob 3500+ on carb day. Yesterday I had about 160P and 130-140F. I shoot for 60% minimum of fat. Ideally it should be 70/30 fat/protein. When I first started, didn't have enough fat. I upped my cals and increased the percentage of fat and started losing. Having a high enough percentage of fat is key.

Bump it to 2000 cals, 140g fat and 160g protein with less than 30g carbs.
To help account with water weight fluctuations, watch you weight on the morning of carb day. Wake up, piss, then weigh before putting anything in your mouth. That's your final depleted weight before starting carb up. That weight should only go down 1-2lbs a week. The rest is water fluctuations and don't matter much. I recommend not to go over 4-5lbs gained during carb up because it can make it a bit tougher to stay on schedule.
Crazyfool posted a formula to estimate amount of weight gain. Take total cars consumed, multiply by 4 to get carb cals. Then divide by 16, then divide again by 28. Round that to next whole number and is pretty darn close.
This weekend, I had 405 carbs, and about 160 protein and about 40g Fat. Formula equaled 3.62 and I gained 4lbs exactly.

I say up the cals and fat and keep your workouts the way they are. You can have a few more cals on Keto and still make progress.

A few weeks ago I would have disagreed with me too. I was stuck hovering around 9% bodyfat. Stuck big time.

Then I found the UD 2. Which stipulates to cut calories to 1/2 of maintenance for 3.5 days, then carb load, then maintenance or slight restriction for 2 days. Since doing this, the body fat is starting to drop again.

I agree with you though for the most part. But sometimes you have to severly restrict to bust out of a hump.

[youngandfree]

A few weeks ago I would have disagreed with me too. I was stuck hovering around 9% bodyfat. Stuck big time.

Then I found the UD 2. Which stipulates to cut calories to 1/2 of maintenance for 3.5 days, then carb load, then maintenance or slight restriction for 2 days. Since doing this, the body fat is starting to drop again.

I agree with you though for the most part. But sometimes you have to severly restrict to bust out of a hump.

I agree with this. But he is basically just starting out on this journey so far. He hasn't said that he has been stuck for a while, so this advice would come in handy down the road.